Brantley and Green's WILL WIN/SHOULD WIN 2019

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SomethingPeculiar
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List:  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/theater/tony-awards-critics-picks.html

Conversation:  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/theater/broadway-season-tonys-critics-debate.html


Quick highlights:
- Both think The Prom deserves to win Best Musical but won't
- It's a good thing Brantley didn't review Hadestown
- Both think Daniel Fish should win Best Director
- As always, there's so much interesting Off-Broadway stuff that "should" be nominated.

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IdinaBellFoster
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Would have loved to see Brantley's review of THE CHER SHOW since he thinks it should have gotten into Best Musical.

Interesting that Brantley also thinks that TOOTSIE will take score. 

"Oh look at the time, three more intelligent plays just closed and THE ADDAMS FAMILY made another million dollars" -Jackie Hoffman, Broadway.com Audience Awards
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In a year with very, very few obvious frontrunners, I'm taking the predictions of these two fairly out of touch guys with a larger grain of salt than usual. 

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
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Mike Barrett
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Hm, interesting read. Hadestown was clearly not loved by Brantley. May not mean anything for its winning chances but very interesting nonetheless. Loving the love for The Prom as well! I don't get why all the off broadway shows should be nominated since they aren't eligible, unless this is the NYT's push to make those eligible. 

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Kad said: "In a year with very, very few obvious frontrunners, I'm taking the predictions of these two fairly out of touch guys with a larger grain of salt than usual."

Its fun that this year is so wide open but you're right here. I think they're both right that The Ferryman will win though. 

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I bought tickets to Hadestown based on the mostly great reviews of it posted on this board- and the great reviews most reviewers also gave. Surprised there was not much love for it by the NYTimes guys. I also bought tickets for Tootsie- would love to see Prom- but it ends early October- and I come to NY in late October- and I doubt it will be extended judging by the box office numbers. Might get to NY on a whim and see it some time soon though. Surprised Hadestown is not the frontrunner in the Times- it certainly seems to be on this message board.

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I bought tickets to Hadestown based on the mostly great reviews of it posted on this board- and the great reviews most reviewers also gave. Surprised there was not much love for it by the NYTimes guys. I also bought tickets for Tootsie- would love to see Prom- but it ends early October- and I come to NY in late October- and I doubt it will be extended judging by the box office numbers. Might get to NY on a whim and see it some time soon though. Surprised Hadestown is not the frontrunner in the Times- it certainly seems to be on this message board.

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These are very close to my predictions except for score and director.
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I do not understand the love for The Prom. Don't get me wrong, I found it entertaining enough, but winning best musical over Hadestown and Tootsie? No. 

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I am starting to wonder if we have another Kinky Boots vs Matilda scenario with Hadestown/Tootsie. I know its been brought up on here before but as we get 3 weeks away I just feel the momentum hasn't ended for Tootsie like I thought it may. This board LOVED Matilda while they LIKED Kinky, I feel its same thing here where this board is over the moon for Hadestown and in general likes or dislikes Tootsie. Shouldn't surprise anyone that this board is more into Hadestown though. Doesn't mean it'll win necessarily. Im loving how unpredictable this awards season is though, especially after a fairly predictable Oscar season. Nice to have the tony's have some real competition. 

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HenryTDobson said: "I do not understand the love for The Prom. Don't get me wrong, I found it entertaining enough, but winning best musical over Hadestown and Tootsie? No."

The Prom is much better than Tootsie, imo. I’d rather see that win with its authentic message.

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BWAY Baby2 said: "... would love to see Prom- but it ends early October..."

Has the Prom announced a closing already?

 

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BREAKING NEWS - Its possible to love “Tootsie” AND “The Prom”!

We’ll be following this breaking news as it develops, but people on the scene are reporting that in a year, nobody will remember what show wins what award and that they still had a great time at each of these shows. Stay with Broadway World as the story unfolds.
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I find it interesting that Hadestown is not many people's first choice frontrunner for Best Musical considering how many more people have taken to it than Tootsie.

Then again, Tootsie is a show about "the industry" and Hadestown is not, but The Prom is also a show about "the industry" and there are many who believe it's chances look bleak. 

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Kad said: "In a year with very, very few obvious frontrunners, I'm taking the predictions of these two fairly out of touch guys with a larger grain of salt than usual."

I agree. Has the NYT ever had a female theater critic? 

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I thought The Prom was enjoyable, but its execution being "nearly flawless" is.. debatable. It's a show that lampoons the very lampoonable idea of East Coast liberal artist types thinking they're changing lives and making a difference with their work and presence... but it's also a show by East Coast liberal artist types that is literally putting itself out there as a show that can change lives and make a difference. It even unironically features a big act two number where one of these smug actors effortlessly opens the eyes of teenagers to their religious hypocrisy by trotting out very well-worn arguments.  If only it were so easy. 

I think it has some good tunes, and Beth Leavel in a cheetah print trench coat belting her face off is something I will always love, but it's a show that tries to have its cake and eat it, too. I don't think it's authentic- I think it's pretty calculated. 

