Was the 2017-2018 season better than the 2009-2010 season?

[Playbill_Trash]

This is a question of just the new musicals of each season, but I was thinking back on how much flack the musical of this past season got and compared it to the last worst best musical (in my opinion), Memphis.

Thinking back to 2010, there was no musical that got the acclaim that The Band's Visit got this year.

Numbers wise, both seasons had the same amount of new musicals open, 6. In 2010 it was Memphis, American Idiot, Fela!, Million Dollar Quartet, Addams Family and Come Fly Away. 

Of those, the only show that the critics loved was Fela! Memphis was pretty meh with critics and American Idiot was a hit with the kids but still had huge issues with the book. So all in all, only one real decent musical came out of that season, Fela! and it ended up losing to a boring show.

Now compared to this season, The Band's Visit has gotten much more acclaim than any show of 2010. On top of that, Spongebob has gotten a huge following greater than anything that was seen for American Idiot, or Addams Family. Also, Mean Girls is all around a much stronger show than Million Dollar Quartet. So looking at the numbers, there are 3 musicals from this season that were received much better than any combination of 3 from 2010. And 2010 was the only year I thought the voters were choosing the lesser of 4 evils, not even this season. 

 

So despite everyone saying that this season was the end of broadway, was it still better than 2010?

[BroadwayConcierge]

Yes. Infinitely so.

[bwayphreak234]

Yes.

[Solipsist234]

Umm, what world are you living in where SpongeBob has a big following and the shows got collectively better reviews this season? Mean Girls got ravaged by the critics, dude. Same with Frozen! Also Summer and Margaritaville.

[Impossible2]

Yes.

I really enjoyed 2017-2018 and don't get all the ball ache about it.

The musicals may have been fewer and slightly weaker but then 2016-2017 was freakishly good and not usual, but the plays were MUCH stronger 2017-2018 than they were the season before.

2017/2018 musicals seemed to suffer because people refused to give shows a chance based on their own prejudices and missed out on some good shows.

[Playbill_Trash]

Solipsist234 said: "Umm, what world are you living in where SpongeBob has a big following and the shows got collectively better reviews this season? Mean Girls got ravaged by the critics, dude. Same with Frozen! Also Summer and Margaritaville."

Ok, that is true critics wise. They made it clear this year that they only loved 1 new show. That's still 1 more than they loved in 2010. I guess my point is, 2018 had a clear best musical frontrunner and critics favorite because bands visit was so strong. Whereas 2010 was still a toss up come tony time since all shows were equally bland. Was anyone defending Million Dollar Quartet, Fela, Memphis, or Addams Family to their grave on these boards like they did for Spongebob?

Yes I agree Frozen, Margaritaville, and Summer were all misses. But audiences in total seemed to be more enthusiastic for Mean Girls, Spongebob, and Bands Visit than any new musical in 2010. 

[BroadwayRox3588]

I think the general audience is pretty critical of Mean Girls. The bulk of the people defending it are the teenage "stans" on Twitter/Instagram/Tumblr, who would "die for" the entire cast. 

[Solipsist234]

BroadwayRox3588 said: "I think the general audience is pretty critical ofMean Girls. The bulk of the people defending it are the teenage "stans" on Twitter/Instagram/Tumblr, who would "die for" the entire cast."

^This!

I can also confirm this too; those teens are freaking annoying in how they display their unabashed love of Mean Girls! It's honestly worst than the fans of Heathers (who are just as bad!)

[Impossible2]

I'm 48 and really enjoyed it. Was it the greatest musical ever made, no, but it was still very entertaining.

The only thing really wrong with it is that the music is a bit generic, but it's certainly not bad. 

[Broadway61004]

One thing to consider, though, is that (in my opinion at least) as many problems as Addams Family and Come From Away had, they were still INFINITELY better than Summer or Escape From Margaritaville.

So it looks like this:

2018 had by far the best #1 musical; 2010 and 2018's 2-4 shows were about even; and 2010 had the best #5 and #6 musicals.

So all in all, it feels about even.

[haterobics]

Solipsist234 said: "those teens are freaking annoying in how they display their unabashed love of Mean Girls! It's honestly worst than the fans of Heathers (who are just as bad!)"

Strangely, I never really liked Mean Girls because when the movie came out, it just seemed like a watered down Heathers to me.

[Solipsist234]

haterobics said: "Solipsist234 said: "those teens are freaking annoying in how they display their unabashed love of Mean Girls! It's honestly worst than the fans of Heathers (who are just as bad!)"

Strangely, I never really liked Mean Girls because when the moviecame out, it just seemed like a watered down Heathers to me."

