Is Beetlejuice in trouble?

[inception]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 8:14pm

I've been reading through Tripadvisor's NYC forum. In a lady's trip report of her family's trip she writes about how happy she was to get Beetlejuice at TKTS, buying last Saturday for last Sunday's matinee. Then she mentions that they are a group of 12 and how happy she was to get a whole row in the orchestra so the family could all sit together.
Now that can't be a good sign!

[LesWickedly]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 8:17pm

I mean, you could just look at their grosses too.

[DianaD3]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 8:23pm

I saw the 2pm show last Saturday and there were a bunch of empty seats.

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 9:01pm

Beetlejuice is Groundhog Day. In the notoriety of its source material, in its box office numbers (BJ numbers // GD numbers), in its awards recognition, and probably in the length of its run.

With an operating cost estimated $750+ per week, there's no way they'll come close to making back the $21mm production budget. To last beyond September, sales would have to take a major upswing this summer, or WB would have to pour a ton of money into it. (The Shuberts also probably have other tenants knocking at the door.)

[darquegk]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 10:41pm

I think they realized after Washington, "the show has to be something people will be able and willing to license." So they cut down on the "Really F*CKing Explicit" promise from DC and created something cheeky but less "in your face," in the hopes that the show will recoup in regionals and schools.

The trouble with traditional Not Since Carrie era "hit or flop" thinking is the rise of the licensing houses. It used to be that if your show did not recoup on Broadway, you lose. You flopped. Game over, your show failed. But around 2000-2004 (the years when MTI and Tams Witmark began moving from mimeographed copies of Broadway materials to typeset, higher-quality offerings), the licensing houses made a big push towards offering newer, hotter shows and promoting them instead of relying on a mix of old standards and bargain-bin knockoffs. At this point, shows that did not thrive on Broadway, such as Seussical or Legally Blonde, began to generate income again, sometimes more than they did on Broadway. I doubt there's a Broadway production contract written today that doesn't take licensing fees and future royalties into account.

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 11:14pm

Right, but let's say the Broadway production is a total wash, it's virtually impossible to make back $20 mil in touring and stock/amateur licensing. Seussical and Footloose have been done by nearly every high school in America, yet licensing didn't fully cover the Broadway losses (to my knowledge). 

Now, WB might have a similar licensing situation as Dreamworks' Shrek (where the producer's share of licensing royalties won't end after 18 years), but a goal of recouping in 20-30 years isn't a great business model –– especially for a WB, which has never lead-produced a hit on Broadway, and now answers to bottom-line-focused AT&T. (Worth noting also that Beetlejuice also has a bunch of outside investors, so the risk isn't all on WB's shoulders.)

Updated On: 6/8/19 at 11:14 PM

[massofmen]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 11:32pm

just look at their avg tix price. 
if it cannot get to $90-$100.00 and sell out they are finished..
Their avg tix price has been steadily falling since 5/12...the perceived value of a BJ tix seems to be around $83.00..thats not going to cut it. Thats almost an off bway avg tix price. 

they are pretty much finished by labor day. Unless their producers decide to just advance it themselves. 

[haterobics]

Posted: 6/8/19 at 11:49pm

If 12 people being able to get discount tickets to a show means it is in trouble, then LOTS of shows would be in trouble... a lot of the high capacity %s are explicitly people showing up and getting TKTS tickets.

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/9/19 at 1:46am

I always planned my trips here around this time. From mid April up until around now I got tickets to what i wanted to see. School trips done, graduations happening. A good window of time to see shows.

Back when Book of Mormom opened, I easily got standing room 3 days after the nominations came out. And i got in line at 3:00pm.

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 6/9/19 at 1:56am

I hear from people that work there that it feels as though it will not last very long and other plays are dying to get into the theatre.

[Brian Bozanich]

Posted: 6/9/19 at 3:29pm

Beetlejuice, Pretty Woman, King Kong, and Be More Chill are all on edge. (Hadestown, Tootsie, and The Prom seem safe for now)

The four shows above are all on the bubble in terms of $, capacity, and overhead. Each of their producers has a number on the back of an envelope. The # of tickets sales they need to see in order to make staying open past Labor Day a viable option. If awards and sales targets are met, they stay open through fall, if not, all four will announce closings before July 1.

