RIP William Goldman

GroupAGroup1
#1RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 3:03pm

Rest in peace to William Goldman, Oscar-winning screenwriter, and writer of THE SEASON.

My love for Goldman came from his non-fiction, and THE SEASON is just a glorious piece of writing. Thoughts for his family.

gregnyc2
#2RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 6:12pm

Bye, Felicia! (THE SEASON)

gypsy101 Profile Photo
gypsy101
#3RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 6:23pm

RIP

(does this mean we can finally get that Princess Bride musical??)


"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
Updated On: 11/16/18 at 06:23 PM

Call_me_jorge Profile Photo
Call_me_jorge
#4RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 6:46pm

^is it sad that was the very first thing I thought of too? I just want another Adam Guettel musical already


In our millions, in our billions, we are most powerful when we stand together. TW4C unwaveringly joins the worldwide masses, for we know our liberation is inseparably bound. Signed, Theater Workers for a Ceasefire https://theaterworkersforaceasefire.com/statement

darquegk Profile Photo
darquegk
#5RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 7:04pm

There are creators who I love very much, and yet realize that they are the biggest obstacle between their creations and the public. I call it the Kafka effect. William Goldman was always one; Prince and Richard O’Brien are two others.

gypsy101 Profile Photo
gypsy101
#6RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 7:13pm

Call_me_jorge said: "^is it sad that was the very first thing I thought of too? I just want another Adam Guettel musical already"

i get that Guettel is a Houston foreclosure of a human being but i love The Light in the Piazza so much (though i admittedly don’t care much for his other works) that I want to hear this musical finally! but i just realized Goldman’s estate will probably say no.


"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#7RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/16/18 at 8:07pm

Although Goldman revolutionized screenwriting (for better and for worse with his reliance on surprise reversals), I've long thought his greatest achievement was his non-fiction. (Well, that, and the novel of THE PRINCESS BRIDE, which I find far superior to the film.)

I have reread THE SEASON every year for about 40 years now. It never gets old, even though ticket sales, union rules, the star system, etc., are now very different than they were in the late 1960s. Along with SONDHEIM & CO., it remains one of the two best works ever written about Broadway.

HogansHero Profile Photo
HogansHero
#8RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 9:33am

The Season was a great book about Broadway but it is important to remember that it is inaccurate in many details and it is also the single most important work of homophobia in the history of the theatre. 

devonian.t Profile Photo
devonian.t
#9RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 9:43am

darquegk I agree 100%.

Add me to the list longing to see The Princess Bride come to fruition. (though I know it won't)

darquegk Profile Photo
darquegk
#10RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 10:03am

Devonian, I may as well clarify the Richard O'Brien statement: the rights and licensing situation with Rocky Horror is ridiculously baroque, managed differently in different parts of the country and completely blocked off in many countries outside the US. Additionally, all of O'Brien's other shows are unable to be licensed or performed without explicit permission both from O'Brien and the private rights holders, many of whom are in contention.

Thirty years after the aborted Rocky Horror sequels ended in the production of the film "Shock Treatment," a stage version came out in 2015 that tore away most of the film's excess and restored many of the abandoned concepts from the Rocky Horror sequels. But because O'Brien's work lives in licensing hell, you can't produce the show and it's locked away after its brief run.

sabrelady Profile Photo
sabrelady
#11RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 11:40am

 i just realized Goldman’s estate will probably say no.

It will entirely depend on his  will and how he has protected that work. I suspect his daughters may be more open  BUT if he has specifically barred  a musicalization ( and until probate we don't know) that will be the deciding factor .

