TKTS= Too Kind To Scalpers

[RockStarNYC]

Been a while, but I figured I'd post here about something that happened to me today at TKTS. I was in the Times Square area with my sister after meeting some family for brunch. Brunch finished around 1, so we figured we'd head over to TKTS to see what was available for a matinee. When we arrived there, We were seeing what was available and saw that The Cher Show was available. We have wanted to see this show so, when someone asked what we were thinking of seeing and I honestly replied that we were thinking of seeing The Cher Show. All of a sudden, this guy runs up to us and shoved Cher Show tickets to our faces. I was very taken aback, as was my sister, and walked toward the window with this guy shouting in our faces. Eventually, with a woman and a guy holding a clipboard saying we should buy the tickets, we decided to walk away as that was a bit too much for us. I have been to TKTS plenty of times and have never witnessed this type of behavior. I was quite alarmed as well that no one really stepped in to stop this person from harassing us. I later saw a friend that I know used to work at TKTS and he asked me what the guy looked like. When given a description of him, he replied that that guy was a scalper. This knowledge bothers me incredibly. How is it TKTS would allow a scalper to harass two potential customers?? Heck, what are they doing right in front of the TKTS board anyways?? Something's rotten in the state of Duffy Square....

[Miles2Go2]

I know what you mean. Its nothing new, but TKTS has no authority to chase off scalpers. That would be the responsibility of the police. Were the man and woman holding clipboards TKTS employees? If so, they shouldnt have encouraged you to buy from a scalper (especially one being so aggressive and for a show listed at TKTS) although I know they probably know who actually has tickets and who are just scammers.

[RockStarNYC]

@Miles I saw no TKTS insignia on the guy holding the clipboard. It, in fact, was a blue jackwt. The woman wasn't holding a clipboard. She had a beanie, was rather short, with glasses and grey hair. Sucks that apparently nothing can be done.

[Miles2Go2]

TKTS employees always wear red tops. I will say a scalper who was hanging around the TKTS booth in November 2015 helped us find tickets to Hamilton via the Marriott Marquis theater concierge booth (she just walked us over there when I asked about tix). Of course, the tickets were obscenely marked up and horrible seats, but my love affair with Hamilton started then.

[ACL2006]

They're always there. ALWAYS! I've never had issues with them, but there's usually plenty of TKTS employees around that they typically keep their distance.

[uncageg]

I forget who employs the blue jacket people but I think they are, or were, legit. But they usually hang out over on the west side of the square near Hard Rock and Bubba Gump.

[haterobics]

This is sort of an extension of the stage door issue, since you're trying to regulate what someone can legally do on a public sidewalk. Scalping isn't illegal. Neither is standing on the sidewalk outside of a show you may not have attended. Plus, if a panicked scalper is trying to sell you tickets to a show you want to see right before showtime, you may be getting a better deal than the TKTS booth...

[Platypus]

haterobics said: "This is sort of an extension of the stage door issue, since you're trying to regulate what someone can legally do on a public sidewalk. Scalping isn't illegal. Neither is standing on the sidewalk outside of a show you may not have attended. Plus, if a panicked scalper is trying to sell you tickets to a show you want to see right before showtime, you may be getting a better deal than the TKTS booth..."

Scalping may not be illegal, but harassment is. I would never, ever give my hard-earned money to someone who harasses me and makes a living of ripping people off, no matter how good the deal is. 

 

[Miles2Go2]

Platypus said: "haterobics said: "Scalping may not be illegal, but harassment is. I would never, ever give my hard-earned money to someone who harasses me and makes a living of ripping people off, no matter how good the deal is."

Harrassment is never okay, but I will say I have gotten used to having on my “invisible protective armor” like a superpower when walking through NYC now, especially the Times Square area. I remember the first time I was in NYC for vacation, I got scammed into giving $5 to one of those guys (there were actually 2 of them) who thrust a CD into my hands then demanded payment. Tried to listen to the CD later. Didn’t make it past track one. Lol. Lesson learned. I have developed selective listening now. Works well with those kiosks workers at the mall too who want to give you a free skincare sample. Lol

I will say that if they’re giving you a legitimate deal on a legitimate ticket then they’re not taking advantage of you. But for me, there are too many unknown variables that pose obstacles to make me comfortable with such a purchase. Arguably, we were totally taken advantage of (with our full awareness and consent) when we bought our Hamilton tix through the Marriott Marquis ticket concierge. But it seemed like a legit vendor where we knew we were getting legitimate tickets. Same with Ticketmaster and Stubhub resale purchases. Although I know people have gotten burned, at least they have a recourse if the ticket proves to be bogus. 

