What Tony's Would The Band's Visit Have Won Last Year?

[Jarethan]

This is not necessarily a debate of what out should have won, but what it would have won.

I would have voted for Katrina Lenk over Bette Midler, but I don't think the outcome would have changed; Bette would have still won in what I guess -- and will never know -- was a landslide.  (Ironically, I would have voted for Lauren Ambrose this season).  Looking through the awards that it won, I do not think that it would have won a single one of those awards last year, given the much stiffer competition.  The only one that I think might have been possible was Ari'el Stachel, but I still think Gavin Creel would have won.  Both gave very charismatic performances, but Creel had a bigger role that gave him more to do.

I am curious what other people think...and again, this is more about what you think would have won, not what you think deserved to win.  

[JBroadway]

Just so you know: It's "Tonys" without an apostrophe. I'm pointing it out because otherwise someone will inevitably reply with the snarky stock-respond, "Tony's what?" 

[Wick3]

lol after learning how it's named after Antoinette Perry, I actually think spelling it Toni awards makes more sense to me.

But to answer your question, I think Band's Visit would have beaten Dear Evan Hansen for Best Musical. I also think Gavin would have beaten Ari'el. Then again, I saw Band's Visit from the mezz and extreme side orch and didn't feel Ari'el's stage presence from his role but hey I'm not a Tony voter. 

[bdn223]

Last year you had 2 runaway hits that were also critically lauded in Dear Evan Hansen and Hello Dolly. If I remember correctly there were rumors of the show possibly transfering last spring, but it was already a really crowded season. If it were to of opened last spring it would of likely faced a similar fate as The Great Comet.

[Kad]

I'm not really sure what the point is of this hypothetical. A strong contender's presence affects the outcome in different ways. Band's Visit and Dear Evan Hansen may have split votes, for instance, allowing Come From Away to take home more.

(though it is interesting to point out that in the awards that the off-Broadway productions of DEH and Band's Visit both qualified for in the same year, DEH did not perform as well).

[Broadway61004]

I'm guessing that it would have still taken Orchestrations and potentially Director (although that whole category last year was just weird, and who knows what would have happened if it was Cromer vs. Ashley vs. Grief vs. Chavkin).  Score would have been interesting, because obviously Pasek and Paul were (and still are) the hip up-and-comers that everyone is in love with (and rightfully so), but there was also a definite pervading sense this year that Yazbeck was way overdue for a Tony.  So I could definitely see a scenario where they rewarded him with Score while rewarding Hansen with Musical.

[SomethingPeculiar]

2016-17 was such an amazing season for new musicals. If Band's Visit had opened up against all of them, maybe it would have won 1 Tony like CFA did? A consolation prize of sorts?

I do think one of the things that benefitted Band's Visit the most when it first began on Broadway was that it was the only "serious" new musical that people could get a ticket to. Hamilton, Evan Hansen, and CFA were sold out, and Comet, Groundhog, Bandstand, and the others had all been long closed.

But then, if Comet had opened this year, it could have walked away with anywhere from 6-10 Tonys. Or even if Bandstand opened this year, it probably would have been nominated for a lot.

It's all about the season that surrounds you.

[Wick3]

SomethingPeculiar said: "It's all about the season that surrounds you."

I agree. Each season is different and winning a Tony simply means you got the most votes against the other nominees. Even last year, had Sunday in the Park with George been eligible for Tony Awards, I think Jake G would have won the Tony over Ben P but it's all speculation as we'll never know.

 

[Rainah]

The Band's Visit opening last year? Likely none, or one or two as consolation prizes. DEH poledanced HARD for their awards, it would take a lot to stand a chance against them. 

the real question is, if Comet opened this season would they have taken home enough awards/acclaim to stay afloat without having to boot Oak for Mandy?

[(Insert Clever Name)]

The Bands Visit would have taken home nothing. It only got so much because of this awful season. Last year, every best musical nom was good, DEH and CFA being front runners. TBV could not come close to either. It may have gotten a best musical nom, but nothing close to an award. It would probably have faced a Bandstand like fate, though IMO Bandstand was hot garbage but still better than Comet. So Katrina Lenk would have probably booted Christine Ebersole out of the Actress noms. And Tony would have gotten a leading nom. It might have actually flopped like Amelie.

[SomethingPeculiar]

Rainah said: "the real question is, if Comet opened this season would they have taken home enough awards/acclaim to stay afloat without having to boot Oak for Mandy?"

Musical, Score, Orchestrations, Director + design awards, maybe Book.

There's also a world in which Josh Groban was petitioned into Featured Actor for Pierre, in which he would have easily won (last year or this year).

[rg7759]

Best play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TFMH18]

I'm confused as to why no one thinks Band's Visit would stand a chance to beat DEH for best musical. TBV's reviews were more rapturous and not to mention more ROUNDLY stellar. Dear Evan Hansen was far more polarizing from a critical standpoint (many critics loved it including the big ones, but many took issue with it in more ways than one). Also, lest we forget Band's Visit actually beat DEH for best musical at that year's Lortel Awards. Obviously that is not a be all end all determination, but to count TBV out as a best musical contender is ridiculous considering it's the definition of a critical darling. Beyond best musical, I don't think any of three actors who won would have done so last year. 

[Kad]

Why are people so sure that Great Comet would knock Band's Visit out, exactly? Or that Band's Visit would go home empty handed or unnominated?

It was already competitive on its own. It was unanimously praised, both off and on Broadway. It netted up major awards at the Atlantic- even beating DEH for some of them. It was doing respectable box office on Broadway even before it won its slew of Tonys.

Great Comet was divisive, poorly managed by its producers, and doomed as soon as Groban left. That wouldn't have changed if it opened this year.

