New Broadway Theater- Page 2

[amoni]

Posted: 12/15/19 at 1:20pm

" Not having been in Manhattan for almost 4 years I have to ask. What happened to the old Times Square which was to have been used for a few different projects all of which died on the vine."

 

From everything I have heard The Times Square can't go legit because when Garth Drabinsky took over the space occupied by the The Apollo and Lyric, he took up the block on 43rd St. and left no room for a loading dock to the Times Sq. Apparently the city won't allow a loading dock on 42nd St.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 12/15/19 at 2:12pm

RippedMan said: "It does seem odd that it's just sitting there in all its glory and not used. Maybe ATG could talk to them? It just seems a waste. A church doesn't need a theater like that."

I reckon the Times Square Church grosses more than most Broadway houses.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/15/19 at 8:05pm

Re theatre size, I think we don't need any more barns like the Gershwin, Marquis, and New Amsterdam. But I do think that we could use more theatres comparable to the seemingly always in demand Shubert, Imperial, Neil Simon, Hershfeld.  I am pretty sure that this is in the 1,300 to 1,500 seat range.  I may be in the majority, but I feel that there are a lot of musicals that have taken over theatres that have historically been targeted mostly for plays.  (Think CFA, DEH, even Waitress and (historically) BOM theatres.  Perhaps they could have targeted 1,200 seat theatres, if there were some, and left the traditional non-musical houses for more non-musicals.  So, maybe I'd say that I think the gap may be better filled by a few 1,200 - 1,400 seat theatres.  

I know there are several potential flaws / assumptions / questions that make that a very complicated issue:

-- Is there a predictable saturation point in terms of number of audience attendees per week or is it more impacted by the product?

-- Is there enough demand by non-musicals for theatres that may not be available during prime theatre going months (vs. mid-July (when the last of the all-too-common limited engagements close, and leave a bunch of empty theatres) until the fall glut begin, when all the new limited engagements take over)?

-- Will the continued increase in quality of particularly Netflix and Amazon Prime dramas play a factor in reducing audiences for serious offerings, given the prices?  (There are lots of potential theatergoers out there who really don't know that for shows that are not selling out, it is fairly easy to get tickets in advance with more reasonable, though not necessarily great prices).

-- Are the Majestic, Minskoff, Gershwin, Brooks Atkinson, and Ambassador Theatres pretty much out of commission for the next decade? twenty years?  How many will add to that list, e.g., Moulin Rouge (too early to tell), Hadestown (i don't really think so, but it is a monster hit right now), TKAM (if it eventually moves to a smaller theatre).

-- Have we arrived at the time where any real hit is going to run for 5 years?

-- Will tourism continue to be a significant player (dramatically more than it was decades ago) or will recession / a second Trump administration negatively impact that (I try to get my hatred of Trump in whenever I feel it is even remotely possibility), i.e., how dependable will tourism be in the future?

-- Will theatre prices ever get in control again, or at least will there ever be a time when dynamic pricing goes down in a way that ticket purchasers become aware of prices being more affordable?

--  etc., etc., etc.

Re the Hellinger, I don't really expect it to ever come back into the fold, which is a shame.  Gorgeous bones (I think far and away the most beautiful on Broadway), and good size.  A real shame.

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/15/19 at 10:22pm

Jarethan, you ask a lot of interesting questions but I'm just going to focus on one:

The producers who put musicals in small houses WANT to play small (1100 seat) playhouses. It's not for lack of a larger venue. But why a smaller theatre? It reduces the need to fill as many seats, it allows for a tighter ticket (higher price) for a hit, and it potentially allows the show to run longer. And, for shows that have started off-Bway or regionally, it's not as big a jump up. Of course, a show with a cast of 20+ and orchestra of 12+ is going to have a harder time with a playhouse –– and titles like Hadestown and Come From Away would work equally well in the St. James or Imperial –– but producers are leaning towards smaller houses whenever possible. Maybe the happy medium is 1200.

One more venue in the 1500 range could also be helpful, but reducing capacity and creating intimacy in the Broadway or Palace would be better than adding an entirely new musical house.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/15/19 at 10:23pm

Thomas Lamb designed the Hellinger. The original entrance was on 7th Ave . The landlord was charging a ton for rent just for that space .That coupled with the fact that the design was totally different style led the powers that be to let the lobby go and use the side entrance as the main entrance we have today.The theater is designed in French Renassance style

Lamb was a prolific architect. In addition to this he designed most of the now demolished theaters in Times Square. List includes The Rivoli,Mark Strand, Loews State and Capitol .