This is not to comment on the quality of all of these shows. This is the financial reality of Broadway. This year was unique in that shows did not announce closing immediately following a Tony nominations. Usually, the day after Tony nomination seas 5 or closing notices. (RIP Tuck Everlasting) This year, we had none.

Beetlejuice specifically is hoping a big production number on tonight's broadcast lead to a bump in sales in the next week. Time will tell.

[missthemountains]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 8:18am

SomethingPeculiar said: "Right, but let's say the Broadway production is a total wash,it's virtually impossible to make back $20 mil in touring and stock/amateur licensing.SeussicalandFootloose have been done by nearly every high school in America, yetlicensingdidn't fully cover the Broadway losses (to my knowledge).

Now, WB might havea similar licensing situation as Dreamworks' Shrek (where the producer's share of licensing royalties won't end after 18 years), but a goal of recouping in 20-30 years isn't a great business model –– especially for a WB, which has never lead-produced a hit on Broadway, andnow answers to bottom-line-focused AT&T. (Worth noting also thatBeetlejuicealso has a bunch of outside investors, so the risk isn't all on WB's shoulders.)"

To that end--having not seen BEETLEJUICE yet (and am eager to) -- is the show in a state where it seems licensable? I am told that what's really selling the show is the sets and effects. SHREK is the kind of material that can even have junior versions, but BEETLEJUICE seems like it would be at best, geared towards high schools--really colleges, ideally--but with such physical constraints, would it even be considered for programming?

I have to say that I am unfortunately anticipating BEETLEJUICE and BE MORE CHILL to fold sooner than later. It's unfortunate, because I was really rooting for these shows, seeing as horror and sci musicals have rarely (if ever, in the case of sci fi) had their day on Broadway. 

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 8:43am

According to Michael Riedel'a article on the Tony Awards yesterday, Hugh Jackman is going to move into the Winter Garden with "The Music Man".

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 9:19am

fashionguru_23 said: "According to Michael Riedel'a article on the Tony Awards yesterday, Hugh Jackman is going to move into the Winter Garden with "The Music Man"."

But the show is opening next year?

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 9:35am

Hoping BEETLEJUICE lasts until Halloween. We no longer get trick-or-treaters in my neighborhood, so a group of friends and I decided we'd go in to see BEETLEJUICE. It worked out nicely last year when we saw KING KONG.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 9:48am

disneybroadwayfan22 said: "fashionguru_23 said: "According to Michael Riedel'a article on the Tony Awards yesterday, Hugh Jackman is going to move into the Winter Garden with "The Music Man"."

But the show is opening next year?"

Correct. Its more of a reference to the comments above that something must be circling the Winter Garden and The Music Man is it. 

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 9:53am

disneybroadwayfan22 said: "fashionguru_23 said: "According to Michael Riedel'a article on the Tony Awards yesterday, Hugh Jackman is going to move into the Winter Garden with "The Music Man"."
But the show is opening next year?"


Full quote: "“Beetlejuice” did a frenetic number that won’t sell a ticket at the Winter Garden. “Beetlejuice” is about to be squished. Word on the street last night was that Hugh Jackman will be taking “The Music Man” to the Winter Garden next season."

Could they be moving MM up by 6 months for a Spring opening, and is this a further sign that WSS is dead? "Next season" could mean 19-20 or 20-21... 

BJ probably had a better day than a lot of other shows at the box office yesterday. It was a fun performance, but it may not help in the long run.

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 10:03am

missthemountains said: "To that end--having not seen BEETLEJUICE yet (and am eager to) -- is the show in a state where it seems licensable? I am told that what's really selling the show is the sets and effects. SHREK is the kind of material that can even have junior versions, but BEETLEJUICE seems like it would be at best, geared towards high schools--really colleges, ideally--but with such physical constraints, would it even be considered for programming?"

