COMMUNTIY REMINDER: There have been articles written about the sexual misconduct of Ben Vereen and William Ivey Long

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JBroadway
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The BroadwayWorld moderators have informed me that in order to discuss these issues, we have to do so in reference to "legitimately reported, researched, and investigated cases that have been published by established media outlets." 

 

So let's try this again: 

Here is an article from BROADWAYWORLD THEMSELVES about Ben Vereen being accused of misconduct: 

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Ben-Vereen-Accused-of-Sexual-Assault-During-Production-of-HAIR-20180105

Surely a thread discussing an article written by BroadwayWorld can't be in violation of the board rules, right? But if BroadwayWorld does not consider themselves enough of an "established media outlet," and if their own research methods are not up to their own standards, here is the original article from the Daily News:

https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/broadway-big-ben-vereen-accused-sexual-assault-hair-article-1.3738684

As for William Ivey Long - here is an article written by BuzzFeed news about him: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/adambvary/william-ivey-long-the-lost-colony-michael-martin

The author based this article around a first-hand interview, and appeared to do his research. And while BuzzFeed may not be the New York Times, they are an established media outlet.

 

So what about these articles? Well, frankly my goal here is just remind everybody that these articles exist. Because the community seems to have forgotten about these articles entirely.

You'll notice, Moderators, that I have worded this post in such a way that I am not discussing "rumors or heresay," nor am I even directly discussing the two individuals themselves. I am simply making reference to these published articles - one of which was written by your own team. 

Have a nice day! 

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alovingfan
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And then there was James Barbour.  And he was hired to replace in Phantom despite of all this.  https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/nyregion/04actor.html

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Mike Barrett
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J Broadway, thank you for being on this. God its sickening how we try to silence these accusations in this world, so despicable and sad. I appreciate the work you've put in for putting this word out there, as its often shutdown. Good work! 

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@midnightradio While that story sounds awful, it is unfortunately the type of thing that gets threads shut down or comments deleted. Since it is not referencing a researched story or naming names, anonymous stories like this generally fall under hearsay and are shut down by mods (because, in your example, it prompts readers to now be suspicious and gossip about ANY hair/wig designer). I had a horrible experience with sexual assault and harassment in college with a costume designer, but I would not post the details here b/c it would only promote speculation and gossip since I would not be able to provide hard evidence as researched and reported by news outlets. 

However, I appreciate @JBroadway following up with the original intention of this thread. The mod response to the inquiry about shutting down the Ben Vereen thread was absolutely not adequate. They referenced the standard policy about not gossip and hearsay, but the original thread did not veer into that territory at all. Unless this cached version is missing a later, slanderous post which violated policies (here). As far as I can see only sourced articles (with links even) were referenced and a respectful conversation was had. So there was nothing warranting shutting down that thread according to the stated policies.

Updated On: 9/4/19 at 12:59 PM
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qolbinau
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Thanks for the info. Now, I for one would still be interested to see Ben V in Hadestown. Good casting idea.
"It’s the fractured quality in [Bernadette Peters'] singing voice and line readings that puts across the character as someone for whom resentment is sliding into madness." - NYtimes on Follies (2011).
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qolbinau said: "Thanks for the info. Now, I for one would still be interested to see Ben V in Hadestown. Good casting idea."

 

Agreed.  He would be brilliant in the role.

DAME
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qolbinau said: "Thanks for the info. Now, I for one would still be interested to see Ben V in Hadestown. Good casting idea."

Thank you.  I know I can stir the pot as good as anyone.  But that was my real intention when I started that thread.   I saw the pictures of Ben visiting backstage and a lightbulb went off...   But I was glad to be informed of the things I was by others. 

HUSSY POWER! ------ HUSSY POWER!
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Mike Barrett said: "If we're not allowed any gossip or heresy, then how on earth was the entire Company thread not deleted prior to the official announcement? Doesn't BWW also have their own articles called "Rialto Chatter"? So hypocritical BWW you should be ashamed."

Oh come on there is a difference between discussing whether someone has committed a crime vs whether Patti LuPone is going to transfer to Broadway as Joanne lol. That said, I’m glad that they have at least allowed this thread. It makes no sense that BWW would report on it but then not allow the discussion board to also talk about it. 

"It’s the fractured quality in [Bernadette Peters'] singing voice and line readings that puts across the character as someone for whom resentment is sliding into madness." - NYtimes on Follies (2011).
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keen on kean
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I cannot blame the moderators for being a little careful about unsubstantiated discussions of illegal conduct. Should the allegations be false, the person could sue for slander.  To say nothing of the possible reputational damage to presumed innocent persons.