I know it's fashionable to hate on Band's Visit right now due to its overperforming at the Tonys, but jeez, people. It had all the makings of an awards darling from the start, in any year. This has nothing to do with your personal opinion on the quality of these shows. It's about recognizing how these awards bodies work.

[Mister Matt]

WHAT IF REDHEAD WOULD OF OPENED IN 1988?  IT MIGHT OF GOTTEN MORE TONY'S THEN JEROME ROBIN'S'S BRAODWAY!  AND IF WICKED WOULD OF OPENED IN 1945, IT WOULD OF STOLEN ALL OF OKLAHOMA'S TONY'S!  AND IF CARRIE WOULD OF OPENED IN 1927, SHOW BOAT WOULD OF ONE NOTHING AND NOBODY WOULD OF EVEN HEARD'VE IT!

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Would The Band's Visit have knocked out any of the four nominees for Best Musical in 2017 for a nomination? Would they have just nominated five? What other nominees in 2017 would have been bumped off in favor of The Band's Visit?

[OhHiii]

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "WouldThe Band's Visithave knocked out any of the four nominees for Best Musical in 2017 for a nomination? Would they have just nominated five? What other nominees in 2017 would have been bumped off in favor ofThe Band's Visit?"

Groundhog Day

[Rainah]

SomethingPeculiar said: "Musical, Score, Orchestrations, Director + design awards, maybe Book.

There's also a world in which Josh Groban was petitioned into Featured Actor for Pierre, in which he would have easily won (last year or this year)."

I don't know that it would. I think it would deserve to win, I think it deserved to win last year for taking so many risks that mostly paid off and breaking boundaries and staying away from the conventional, but doing those things made it polarizing. Critics preferred the conventional, safe, but successful DEH over bold and inventive but strange Comet. TBV is much less of a powerhouse than DEH, but it's also a critical darling. 

Probably Orchestrations and Score, as TBV is light in that respect. I would hope director and design awards, as they're more likely to reward the bold, but some could go either way. But if Comet wins the lion's share of design awards and the music ones, TBV wins best actor + actress, and book...

Does Steele have a chance as best supporting over Stachel? I feel like Groban would have a hard time petitioning for supporting, considering his character's name is the first word in the title. And Lucas Steele was a powerhouse.

Does Comet picking up more awards tip into into a sweep for best musical? Or does The Band's Visit come out on top? As much as I adore Comet and am not into TBV, I still think TBV edges it out for best musical. 

More considerations:
Without Best Musical they likely don't turn the grosses around as much, but they do open in a less crowded season and get more individual attention. 

Once Amelie flops and everyone knows the value of a Hamilton actor (not much, outside of Hamilton), I think they're unlikely to take a risk on Oak as Pierre. That means no scandal that scares away their big name for fall and closes the show. 

The Kagans are still the Kagans, so the show's marketing is still horrible and there's probably a few more little bumps/scandals that we can't foresee. The show likely limps along as long as they can keep stuntcasting then closes, but we'd get at least till January. Possibly till the following fall. 

Wouldn't have changed too much, but it's interesting to think about the butterfly effects of opening a year later. 

[Jarethan]

I love award shows as much as anyone does, and I love it when the shows I love win Tonys.  I started this thread because, since the Tony's, I have had several friends attend TBV with heightened expectations because of the 10 Tonys.  I think only Hamilton and The Producers won more than TBV, but could be wrong; that can set a too-high expectation for occasional theatre goers.  (Of course, I realize that lots of things can cause too high expectations...10 Tony's is certainly high on that list, however).

Had they asked before seeing it, I would have told them that it is a small show, really a play with music, and that I enjoyed quite a lot.  I would have cautioned them to manage their expectations, and I think they would have enjoyed it more.  

That made me revisit the arbitrariness of these awards -- certainly not a new thought -- since I do feel that it would have won no Tony awards last year.  I do believe that it would have received a lot of nominations, relegating GHD to at least one nomination for best actor, but that it would have been killed by the combination of DEH, Come From Away, The Great Comet, and Hello Dolly.  (Off-Broadway, it may have beaten DEH in a few cases; but, on Broadway, DEH entered into that 'zeitgeist' zone that very few shows enter, and I personally think that Come From Away also did, if to a lesser extent.  People who never go to the theatre have heard of both shows, have expressed interest in seeing both shows, and a number have gone to them).  

I am not suggesting that TBV didn't deserve any Tony Awards, just that winning 10 sets an awful unrealistic expectation of what is really a small show.  

 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Don't forget TBV did win Best Music and Lyrics at the Drama Desk Awards (and with the Broadway bias in play) AND won Best Score at the Outer Critics Circle Award last year over all the nominees outside of Dear Evan Hansen, but DEH lost the Lucille Lortel Award to The Band's Visit. TBV also won the Drama Critics Circle Award, an award DEH lost to Shuffle Along. You can still believe DEH would have beat TBV but it's not like it had no shot with the way some of you are talking.

ETA: I just read the post right before mine, and now I know the intent of this thread. It's to bash TBV and talk up shows that person prefers. If I have to read TBV is a "play with music" one more effing time, I'm going just ask that poster to quit the Internet.

[Jarethan]

I really don't think I have an agenda.  Actually, I enjoyed TBV more than CFA or Great Comet...and Shuffle Along for that matter.  I liked all of these shows quite a lot.  I did not see GHD because of limited slots (out-of-towner these days), combined with the fact that I hate the cast recording, having tried to get through it 5 - 6 times.  

I admit that I loved DEH, but I would have voted for Great Comet or TBV for score, and Great Comet for direction and technical awards.  I would have voted for Katrina Lenk for best actress in a musical, although I do not think she would have won.