Who you like 2020 Dems- Page 3

[javero]

I think that Mayor Pete has time to recover in time for 2024 which could feature Eric Swalwell, CA governor Gavin Newsom, and him in the mother of all battles for the party nomination, if Trump is somehow re-elected in 2020.  I'm anxious to see how the 2024 Dem nominee counters Nikki Haley.  A Senate seat would be a safer bid for at least two of the gents but they seem to have designs on the White House.  As shattering as a loss in 2020 would be, momentum would be on the side of the Dems going into 2024.

[South Florida]

"Even if you don't trade individual stocks or directly invest in the myriad funds available, you likely either currently possess or aspire to hold a 401(k), Roth, or retirement saving plans of some sort.  I detest class warfare."

What an elitist bunch of crap, if you hate class warfare start talking to your bankers and hedge fund managers and the corporate assholes who have widened the gap.

 

[Mike Barrett]

I can’t emphasize enough how many millennials will not turn out for Biden. He is all of ours last choices for the democrats right now

[javero]

“What an elitist bunch of crap, if you hate class warfare start talking to your bankers and hedge fund managers and the corporate assholes who have widened the gap.”

Perhaps my post was somewhat off-putting for some.  But, we should all keep in mind that the class of folks you sprayed has to eat too, SouthFlorida.  And presumably, they enjoy the same right to vote that we all here have.  No amount of vitriol hurled their way, or at me by proxy, is going to get them booted off the island.  It’s misdirected.  We’re all in this together.  I’m not interested in making this about me but will share that I’m what is known as an “activist investor”, and I’m not wealthy.  There’s more than one way to crack a nut.

I can’t emphasize enough how many millennials will not turn out for Biden. He is all of ours last choices for the democrats right now

That’s your choice of course but know this.  I can’t emphasize enough how many folks over the age of 50 like me, as well as indies, will turn out for whomever the Dems nominate, even if it’s gasp…Bernie Sanders.  Why? Because we were taught early in life that life holds no guarantees; politics is the art of compromise; that you win some/you lose some; and that at some point you have to fight back to keep a bully from turning you into his playground .  We didn't grow up in an era in which everyone got a prize for participation, nor did the adults around me at least suffer “sore losers”.  It bears repeating that we’re all in this together.  Elections have consequences...sit it out at your own peril.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Mike Barrett said: "I can’t emphasize enough how many millennials will not turn out for Biden. He is all of ours last choices for the democrats right now "

Do you really dislike him so much that you’d be willing to give Donald Trump another four years in the White House?  I can understand why you may prefer other candidates vying for a primary win ... I do as well ... but supporting him, and supporting him enthusiastically, is the only option if he’s the choice of our party.  To do otherwise has implications that can’t be undone for decades.  

[Miles2Go2]

I too obviously prefer some candidates over others, but it’s early on and I may very well change my feelings...besides that, in the general election I’ll vote for whoever the eventual Democratic nominee is. I may be able to survive four more years of Trump, but, make no mistake, others will not. The climate, people of color, trans women, and many others depend on us getting over our personal grievances with any specific Democratic candidate and voting as if our lives depend on it. To do otherwise, reeks of entitlement...

[GeorgeandDot]

I used to like Biden, but he's become creepy Joe. He's too hands on with little girls and there's video evidence of it that will be shown in ads 24/7 if he gets the nomination. He's far too old school and I don't see younger voters voting for him.

Harris is great with the debates. Unfortunately, her past is troublesome. I expect a lot of her stuff from her prosecution days will come back up.

Mayor Pete seems great and I really do like him. However, I think that much of America may have an issue voting for a gay man and I'm not sure he's tough enough to take on Trump directly. He'd be a phenomenal VP however.

Booker and Castro are good, but will make better VP picks.

Bernie, unfortunately, is far too old and a bit too neurotic. He's great, but I can't see middle America and the south going for his whole Larry David yell at everyone thing. He also has a past as a straight up, hard core communist that I could see really hurting him.

And then we have Warren. A terrific, tough, brilliant woman. The only dirt on her is that Donald Trump likes to call her a racial slur because she had a moment of bad judgement when filling out some paper work when she was super young. She's brilliant and I see her taking on Trump directly.

