Alexandra Waterbury Instagram Post

[SporkGoddess]

I am very much against cancel culture and viewing this sort of thing from a black and white framework. I'm not telling people to boycott the production. I'm saying that I personally would boycott it for this reason and explaining why some of us are angry about this casting. It basically says that casting this man is more important than minimizing the discomfort of women. I concede that he may not have apologized because of the ongoing legal situation, but maybe that's another reason for him to lay low until this is over. 

Again, he's in the public eye. And this sort of behavior impacts all women as a whole, even if it doesn't affect us personally. Men sharing nude photos of women, unless explicitly and affirmatively consensual, is NOT okay. And what if someone Amar had shared the photo with had posted it to the internet? From what I've seen in discussions about this (not this thread specifically), people seem more upset that she took the photo than that Amar shared it.

[Highland Guy]

Have there been other speaking events?  More to come?

 

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/breaking-the-metoo-silence-in-ballet-alexandra-waterbury-at-the-forum-registration-69684218373#

[trpguyy]

“ . I concede that he may not have apologized because of the ongoing legal situation, but maybe that's another reason for him to lay low until this is over.“

Isn’t that precisely what he’s doing by not commenting, setting his social media settings to private, and just showing up to work and doing his job? Or do you mean he shouldn’t be working? How long should somebody accused of viewing and sharing pornographic material be banned from working?

[SporkGoddess]

Or do you mean he shouldn’t be working? How long should somebody accused of viewing and sharing pornography be banned from working?

Until the case is over, probably. Or maybe choose something that's a little less high profile than a Broadway revival.

For what it's worth, I'm not criticizing him for accepting roles. I'm criticizing productions for casting him.

[pinoyidol2006]

SporkGoddess said: "My understanding of the facts is that the nude photos sent by Amar Ramasar were consentually taken by not consentually distributed."

This is actually quite ambiguous. I re-read Ramasar's instagram post, and he never said that he sent the photos with his girlfriend's consent. Waterbury's amended complaint alleges that his girlfriend did not consent because Ramasar texted something along the lines of his girlfriend getting pissed (paragraph 97). The text itself is unclear if it's referring to getting pissed that he sent her photos or getting pissed that he's receiving photos of other women.

Waterbury's original complaint however does add some context, but the sentence structure is so bad it reads like Finlay sent the "she might get pissed" text instead of Ramasar. The original complaint states that Finlay and Ramasar exchanged several photos of ballet members (which I took to mean more than one NYCB dancer). Ramasar then texts the "[my girlfriend] might get pissed" text, to which Finlay offers to share with both Ramasar and his girlfriend. There's no indication that Finlay sent anything to Ramasar's girlfriend.

The amended complaint removes this context. The amended complaint now also specifically says the pictures exchanged were of a corps member and Waterbury. We know this corps member is Ramasar's girlfriend. As far as the amended complaint goes, Ramasar only received photos of Waterbury and not other NYCB dancers, and Ramasar only sent photos of his girlfriend and not other NYCB dancers.

We don't know if Ramasar told his girlfriend that he received photos of Waterbury or if he obtained her consent before he sent photos of her. If the original complaint is to be believed, one could infer that Ramasar and his girlfriend has a kind of relationship where Finlay felt comfortable enough to make that kind of offer. It's also possible that Finlay's offer was a joke, but the original complaint treats it unironically.

As far as publicly available information goes, this is what we have to go on to judge if Ramasar's girlfriend consented to having her photos sent or not. The fact that his girlfriend stands by him isn't proof that the photos he disseminated were sent with her consent. Similarly, we have no strong evidence that his girlfriend did not consent to her photos being sent to Finlay. What is clear is that Waterbury did not consent to Finlay sending her photos to Ramasar.

[Luminaire2]

Can it not be inferred however; that Ramasar solicited photos, in a trade arrangement? Without himself knowing if those photos were shared in a safe and consensual manner?

He asked for photos; did he not? And accepted them gleefully? Irregardless if he sent Alexandra’s photos, he’s an accessory to the event and has some accountability to be had. Even if our laws haven’t caught up with technology and how easy we share information, the general public has a right to be alarmed that two adults were trading nude photos of women; one of which we know did not consent to this

[Impossible2]

How about the general public realising that if they are stupid enough to allow someone to take nude pictures of them or are willing to send nude pictures of themselves to other people this stuff is going to happen...

[ModernMillie3]

He didn't care about consent, that's what makes him a garbage person. He deserves all the bad press and all the negative comments. He won't die, he will just fine. I will look forward to what happens next month in court, especially to Chase.

He can work of course, but it's not like working in factory or medical office. As an artist, you have to show vulnerability, and I think that would be difficult if you are uncomfortable with a person. The major reason they fired him was because the women at the NYCB refused to partner with him and voiced their concerns. I can't imagine how the very young women in WWS now feel.

Oh, and his gf broke up with him shortly before he moved to Rome. So, there's that. 

[ModernMillie3]

Impossible2 said: "How about the general public realising that if they are stupid enough to allow someone to take nude pictures of them or are willing to send nude pictures of themselves to other people this stuff is going to happen..."