He designed many theaters across the country and world. Google and you tube San Francisco Fox theater. The most palatial theater ever built demolished for no reason It was to theaters what Penn Station was to train stations. A few of his theaters survive around the city

[RippedMan]

Posted: 12/16/19 at 12:07pm

Do we think the Liberty will ever come back? Doesn't seem like they can get anything to stick in that house - restaurant/store - so why not convert it back? Or is it too far gone?

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 12/16/19 at 8:16pm

RippedMan said: "Do we think the Liberty will ever come back? Doesn't seem like they can get anything to stick in that house - restaurant/store - so why not convert it back? Or is it too far gone?"

From what I was told the way the Liberty was boxed in by the developments around it they ended up cutting off too many of their emergency exits to have a capacity of 500+. Assuming that's true, it could be redeveloped into an Off-Broadway space (there was that immersive burlesque show that ran there a few years back, but I'm guessing they also kept their capacity well under 500)

[JBroadway]

Posted: 12/16/19 at 8:19pm

In case anyone is curious, I started w thread about the Liberty (not know what it was) a few months ago, and there was some discussion around it, and the reasons it’s not still used as a theatre.

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1118758#

[MarkBearSF]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 1:37pm

RippedMan said: "...A church doesn't need a theater like that."

Isn't that a bit presumptuous?  I would argue that they evidently DO need a house like that, since they've been there for 40 years or so, with no indication of wanting to move. And, from what I've seen online, it's not as if they bought it and are just sitting there and using it as a cheap location - they've been doing painstaking renovation through the years and being good stewards of the property.

I don't attend church (it's a cliche, but attending a theatrical production can be a religious experience, to me) - but I assume that the space is being well used in its current situation. I'd love to see it returned to its previous use - but I content myself with the knowledge that it's being well taken care of (and just perhaps, should circumstances change in the future, it might rejoin the Broadway League)

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 1:53pm

I'd love for their to be an investor/producer who promises lower prices to make theater more available for others. I know this isn't realistic, I don't work in the business and am not acting like I do, but man I really wish this would happen. So many people my age (22) don't attend or even think to attend theatre because of the prices it takes to go see it. Millennials simply don't have the $$$. I worry about the future of broadway because of this.

Do we think theres ever a chance, whether its at a new theater or a current one, we could see producers stepping in and making a certain theatre more affordable for its patrons? It'd be nice to see a place like the Marquis, New Amsterdam, Broadway, Gershwin, Hellinger hypothetically, it'd be really nice to see more tiered pricing added in. I know, it won't happen, but a poor boy can dream. 

[SeanMartin2]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 1:57pm

Perhaps this means we'll be looking at a lot of things being scaled back: casts, productions, members in the orchestra, perhaps even the more or less arbitrary number of seats used to define what is and is not "Broadway". It's either that or see ticket prices become even more insanely unreachable.

True, there will always be a market for the huge spectaculars, but perhaps it's time to also consider that smaller houses (and smaller productions) have a place in all this.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 3:35pm

Mike Barrett said: "I'd love for their to be an investor/producer who promises lower prices to make theater more available for others. I know this isn't realistic, I don't work in the business and am not acting like I do, but man I really wish this would happen. So many people my age (22) don't attend or even think to attend theatre because of the prices it takes to go see it. Millennials simply don't have the $$$. I worry about the future of broadway because of this.

Do we think theres ever a chance, whether its at a new theater or a current one, we could see producers stepping in and making a certain theatre more affordable for its patrons? It'd be nice to see a place like the Marquis, New Amsterdam, Broadway, Gershwin, Hellinger hypothetically, it'd be really nice to see more tiered pricing added in. I know, it won't happen, but a poor boy can dream."

Doesn't this system already exist in pretty much every production (both on and off Broadway)?  There are almost always low (or lower) priced options available -- whether they be 30 Under 30, student rush, regular rush, "cheap" balcony or rear mezz seats, $25 seats (like Betrayal and the recent productions of Twelfth Night and The Play That Goes Wrong).  What type of tiered pricing are you asking for?