The design would have to be toned down considerably for amateur/regional market, but it's probably doable? I think the book would be more of a concern; it's very much PG13. Maybe they'd even release a "high school edition" of the BJ script. Addams Family and Shrek had huge physical productions on Bway and have still found a life in amateur licensing, though the stories are G-rated.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 10:06am

Dollypop said: "Hoping BEETLEJUICE lasts until Halloween. We no longer get trick-or-treaters in my neighborhood, so a group of friends and I decided we'd go in to see BEETLEJUICE. It worked out nicely last year when we saw KING KONG."

I watched the highlights of 2016 Republican Convention. Quite effective.

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 10:10am

SomethingPeculiar said: "missthemountains said: "To that end--having not seen BEETLEJUICE yet (and am eager to) -- is the show in a state where it seems licensable? I am told that what's really selling the show is the sets and effects. SHREK is the kind of material that can even have junior versions, but BEETLEJUICE seems like it would be at best, geared towards high schools--really colleges, ideally--but with such physical constraints, would it even be considered for programming?"

The design would have to be toned down considerably for amateur/regional market, but it's probably doable? I think the book would be more of a concern; it's very much PG13.Maybe they'd even release a "high school edition" of the BJ script.Addams FamilyandShrekhad huge physical productions on Bway andhave still found a life in amateur licensing, though thestoriesareG-rated."

They actually toned some of the language and sex jokes down for the Broadway production with the idea that high schools would then be able to do it. So yes, I'm sure they'll make sure there is an accessible high school version.

As for this running, I feel like if they haven't given up yet (either here or in DC), they'll at least try to make it through the summer. But would not at all be surprised to see this gone on Labor Day.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 10:10am

SomethingPeculiar said: "disneybroadwayfan22 said: "fashionguru_23 said: "According to Michael Riedel'a article on the Tony Awards yesterday, Hugh Jackman is going to move into the Winter Garden with "The Music Man"."
But the show is opening next year?"


Full quote:"“Beetlejuice” did a frenetic number that won’t sell a ticket at the Winter Garden. “Beetlejuice” is about to be squished. Word on the street last night was that Hugh Jackman will be taking “The Music Man” to the Winter Garden next season."

Could they be moving MM up by 6 months for a Spring opening, and is this a further sign that WSS is dead? "Next season" could mean 19-20 or 20-21...

BJ probably had a better day than a lot of other showsat the box office yesterday. It was a fun performance, but it may not help in the long run."

I forgot that we were in the 19/20 season...my mistake. Maybe the outlook of revivals look bleek and Rudin wants to pull it up 

[broadway86]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 10:18am

DianaD3 said: "I saw the 2pm show last Saturday and there were a bunch of empty seats."

I was at the same performance, and yes, it was disheartening to see the mezzanine so desolate.  

[aasjb4ever]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 11:36am

SomethingPeculiar said: Could they be moving MM up by 6 months for a Spring opening, and is this a further sign that WSS is dead? "Next season" could mean 19-20 or 20-21...
 

Mmmmmm. I haven't heard anything that WSS is off (but also I haven't heard ANYTHING about it...hmm) but if it's still on, Rudin's definitely not going to pit his two revivals against each other because why win one Tony when you can win two?

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 11:47am

Isn't this pulling around 800k a month? I don't think it's in jeopardy yet and I think the tourist season will see this one have a big uptick, especially after The Tony performance

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/11/19 at 12:04pm

SomethingPeculiar said: "Beetlejuice” did a frenetic number that won’t sell a ticket at the Winter Garden.“ 

 

It’s stuff like this that really makes me distrust and dislike Reidel. There are so many other ways he could have expressed this sentiment that don’t reveal a nasty bias. All he had to do was cite the recent ticket sales and negative reviews in order to convey this idea. But only would that have been less overtly vindictive, but it would have made him seem more credible. But he chooses to state his personal opinion as fact, THEN extrapolate from there that the Tony performance will be 100% ineffective, and use that as “proof” that the show is doomed (which it probably is, but that’s not my point). So many layers of idiocy.