 

[haterobics]

Platypus said: "Scalping may not be illegal, but harassment is. I would never, ever give my hard-earned money to someone who harasses me and makes a living of ripping people off, no matter how good the deal is."

Yes but, to link it back to the original point of the thread, what is TKTS meant to do about people on a public sidewalk bothering people on (extensibly) a public sidewalk? They have their little tapes up for the line, and security, but they aren't really breaking the law as far as I can tell. Someone trying to sell you Cher Show tickets after you say you want to buy Cher Show tickets doesn't sound like anything the NYPD is going to get involved in...

[HogansHero]

Let's try to de-bundle a little:

1. As stated, public sidewalks and squares are, as the name suggests, public. 

2. Scalping is not against the law, unless there is some specific law that makes it so with a finite area. (New York has such a law, but it does not apply to Broadway theatres. (<1500 feet, >more than 5000 seats).

3. Harassment can be illegal, but mind the definition: "conduct or repeatedly commit acts which alarm or seriously annoy the victim and serve no legitimate purpose." 

4. The NYPD has not deputized TDF to enforce the law. 

5. All of these laws could be changed, and maybe should be, but there is nothing in what is described here that sounds actionable to me. 

[Michael19]

I think you way overreacted to the situation. I've bought tix from these resellers (I dont think they ever ask for more than ticket price, usually for less so I dont know if the term "scalpers" is appropriate...a "scalper" by definition prices tix as high as the market will allow). if these resellers offer tix at a lower prices, better locations or shows not available on the board, thats great and I would buy them. I dont think they expect you to buy their tix if a better deal was available at tkts. if you choose not to buy their tix, they will accept this. it doesnt sound like harassment to me and I didnt witness the situation but I suspect they may very well have offered a good deal on the tix. again, you are free to reject their tix but I dont see a problem in their offering it. I find the resellers an option that I appreciate and they dont appear to be hurting anyone, so I really am puzzled by the degree of anger you express.

[HogansHero]

To be clear, I would not (and would strongly advise against) buying tickets from someone on the street, under any circumstance. Risk>reward, even if it is Hamilton at face value.

[B.JAMES]

 

[Impossible2]

They aren't scalpers, they are just people who work for the agency that's half a block back towards Central Park.

[Platypus]

Sorry if people think that my reply was over reacting. I just get very defensive about people getting in my space and not taking no for an answer. I agree that the best approach is to just ignore all the people getting in your face, but in this situation, the OP was trying to have a conversation with the TKTS staff and someone else was interfering - this is very hard to ignore. But I also agree that TKTS cannot be expected to be able to eliminate this. 

I despise scalpers for creating a ticket shortage and then profiting off of it, so I refuse to give them my money even if it is a "good deal." If the ticket is cheap, it is either fake or they are having trouble selling it - buying it from them and helping them make back at least some of what they paid is still encouraging their heinous behaviour. I'd rather they get stuck with the full cost of the ticket. But that's a whole other discussion unrelated to the original post so I'll stop there. 

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Why ISNT scalping illegal, do we know? Its basically cheating profits.

[dramamama611]

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Why ISNT scalping illegal, do we know? Its basically cheating profits."

Who is it cheating? The original sellers got their money when the scalper bought the ticket.

Do I like it? No, but as long as someone is willing to buy from scalpers, it will continue. 

[kdogg36]

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Why ISNT scalping illegal, do we know? Its basically cheating profits."

Would you say the same about someone who sells a house for more than they paid for it? When you own something, you have a right to sell it for any price you and a buyer agree on, and no one is getting cheated. I don't think making money off of tickets you own should be illegal. 

[Miles2Go2]

kdogg36 said: "GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Why ISNT scalping illegal, do we know? Its basically cheating profits."