[javero]

"The only dirt on her [Warren] is that Donald Trump likes to call her a racial slur because she had a moment of bad judgement when filling out some paper work when she was super young."

Who is perfect among us? Sometimes we have to live long enough to even find ourselves in a position to screw up on our own account.  Hell, I've even had to privately apologize to a couple of posters on here for a few of my own tasteless and thoughtless remarks.  #VeryMuchAWorkInProgress

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that either Biden or Warren is "due" which is a philosophy typically associated with the GOP...I know, I know, gang.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I have nothing but respect for Elizabeth Warren.  She is smart, passionate, and has creative solutions to tough problems.  I disagree that the Native American thing is her Achilles Heel, however.   I think she sealed her fate when she bought into the Sanders single-payer insurance plan.  For those in the middle and on the right who fear government intrusion in what they perceive to be a private function, it’s a non-starter in the general election.  There is no way to convince hundreds of millions of people with private insurance through their employers that their families would be better off if they give up what has worked for them for years in exchange for something new and potentially worse.  And what about the millions who work at least indirectly for the health insurance companies?  (I just did a quick search that returned the number 2.6 million.  That’s a lot of people who flinch when they hear a candidate extoll the virtues of taking away their jobs.)

I don’t understand it because the alternative described by the more pragmatic candidates would allow her to express support for a theoretical single-payer solution in the long-term without taking anything away from those who are happy with what they have.  If we add a government-sponsored plan to the list of Obamacare options, we address one of the primary issues with the current system (the geographic areas where viable options are unavailable) without disturbing the peace for the majority of the population who get their insurance through their employers.  If the government option is the best choice, market factors will either push prices down across the board.  It’s a theoretical win-win.

I understand the benefits of single payer, but I want the Democrat to win.  We can’t have both.  

[yankeefan7]

"And then we have Warren. A terrific, tough, brilliant woman. The only dirt on her is that Donald Trump likes to call her a racial slur because she had a moment of bad judgement when filling out some paper work when she was super young. She's brilliant and I see her taking on Trump directly."

Taking away people's private health insurance and saying we need to pay the health care costs of people who come into this country illegally is going to be a tough thing to sell to anybody outside her base.

[javero]

"I disagree that the Native American thing is her Achilles Heel, however.   I think she sealed her fate when she bought into the Sanders single-payer insurance plan.  For those in the middle and on the right who fear government intrusion in what they perceive to be a private function, it’s a non-starter in the general election."

I find that to be a very fair assessment.. It also shines a light on the electoral college hurdle that she at the top of the ticket would have to overcome.  I'm willing to jump on the single-payer/medicaid-for-all bandwagon which is the left's contribution to this election cycle's zeitgeist. That's just how desperate I am to see Trump sent packing.

However, all the math I've seen incident to the costs of implementation has generated more questions than answers.  I'm not even going to be coy about my position that vesting "illegal immigrants" in the plan is D.O.A in the general election.  There has to be another suitable alternative.  Finally, I'd still like the option of keeping my employer-provided health insurance and retaining it in retirement.

All this leaves me thinking out loud, "you'll get my vote Liz but good luck with that". 

[SmoothLover]

Most of the millennials I know did not even know there were debates on TV this week. It tis the baby boomers and Seniors that are the larger majority of the voter block. So how millennials feel about Biden will not have much influence. On the other hand we do not vote until 2020 so a lot of things can happen. I agree that Newsom will be in the conversation come 2024 or 2028.

[Mike Barrett]

Never said I wouldn’t vote for Biden in the general people, relax. Doesn’t mean he can’t be the absolute worst possible choice for the democrats right now. He has too much baggage to go up against Trump in my opinion, Hillary partially lost because he can rally his base against someone like that. Could he do that for Warren, Pete, and Kamala? Of course, but the stuff for Joe is right there right infront of him. Joe doesn’t represent the democracts anymore and we seriously, desperately, need some change in the WH. I really pray Joe is not our nominee as I fear that spells 4 more years of trump. Young voters will turn out for a candidate they like (I vote in every local/general election but I can’t speak for everyone). Dems need the millennial turn out to be huge for them, and Joe inspires no confidence in me that he can get people to turn out for this election. Shakey last, too old, too much baggage, let’s please move on if we want to win. Everyone thought Hillary would be a potential slam dunk for the Dems as well and let’s see how that turned out. Change it up!