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 5/14/19 at 11:35 AM
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Quick highlights:
- Both think The Prom deserves to win Best Musical but won't
- It's a good thing Brantley didn't review Hadestown
- Both think Daniel Fish should win Best Director
- As always, there's so much interesting Off-Broadway stuff that "should" be nominated.
"

Methinks you buried the lede. Neither of them think that "To Kill a Mockingbird" SHOULD have been nominated for Best Play, an omission that was widely regarded on this board as one of the most shocking snubs in Tony history.

 

CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.
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Not that being original so garner a vote for best musical, but do we think that will help The Prom ultimately like it did last year with The Band's Visit? This season seems much stronger in comparison, but still, not sure if they want to award "original" work over movies or greek mythology or jukebox shows we get every year. 

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I think the only people fixated on the idea of "an original work" as a thing to be celebrated in and of itself are the members here. 

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 5/14/19 at 11:47 AM
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Mike Barrett said: "Not that being original so garner a vote for best musical, but do we think that will help The Prom ultimately like it did last year with The Band's Visit? This season seems much stronger in comparison, but still, not sure if they want to award "original" work over movies or greek mythology or jukebox shows we get every year."

The Band's Visit is based on a movie.

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CT2NYC said: "Mike Barrett said: "Not that being original so garner a vote for best musical, but do we think that will help The Prom ultimately like it did last year with The Band's Visit? This season seems much stronger in comparison, but still, not sure if they want to award "original" work over movies or greek mythology or jukebox shows we get every year."

The Band's Visit is based on a movie.
"

Huh, didn't know that. Forget what I said then lol. 

 

I dont think honoring original work is necessary though, I just thought thats what happened last year when The Bands Visit swept and we had Mean Girl and SpongeBob having a ton of nominations. More commercial shows I guess is what Im looking for here. Encouraging original work instead of Magic Mike musicals is what I thought they were going at. 

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They do make a good point about Hadestown, which many reviews highlighted, but didn't emphasize. Its Chavkin's direction that hides the clear flaws of Hadestown, where Orpheus and Eurydice have no character arcs throughout the show despite being the the shows protagonists. Orpheus is simply charming, and Eurydice simply wants to be free of struggle. The later does have some emotional struggle, but it amounts nothing by the plots conclusion. The secondary couple of Hades and Persephone, actually do have character arcs, and should be the shows leading couple, but are relegated to secondary characters... simply because its an adaptation of "Orpheus and Eurydice". Tootsie on the other hand has the exact opposite problem where the book and score work despite a mediocre and boring direction by Scott Ellis. I think the argument they are making is similar to the Lion King vs Ragtime debate as Ragtime is the better musical on paper, but Lion King is the better production. They think Tootsie is the Ragtime, but as history shows Lion King will likely win.

My qualms with Hadestown are its producers, who I overheard discussing their awards campaign and competition in the lobby of the Kerr while I was purchasing tickets before it opened. They were openly trashing other shows, and were making the argument that Hadestown is high art and can't be judged, while every other musical that opened is commercial trash. It simply rubbed me the wrong way, and definitely clouded my judgment when I saw the show. It didn't help that the show increased their standard ticket prices post opening to $249.  I honestly just don't want to reward greed. Tootsie and The Prom's producers may be just as bad, but I didn't experience it.

Updated On: 5/14/19 at 11:54 AM
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HamilHansen said: "I find it interesting that Hadestown is not many people's first choicefrontrunner for Best Musical...”

I’ve been following the “odds” at goldderby, and it’s been interesting to see them shift over time. The people over there making predictions seem to mostly feel like Best Musical is Hadestown’s to lose. Current predictions of all users:

Hadestown: 486

Tootsie: 49

The Prom: 24

But more interesting to me is the all star top 24 users (the ones who had the most accurate predictions over the last two years):

Hadestown: 23

Tootsie: 1

The Prom: 0

To your point, Hadestown still seems to be quite a few people’s first pick.   

https://www.goldderby.com/odds/combined-odds/tony-awards-2019/

Updated On: 5/14/19 at 12:10 PM
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bdn223 said: "My qualms withHadestownare its producers, who I overheard discussing their awards campaign and competition in the lobby of the Kerr while I was purchasing tickets before it opened. They were openly trashing other shows, and were making the argument thatHadestownis high art and can't be judged, whileevery other musical that opened is commercial trash. It simply rubbed me the wrong way, and definitely clouded my judgment when I saw the show. It didn't help that the show increased their standard ticket prices post opening to $249. I honestly just don't want to reward greed.Tootsieand The Prom'sproducers may be just as bad, but I didn't experience it."
 

Those conversations happen behind closed doors for every show. It's a catty industry, and everyone wants to return their investors' money.

The bigger problem probably lies in the fact that Hadestown's producers have never run a Tony campaign before, whereas Tootsie has longtime Broadway veteran Scott Sanders at the helm. Of course, the ad agencies and press reps do a lot of work during Tony season, but it all starts at the top with the producer.

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Its not even that those conversations happen behind closed doors though, doing it in the lobby of your own theatre is just a lack of self awareness that I can't respect really. Openly ****ting on your competition is not how to go about things. If true, hope they lose for that in itself. Of course everyone in this business wants to win and is/can be catty but when its public like that, and you're a producer, its just rude and simply lazy lol. That being said, ill be shocked if it loses, even if I believe Tootsie and The Prom have a chance.