[bandit964]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 3:54pm

Every single seat at the Signature (during the initial run) is only $35. 

I see over 20 shows a year and rarely ever pay more than $50 per show.  TDF makes it so almost anyone can qualify to join.  

Updated On: 12/17/19 at 03:54 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 7:50pm

JSquared2 said: "Mike Barrett said: "I'd love for their to be an investor/producer who promises lower prices to make theater more available for others. I know this isn't realistic, I don't work in the business and am not acting like I do, but man I really wish this would happen. So many people my age (22) don't attend or even think to attend theatre because of the prices it takes to go see it. Millennials simply don't have the $$$. I worry about the future of broadway because of this.

Do we think theres ever a chance, whether its at a new theater or a current one, we could see producers stepping in and making a certain theatre more affordable for its patrons? It'd be nice to see a place like the Marquis, New Amsterdam, Broadway, Gershwin, Hellinger hypothetically, it'd be really nice to see more tiered pricing added in. I know, it won't happen, but a poor boy can dream."

Doesn't this system already exist in pretty much every production (both on and off Broadway)? There are almost always low (or lower) priced options available -- whether they be 30 Under 30, student rush, regular rush, "cheap" balcony or rear mezz seats, $25 seats (like Betrayal and the recent productions of Twelfth Night and The Play That Goes Wrong). What type of tiered pricing are you asking for?"

I think you are grossly oversimplifying.  When I was a teenager, I started attending the theatre pretty regularly.  I could always get tickets in advance for even hit shows for around $3.  That is not possible today, even after adjusting them for all the real inflation that has occurred since those days.  The cheap seats, which you could buy in advance, cost about 30% of the best seats (and there weren’t even premium tickets).   The cheapest tickets for Hamilton are still $199 in the last row of the rear mezzanine, which is not much less than the price of non-premium seats in the orchestra.  There is  no good option to see Hamilton for a kid just starting out who wants to see Broadway shows...I know people who have tried the lottery 100s of time with no success.  BOM was the same way for the better part of a decade

I could buy $3 tickets in advance to see Carol Channing in Dolly the first time, Barbra in Funny Girl, Zero In Fiddler, Lansbury in Mame, original Company cast, original Follies cast, Lansbury in Gypsy, Dreamgirls, Nine, Sweeney, Les Mia, Phanton, Chicago (both times), Evita, and a lot more recent shows etc., where you could get cheap seats for a fraction of the highest price tickets. I think this all may have started with BOM (we can thank The Producers for premium seats).  If it had moved to a slightly larger theatre, maybe they would have left some cheap seats... but probably not...due to greed.  

I know someone will shout supply and demand... historically, they still managed to have some affordable seats that you could buy in advance, even for hot shows.

I think it is terrible that younger people do not have that option.  When the cheapest seats are well over $100, it is hard to argue that the theatre is not getting more elitist.

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 9:42pm

Mike, there are two fundamental problems with across-the-board low ticket prices: 

Recoupment:  Broadway is a business, and even investors in a "noble" cause like Constitution and Slave Play hope to recoup. Even a small-cast show where everyone earns scale is going to have a weekly nut of about $300k. I think the best alternative to this is what Hamilton does with its $10 lottery seats, or what Cursed Child and other shows do with X number of "cheap" seats per show. But "cheap" tickets are still readily available for the vast majority of Broadway shows (save for the biggest of hits).

Re-sellers:  That was the whole issue with Hamilton: the producers saw there was a demand for $800+ tickets on StubHub, so why should the third-parties be profiting $400+ per ticket when the artists and investors could be earning that money? If there's any genuine demand in the show, you're going to have a scalper problem.

[Cora Hoover Hooper]

Posted: 12/18/19 at 5:29pm

amoni said: "" Not having been in Manhattan for almost 4 years I have to ask. What happened to the old Times Square which was to have been used for a few different projects all of which died on the vine."



From everything I have heard The Times Square can't go legit because when Garth Drabinsky took over the space occupied by the The Apollo and Lyric, he took up the block on 43rd St. and left no room for a loading dock to the Times Sq. Apparently the city won't allow a loading dock on 42nd St."

 

Also, the Times Square doesn't even have a stage house anymore. I can't remember when, but they got rid of it and a store was put in there. That and the loading dock issue makes it a no go and that's too bad.