[Miles2Go2]

Anyone who has experience will have baggage, but I agree that Biden seemingly doesn’t do himself any favors anytime he opens his mouth these days. Having said that, anyone who is the apparent front runner will be exposed to increased scrutiny, criticism and internet trolling. The increased criticism of Harris suggests perhaps more than anything that she is moving up the ranks of candidates. The ideal Democratic candidate would appeal to both far left liberals as well moderates, an almost impossible achievement these days. Say what you will about the Republican Party, but they know how to fall in line and support the eventual nominee. The biggest enemy of the Democratic Party are the voters themselves. It didn’t used to be this way. Obama is right about these purity politics being our undoing. As a gay man, I suppose I would’ve had every right to oppose Obama in the lead up to the 2008 election. After all, he didn’t support gay marriage. So I could’ve just stayed home on Election Day. Instead, I became a member of his online campaign site where I made friends I still have today. I also made my first contribution to a political campaign and had so many Obama bumper stickers on the back of my Chevy HHR, I nicknamed it the Obama-mobile. Interestingly, he wasn’t my favorite early on in the primaries . I actually supported Edwards (oof!). All that is to say I agree that we still have a long way to go before primaries and then the eventual candidate emerges and then Election Day. Also, let’s not let the “perfect” be the enemy of the good. None of these candidates are perfect, but they’re all good, especially compared to #45. So let’s enthusiastically support our favorite candidates now and then when the eventual nominee emerges, let’s all go out and support that candidate with our vote.

[Miles2Go2]

I loved Harris’s performance in the second night of debates, but she has a troubling history too. Just read this New York Times summary of her prosecutorial history. Granted each of her reported slights only gets about a paragraph each so it’s difficult to capture the nuances of each case, but it would make her attack on Biden seem a bit hypocritical. As a person who actively supports criminal justice reform, it concerns me. Still, I’m not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We would all be well advised to remember that our favorite candidates all have their Achilles heels. Harris would still be 1000% better at the job than our current imposter-in-chief.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/kamala-harris-criminal-justice.html?login=facebook

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Miles2Go2 said: " . . . had so many Obama bumper stickers on the back of my Chevy HHR . . ."

I heard they sold one of those!  You’re the guy!

 

[Mike Barrett]

Of course all candidates have their Achilles heel, I understand that. My issue is Joe can’t handle it. He was horrible in the debate the other night in my opinion, and did NOT seem like someone who could handle Donald trump in a debate at all. His track record is sketchy, he doesn’t cover himself well, just agreed with evrryone at the debate, idk, I’ll vote for him but I want a candidate that will inspire people to go out and vote. I’m glad you did Miles, we just need more like you! Joe I really fear may not bring that, regardless of if he’s against a Trump. It’s sad, but it’s true. Hillary clearly didn’t bring enough of the crowd like we thought and hoped, but it’s because no one was excited for her. Kamala made me feel the most confident the other night

[Mike Barrett]

Of course all candidates have their Achilles heel, I understand that. My issue is Joe can’t handle it. He was horrible in the debate the other night in my opinion, and did NOT seem like someone who could handle Donald trump in a debate at all. His track record is sketchy, he doesn’t cover himself well, just agreed with evrryone at the debate, idk, I’ll vote for him but I want a candidate that will inspire people to go out and vote. I’m glad you did Miles, we just need more like you! Joe I really fear may not bring that, regardless of if he’s against a Trump. It’s sad, but it’s true. Hillary clearly didn’t bring enough of the crowd like we thought and hoped, but it’s because no one was excited for her. Kamala made me feel the most confident the other night

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Mike Barrett said: "Never said I wouldn’t vote for Biden in the general people, relax. Doesn’t mean he can’t be the absolute worst possible choice for the democrats right now. . . . "

Thanks for clarifying.  