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Mike Barrett said: "If we're not allowed any gossip or heresy, then how on earth was the entire Company thread not deleted prior to the official announcement? Doesn't BWW also have their own articles called "Rialto Chatter"? So hypocritical BWW you should be ashamed."

 

Gossip and heresay is allowed if it's about productions, or artists' professional lives. But we are not allowed to make unsubstantiated claims about their personal lives. 

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BWW wants to cover its bases to protect itself in the event someone were to allege BWW was allowing or publishing claims they had committed a crime. I think they're doing it inconsistently at best and over zealously at worst.

(And, honestly, the policy of "DELETE THE THREAD!!!" when these things occur is terrible and never goes over well, and at this point they should know that) 
 

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 9/4/19 at 01:19 PM
DAME
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JBroadway said: "Mike Barrett said: "If we're not allowed any gossip or heresy, then how on earth was the entire Company thread not deleted prior to the official announcement? Doesn't BWW also have their own articles called "Rialto Chatter"? So hypocritical BWW you should be ashamed."



Gossip and heresay is allowed if it's about productions, or artists' professional lives. But we are not allowed to make unsubstantiated claims about their personal lives.
"

It is a fine line often crossed by the subjects themselves with all the instagraming and social media.   But I still mantain that 80% of the deleting and silencing that has been going on in this board for a while has been unnecessary.   

HUSSY POWER! ------ HUSSY POWER!
ArtMan
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My problem is they have stated numerous times if they had to delete a thread or edit/delete a comment made, they would give the reason why, at that time.  This has not been the case and they are inconsistent with their own policies.  Only once was I given a reason and that is after asking them.  Other requests for explanation have been ignored.

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"hearsay"

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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Mike, Don't take it personally.  Been there, done that.

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I don't take it personally, but the hyprocrisy of the mods and their rules and how they enforce them are frankly childish, so I think it needs to be called out. 

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I believe women. There are many men in the theatre industry (I can think of a few names off the top of my head) who are known in the community for having sexually assaulted & raped women. No one has come out with allegations against them, and it's a shame that they will continue to work in this industry. It's all super hush hush. I'm not naming any names, although I do expect this post to be deleted anyway. It really sucks that these predators are still working, and the deleted threads like this are not helping the situation. I'm not trying to blacklist anyone...I'm just saying that in the #metoo era, women are being censored and not believed.

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I remember when the James Barbour thing was going down. We had a lot of discussions about it here, and I don't remember mods ever intervening. 

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
LarryD2
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Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?

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It seems very murky and it seems that whomever is working at BWW that day decides what is offensive or not.

The Amar Ramasar thread was not censored much besides the terrible people calling the young woman suing a "whore" and "slut". Yet, the Reeve and Eva are dating thread was deleted within a few hours even though it came from a news source. I was told it was deleted because "BWW doesn't typically accept threads about people's private lives". There are hundreds of those threads still active,though.

Very confusing, very uneven, and even though the mods have said they would let us know through email or pm the reasons why a thread gets deleted, they rarely actually do.

Yesterday's thread was fine and not abusive in any way. They screwed up. Thanks for creating new threads about this situation. 

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LarryD2 said: "Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?"

As I said in the previously deleted thread - Mr. Vereen took responsibility for his actions and issues a public apology. He’s done more than a lot of people in this industry have.

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Just to clear up one of the things in this thread, our intention was never to send a PM/email for every post that was deleted. If that was the impression that people got by something that was said, we apologize, that was not the what we intended to communicate.

Instead, the intent of explaining decisions was specifically for when the post fell into a grey area, or it was not obvious for the poster as to why something was deleted. If someone makes a post in good faith, and it was clear that they didn't realize that they were violating rules, we do send PMs to people regularly.

However, for veteran posters who have the same types of posts deleted multiple times, and/or it is addressed in the threads themselves, the only times that we will send out PMs would be to officially issue warnings when someone is approaching a suspension.

We try to do that as little as possible, and reserve those steps for just the most flagrant of rule violators. If you ever have questions about a specific post or thread, you are welcome to PM or email (moderator[at]broadwayworld[dot]com). 

Moderator Team

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Whenever there are these incidences of sexual harassment I always consider the people who apologize completely without any excuses a step above the ones who deflect, make excuses, or make apology apologies (like "I am sorry if my actions were misinterpreted and I offended anyone"COMMUNTIY REMINDER: There have been articles written about the sexual misconduct of Ben Vereen and William Ivey Long