Victim blaming. Adorable. But.....nope. You have absolutely no clue what actually happened in this case. Nothing at all. Then again, your're another man inserting himself in a conversation even though you know zero about what actually happened. 

xxxxxx

[Impossible2]

ModernMillie3 said: "Impossible2 said: "How about the general public realising that if they are stupid enough to allow someone to take nude pictures of them or are willing to send nude pictures of themselves to other people this stuff is going to happen..."

Victim blaming. Adorable. But.....nope. You have absolutely no clue what actually happened in this case. Nothing at all. Then again, your're another man inserting himself in a conversation even though you know zero about what actually happened.

xxxxxx"

Says the person who inserts themselves into every single drama on the forum...

It's not victim blaming, it's called common sense x

[LizzieCurry]

Stop while you’re behind!

[LuPita2]

It's not victim blaming, it's called common sense

No, that's literally victim blaming. 

[JBC3]

Face it. Many (most?) on this thread are entrenched in their positions, so we get post after post tinged with implicit bias.

You can't persuade people who are not open to influence.

[pinoyidol2006]

ModernMillie3 said: "The major reason they fired him was because the women at the NYCB refused to partner with him and voiced their concerns. I can't imagine how the very young women in WWS now feel.

Oh, and his gf broke up with him shortly before he moved to Rome. So, there's that."

This is just factually inaccurate. There were women who voiced their concerns, but there were plenty of women at NYCB who also voiced their support including his most frequent partners in the company.

His girlfriend was in Rome with him when he guested with the Rome Opera Ballet.

"I will look forward to what happens next month in court, especially to Chase."

From reading the complaint, the motions to dismiss, and the defendants' evidence, I think cases against NYCB, SAB, Ramasar, Catazaro, and Longhitano are all likely to get dismissed. I think Finlay is the only one who might go to trial, and he's the only defendant I want to see go to trial.

[LuPita2]

In the articles I read in the New York Times, all the women refused to dance with him at NYCB, which is part of the reason he was fired. There were concerns when he came back, as well. And if you are referring to Sara, they broke up. 

[pinoyidol2006]

LuPita2 said: "In the articles I read in the New York Times, all the women refused to dance with him at NYCB, which is part of the reason he was fired. There were concerns when he came back, as well. And if you are referring to Sara, they broke up."

From NYT (link):

"The company said in a statement on Saturday that after hearing the concerns of dancers, staff members and others in the City Ballet community, it had decided to fire Mr. Ramasar and Mr. Catazaro. (The statement also said the company had already made the decision to fire Mr. Finlay when he resigned.) "

People in the company voiced their concerns which is different from all women in the company refusing to dance with him. In fact, you'll find multiple women in the company who have expressed messages of support for him on social media. I don't intend for this to mean that he is therefore absolutely blameless. I'm just trying to straighten out the facts for those who might be misinformed.

I'm referring to Alexa Maxwell. Sara and Amar had broken up long before the scandal broke. They continued to dance after their breakup, and she was his first partner back upon his reinstatement. The NYT review of that performance was quite disappointed with her for appearing to tacitly approve of his return for appearing happy during the curtain call.

[trpguyy]

“ I can't imagine how the very young women in WWS now feel.”

I don’t know how they feel nor is it right for anyone to assume how they feel, but I imagine that a guy with a lot to lose, everything to prove, and who just went through counseling on how to act in a professional and inclusive environment is probably acting very professional.

[LuPita2]

He's very, very far from absolutely blameless. You clearly know him, are friends with him, or are affiliated with the company. He has caused a lot of pain and has never apologized. He has made people uncomfortable. He has made a young women mortified and humiliated. 

[ModernMillie3]

I don’t know how they feel nor is it right for anyone to assume how they feel, but I imagine that a guy with a lot to lose, everything to prove, and who just went through counseling on how to act in a professional and inclusive environment is probably acting very professional."

You would think that. However, going through counseling just to get your job back doesn't necessarily mean he learned a thing except how to be more careful. That frat boy mentality doesn't leave men like him. He's on his best good boy behavior at this new job though! 

If only he had respected women his whole life instead of just starting that last May......

 

[poisonivy2]

Okay I'm actually friends with some people in the NYCB company. Not going to name sources. But I can tell you that Amar and Zachi received a lot of support within the company while Chase did not. And that is because Amar and Zach repeatedly apologized to the company while Chase did not.

[Highland Guy]

LuPita2 said: "He has made a young women mortified and humiliated."  

So "mortified and humiliated" that she has taken to social media to talk about it?  So "mortified and humiliated" that she traveled cross-country to talk about it at a Forum?  

[bwayphreak234]

ModernMillie3 said: "However, going through counseling just to get your job back doesn't necessarily mean he learned a thing except how to be more careful. That frat boy mentality doesn't leave men like him."

Who are you to say what he has or has not learned? 

 

[ModernMillie3]

No one. That is why I said what I said which was "doesn't necessarily mean he learned a thing".

[pinoyidol2006]

Highland Guy said: "So "mortified and humiliated" that she has taken to social media to talk about it? So "mortified and humiliated" that she traveled cross-country to talk about it at a Forum?"

Waterbury should be allowed to tell her story and express the pain she felt from what happened to her. Let's not make silence be the standard for who was and wasn't humiliated in this situation.

[Luminaire2]

Everyone’s all supportive of victims coming forward and “Me Too” when it doesn’t involve the industry they love/ are involved in. Suddenly everyone’s turning a blind eye.

Oi.