Updated On: 12/18/19 at 05:29 PM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 12/18/19 at 5:42pm

Phantom of London said: "As pointed out earlier in this thread the Mark Hellinger Theatre the legendary venue of My Fair Lady and Jesus Christ Superstarwas sold by the Nederlanders to the Times Square Church because they couldn’t get a tenant in the 1980’s.

Why can’t the Mark Hellinger Church be both a church and theatre? I mean the church use it on Sunday morning, then it can convert back to a theatre the rest of the week? It’s not like the church is catholic,where they believe the actual building is sacred?"

Churches aren't just for Sundays

 Right now my church is filled with toys and wrapping paper as we prepare to provide gifts for less fortunate children in the area. (We provided 100 meals for the needy on Thanksgiving).

Then there's religious education, penance services and Qa host of other activities.

 

[Cora Hoover Hooper]

Posted: 12/18/19 at 5:44pm

AEA AGMA SM said: "RippedMan said: "Do we think the Liberty will ever come back? Doesn't seem like they can get anything to stick in that house - restaurant/store - so why not convert it back? Or is it too far gone?"

From what I was told the way the Liberty was boxed in by the developments around it they ended up cutting off too many of their emergency exits to have a capacity of 500+. Assuming that's true, it could be redeveloped into an Off-Broadway space (there was that immersive burlesque show that ran there a few years back, but I'm guessing they also kept their capacity well under 500)"

Isn't street access blocked for the Liberty now? (I mean having any lobby). How could people even get in if it were rehabbed? It's a shame it just sits there surrounded.

Updated On: 12/18/19 at 05:44 PM

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 12/19/19 at 8:58am

IIRC, when the Hudson Theatre was being redone, there was talk of what other theatres could receive the same treatment, and the Edison Theatre was the only other theatre that had viable options for a reopening. 

[kaykordeath]

Posted: 12/20/19 at 12:00pm

I wonder if the soon-to-be-closed Play Station Theater could be re-purposed and scaled down into a Broadway House.

 

(I say this having never set foot inside it, only knowing it's a LARGE performance space with with too-many seats for a Broadway house in its current design.)

[RippedMan]

Posted: 12/20/19 at 1:20pm

Well the Times Sq. Theater already has plans, so I guess that's out. 

I'd love to see the Edison redone. It's a great location too. 

[PatrickDC]

Posted: 12/20/19 at 2:07pm

Here's a question: If you were the architect and/or designer for a completely new and modern theater, with a generous footprint and money-is-no-object approach, what new elements would you include? And what current elements would you change or delete? 

[Pashacar]

Posted: 12/20/19 at 2:33pm

PatrickDC said: "Here's a question: If you were the architect and/or designer for a completely new and modern theater, with a generous footprint and money-is-no-object approach, what new elements would you include? And what current elements would you change or delete?"

A nice, big lobby. I love that going to the Lyric or Minskoff, for example, is more of an experience compared to, say, the Jacobs or Kerr.

[SeanMartin2]

Posted: 12/20/19 at 5:39pm

PatrickDC said: "Here's a question: If you were the architect and/or designer for a completely new and modern theater, with a generous footprint and money-is-no-object approach, what new elements would you include? And what current elements would you change or delete?"

First off, dynamic seating, so the space can be reconfigured from standard proscenium to thrust to in the round by moving the seating platforms as needed, with a stage itself that has a built in elevator system that's constructed on a grid system so you can do anything from a single actor to a complete set.

Second, a flexible fly grid that can work to the needs of the seating as well as the production, one designed so a section can actually turn 90 degrees as needed without changing the rest of the grid structure (I've seen something like this in Paris, and it's pretty awesome.).

From there? A space that isnt completely dependent on head mics but allows a more natural sound by a judicious use of microphones around the performing area. Decent sized changing rooms (How do any performers get used to those little closets?). Proper backstage maintenance space for both sets and costumes. 

I'm sure there's more, but that's a start.

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:42am

I would have loved to see the Shuberts build a hotel... with several theatres underneath. 

 

I think there is a need for a Broadway Blackbox. Something similar to what Steppenwolf Theatre Company has... where the entire audience can be manipulated into any form of seating... so long as there are always 500 seats.