I’m sure you understand that so many of us still licking our wounds from the last election are scared $hitless that Democrats and Independents will once again stay home because their preferred candidate doesn’t advance in the race or because they aren’t in love with either of the choices.  I can’t get past my anger with the  people in my circle who didn’t vote in 2016 or voted the third party because of issues they had with Clinton that, in my opinion, paled in comparison to the alternative.  (To my friend, a woman, who could not support Clinton because she “stood by her man” in the face of infidelity . . . I still don’t understand.)

I am not supporting Biden today.  I am personally inspired by the stories of candidates such as Buttigieg, Harris, and Castro, and am listening carefully to the policies of a handful of others (such as Warren and Klobuchar) before casting my vote.  But I will knock on doors from here till November 3, 2020 if Biden is our party’s choice.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

@MikeBarrett - we were posting at the same time.  I don’t disagree with anything you wrote.  

[javero]

Quite predictably, Harris now has other troubles.  Trump's birther brigade and the racial purity trolls are out in full force.  I can't even bring myself to post any related links. 

I don't think the Dems can use "it's still early" this time around.  Too much is at stake.  For all the talk of Biden & Bernie's ages, they are eclipsed in that department by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. It's time for the Dems to bite the bullet and start thinning the herd by hook or crook.  Hyperbole aside, this is the most important general election of my lifetime.

I readily admit that I'm not always the most patient person when it comes to dealing with Millennials & Gen Z.  However, I'll do my part to encourage them to broaden their scope a bit to include issues that impact all our lives, while I show a wee bit more enthusiasm for a few that they've honed in on.  Perhaps its not obvious to some younger voters that there's a huge and active voter block that regularly tackles child care, school bullying, marriage, in laws, divorce, child support, alimony, domestic violence, college expenses, medical care deductibles, every tax imaginable, business startup/closing, bankruptcy, unemployment, foreclosure, and/or elder care, sometimes simultaneously.

[Mike Barrett]

Well, Joe implied it was okay to make Homophobic slurs at a speech this last weekend. I know I’m on the hate Joe train but frankly, how could you not be? In 2020, this is NOT the guy people! I don’t want trump just as much as everyone else but I can guarantee you talking with my friends this weekend, you are electing Donald Trump if you put up Joe Biden. It’s scary and I fear people do not realize the condesquences or this nor have people learned from 2016. We want someone NEW and fresh blood. Not someone who argues for state rights in freaking 2019.

[South Florida]

The question Lester Holt asked on Wednesday was "who would abolish their private health insurance in favor of a government run plan?"  The fact that Warren raised her hand could means several things.  She could be talking personally about her own private health care, or she thinks it's a good idea to have a government run plan.  I think too much is being made of this, she could qualify what she meant by raising her hand.  I think as long as she lays out how she will hit the brakes on the health care and pharma industries her position will be made clearer. 

[javero]

"The fact that Warren raised her hand could means several things.  She could be talking personally about her own private health care, or she thinks it's a good idea to have a government run plan.  I think too much is being made of this, she could qualify what she meant by raising her hand.  I think as long as she lays out how she will hit the brakes on the health care and pharma industries her position will be made clearer."

Right wing media have already run with it.  She has to own it now.  If she tried to walk it back, she'd appear to be as duplicitous as Kamala Harris.  She had to shift further left to peel off some Sanders supporters.  Now, she's finds herself holding an untenable position.  She made a tactical blunder by binding the party to a third rail issue, with no "out".  Trust me when I write that the attack ads are already in the can. 

Elizabeth Warren leaves no doubt: She's 'with Bernie' on kicking 180 million people off of private insurance

End private insurance, cover undocumented immigrants?

Sometimes it really does boil down to the devil you know.  Clearly Biden is not everyone's cup of tea but imo he's the only viable top-of-the-ticket general election candidate among the Dems.  He certainly entered the race with the general election in mind.  I'll take Obama's 3rd term over Trump's 2nd any day. That's as good as it gets in 2020.
 

[Mike Barrett]

Just because Joe was his VP does not mean Joe is Obama. Just watch the debate. I think he’s trump’s most beatable opponent for sure. I mean watching the debate was painful. Trump would destroy Biden in that setting. Yes, there’s plenty of time but let’s not act like Joe has been the most successful at running for President. I think it’s too early to say he’s the only one electable from this crowd, when he’s done nothing but screw up so far. Is that really what we want? We shouldn’t settle, fight for your candidate!!