The Homophobia in The Season is I feel unconscious. Goldman was straight white Jewish man of the 30'3 and 40"s ( don't make it better!) It is a book of its period written in 1966 published in 67-68. 1968 was when The Boys In the Band came out the 1st onstage representation of homosexuality ( and look how people feel about it now!). Context is everything

R.I.P. Thanks for all the wonderful stories and insights in the non fiction( Which Lie Did I Tell? is still a fav read)

Updated On: 11/17/18 at 11:40 AM

HogansHero Profile Photo
HogansHero
#12RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 12:27pm

It was not unconscious and the context was the theatre community. There were plenty of people in those years that knew better, and he was unquestionably aware of that. What he said was not passive homophobia but active. It is not excusable. We can appreciate the good without sweeping the bad under the rug. This is no different than excusing George Wallace et al. There is a huge difference between insensitivity and racism. 

gregnyc2
#13RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 1:15pm

Thank you Hogan’s Hero (you are now mine). While THE SEASON is a great read, Goldman’s homophobia is virulent and aggressively so. These post-death (sorry, Bill) platitudes, esp columns (Slant, for god’s sake, like, really?) praising The Season, have made me a bit nauseous. I first read The Season in my teens (70s); I (living in Wichita with no understanding of the world) fully felt the abject disdain/hatred from Goldman’s book. And it wasn’t just a passing phrase, the book oozes with Goldman’s overt homophobia. It made me feel ashamed to be gay; I grew up and ultimately understood that I felt ashamed for Goldman.

HogansHero Profile Photo
HogansHero
#14RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 2:25pm

@gregnyc2 To put too blunt an edge on it for you, there are people who died because of William Goldman. Thank goodness you were not one of them. 

sabrelady Profile Photo
sabrelady
#15RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/17/18 at 9:46pm

there are people who died because of William Goldman. 

Hey maybe u can find the funeral home he is at and sh!t in  his mouth.

 

-30-

 

 

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#16RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/18/18 at 3:04am

HogansHero said: "@gregnyc2 To put too blunt an edge on it for you, there are people who died because of William Goldman. Thank goodness you were not one of them."

Names please. Who or what died because of William Goldman, other than your own sense of proportion?

dramamama611 Profile Photo
dramamama611
#17RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/18/18 at 7:10am

I dont know if any of what HH said is true. .but we have to stop judging the past with the understanding of today. Was he STILL a homophobe or doing/saying anything against the LGBTQ+ community? I dont know the answer to that, either, but I do believe the adage that when one knows better, they do better.


If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

HogansHero Profile Photo
HogansHero
#18RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/18/18 at 8:39am

@Gaveston I am sometimes astonished by the inability to connect dots sometimes exhibited on this board. My comment followed up on Greg's. Lacking in positive reinforcement and role models, many young gays felt ashamed to be gay. A not insignificant number of them killed themselves.Homophobia like Goldman's was the shovel for their graves.

@Dramamama as I said above, he knew better. He chose to be a very public homophobe, not just someone with a passive insensitivity borne of ignorance. Yes someone can express remorse, which may save their soul if you believe in things like that, but that does not excuse nor, as is pertinent now, suggest that it needs to be swept under the carpet in memorializing them. 

missthemountains Profile Photo
missthemountains
#19RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/18/18 at 9:05pm

I have never read THE SEASON but since the community has posted about it, it's apparent he said a lot of disgusting things in that book to which he shouldn't be forgiven for. While I think it is extreme to say people died because of Goldman, he did perpetuate a homophobic narrative that, in combination with a general homophobic cultural narrative, led many gay men (and women I'm sure) to take their own lives. But to say he directly caused it is a loaded statement with not much to back it up.

However THE STEPFORD WIVES and MISERY have had such huge impacts on me as an artist and I am so thankful that he brought those stories to life on screen. Its a shame MISERY didn't do better. His script for it was quite strong. 

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#20RIP William Goldman
Posted: 11/19/18 at 8:01pm

Per Box Office Mojo, MISERY is the forth highest grossing adaptation of a Stephen King novel. At over $60 million domestic for a 2-character film--not to mention an academy award for the leading lady--I don't think the film did too badly.

Hogan's Hero, I have no trouble assigning blame to Ronald Reagan, Ed Koch and the like for ignoring AIDS until far too may people had died. But if THE SEASON caused gay person to take his/her life, I will be very surprised.

Yes, Goldman's attitude is akin to Howard Taubman's, but it's the liberal condescension of its era, not overt homophobia. And history has proved wrong their argument that gay men can't write straight characters. I first read THE SEASON as a teen; it never occurred to me that its author was qualified to evaluate or judge me as a gay man.