Would you say the same about someone who sells a house for more than they paid for it? When you own something, you have a right to sell it for any price you and a buyer agree on, and no one is getting cheated. I don't think making money off of tickets you own should be illegal."

That’s an interesting perspective and I’ll admit I’ve never thought about it that way before. I do think the process of buying up lots of tickets before lots of the general public can access them thus forcing them to pay exorbitant prices if they want to see the show. I googled scalping laws in NYC the other day and it does look like NYC has outlawed scalping bots and vendors selling tickets that they don’t actually possess yet. I suppose it is a start, but as was seen with Springsteen it may not be enough. I do wonder what the law would say about a corporation buying up all the homes across the country and then reselling them at exorbitant prices this creating limited supply and great demand. 

[mailhandler777]

Here in PA on the back of the tickets it says you can resell the ticket but not above face value. Once you go above face value of the ticket it becomes illegal and you can get arrested if caught. Not sure if it's that way in other states.

Anyway I'm like the other person that posted about selective hearing. A few months ago I had one of the guys shoving their CDs in my face and when I just kept walking he was like "what you don't like black people". I responded with "I love all people but not when they are shoving their CDs in my face" and kept on walking.

[Michael19]

Why is the selling of tix below ticket price, and often significantly below ticket price called "scalping"? The situation discussed here involves people reselling tix in the vicinity of tkts. in my experience, they are always asking less than box office as they recognize they are competing with tkts. I bought a Frozen orchestra ticket for $70 from one of these people...was I "scalped"? I dont think so. Further I think it would be extremely rare, if ever, that any of these resellers charged more than box office...the tkts crowd is not the market for that pricing. I would think the greatest concern over this type of thing would be the possibility of fake tickets. ironically, this really isnt a problem as the guys selling tix near tkts are there everyday, so it wouldn't make any sense for them to do this. I find these guys a little brash but kind of colorful in a Damon Runyon kind of way and I like the option of purchasing their tix. again, I was never treated rudely but I cant assume that everyone has had my experience.

[Islander_fan]

Miles2Go2 said: "kdogg36 said: "GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Why ISNT scalping illegal, do we know? Its basically cheating profits."

Would you say the same about someone who sells a house for more than they paid for it? When you own something, you have a right to sell it for any price you and a buyer agree on, and no one is getting cheated. I don't think making money off of tickets you own should be illegal."

That’s an interesting perspective and I’ll admit I’ve never thought about it that way before. I do think the process of buying up lots of tickets before lots of the general public can access them thus forcing them to pay exorbitant prices if they want to see the show. I googled scalpinglaws in NYC the other day and it does look like NYC has outlawed scalping bots and vendorsselling tickets that they don’t actually possess yet. I suppose it is a start, but as was seen with Springsteen it may not be enough. I do wonder what the law would say about a corporation buying up all the homes acrossthe country and then reselling them at exorbitant prices this creating limited supply and great demand."

 

Selling your tickets af or below face value isn’t illegal or considered scaling. Scalping is when you sell your ticket above face value. 

[HogansHero]

Islander_fan said: "Selling your tickets af or below face value isn’t illegal or considered scaling. Scalping is when you sell your ticket above face value."

Looks like we again need to sort things out.

1. Selling a ticket at any price is not illegal in New York (which is the only jurisdiction relevant to this thread).

2. Certain activities relative to reselling tickets ARE Illegal: e.g., using a bot to buy the tickets, failing to comply with the statutory requirements for reselling tickets as a for-profit business.

3. Tickets being sold near TKTS below face value are either (a) tickets a reseller (whether legal or not) is trying to dump before they become valueless or (b) fake.

4. Some of us do not want to buy a ticket from a reseller, at any price and in particular to bail them out, even if it is advantageous.

5. Some people only care about themselves.

6. No one wants to buy a fake. 

[Wee Thomas2]

And what about all those Iron Men and Spider-Men and Minnie Mouse characters harassing folks for tips?  Do you complain to Disney and Marvel, etc, that they aren't doing anything about this?

It's NYC.  You have to be a little bit tough to get around, but just ignore folks you don't want to talk to.  DO NOT ENGAGE and you won't get harassed.