^This!

[Eboyd514]

BroadwayRox3588 said: "I think the general audience is pretty critical ofMean Girls. The bulk of the people defending it are the teenage "stans" on Twitter/Instagram/Tumblr, who would "die for" the entire cast."

I don’t know. I really enjoyed it and I’m not a teenage Stan. It’s not the best musical I’ve ever seen but it was a fun night out. 

[IdinaBellFoster]

I think the growing box office proves that it isn't just the "stans" who are enjoying MEAN GIRLS.

The 2017-2018 season is much better than the 2009-2010 season. At least they had four musical scores to nominate. 

[Impossible2]

haterobics said: "Solipsist234 said: "those teens are freaking annoying in how they display their unabashed love of Mean Girls! It's honestly worst than the fans of Heathers (who are just as bad!)"

Strangely, I never really liked Mean Girls because when the moviecame out, it just seemed like a watered down Heathers to me."

Heathers was crap, Mean Girls was a masterpiece x

[BroadwayRox3588]

There's a stark contrast between the people who have posted about Mean Girls on this thread, and teenage stans on Instagram/Twitter. The people here who have said they enjoyed it have also said things that could be improved about it. Also add me to the camp of people who very much enjoyed the show, but could definitely spot some pretty obvious flaws.

The teen stans? They see no flaws. They see a perfect show, and a perfect cast. And as I've said, would seemingly do anything for that cast. (Examples: "I would gladly let Barrett Wilbert Weed punch me in the face" or "I would die for everyone in this photo" in regards to any picture with Mean Girls cast members)

[Impossible2]

BroadwayRox3588 said: "

The teen stans? They see no flaws. They see a perfect show, and a perfect cast. And as I've said, would seemingly do anything for that cast. (Examples: "I would gladly let Barrett Wilbert Weed punch me in the face" or "I would die for everyone in this photo" in regards to any picture with Mean Girls cast members)"

That's what teenagers do though, were you never a teenager?

I used to think Flashdance was the best movie ever made and most heterosexual males still carry on the same way at 40 about terrible 80's action films like they did when they were first released.

I think you'll also find their ridiculous comments are little more than 'in' jokes between each other and not the sinister statements they appear. They try and outdo each other in the stupidity stakes for laughs, it's not serious.

[BroadwayRox3588]

Impossible2 said: "BroadwayRox3588 said: "

The teen stans? They see no flaws. They see a perfect show, and a perfect cast. And as I've said, would seemingly do anything for that cast. (Examples: "I would gladly let Barrett Wilbert Weed punch me in the face" or "I would die for everyone in this photo" in regards to any picture with Mean Girls cast members)"

That's what teenagers do though, were you never a teenager?

I used to think Flashdance was the best movie ever made and most heterosexual males still carry on the same way at 40 about terrible 80's action films like they did when they were first released.

I think you'll also find their ridiculous comments are little more than 'in' jokes between each other and not the sinister statements they appear. They try and outdo each other in the stupidity stakes for laughs, it's not serious."

Everything you just said is completely valid and true. But would you consider that type of fangirl awe a serious in-depth look into the show? I'm not saying their opinions don't matter, they totally do. But I'm saying that is a teenager that is completely enamored with a member (or members) of the cast likely to look in-depth at the specifics of the show (flow of the book, pacing, etc.)? They're more likely to bask in the glory of their "faves." Valid feelings? Absolutely. Indicative of how the general Broadway audience member views a show? That's more debatable.

[SomethingPeculiar]

From a quality perspective, they are probably similar. From a sales perspective, 2017-18 was much better.

It's also interesting to look at the other categories from 2010, which are comparable to this past year. Like 2017-18, there were several acclaimed musical revivals (La Cage, Night Music, Finian, Ragtime, plus the not-nominated Promises/Promises) and 2 big hit play revivals (Fences and A View From The Bridge, plus Royal Family, Lend Me A Tenor). There was no big play juggernaut like Harry P, but some very respectable smaller plays (Red, Vibrator Play, Next Fall, Time Stands Still).

[Impossible2]

BroadwayRox3588 said: "Impossible2 said: "BroadwayRox3588 said: "

The teen stans? They see no flaws. They see a perfect show, and a perfect cast. And as I've said, would seemingly do anything for that cast. (Examples: "I would gladly let Barrett Wilbert Weed punch me in the face" or "I would die for everyone in this photo" in regards to any picture with Mean Girls cast members)"

That's what teenagers do though, were you never a teenager?

I used to think Flashdance was the best movie ever made and most heterosexual males still carry on the same way at 40 about terrible 80's action films like they did when they were first released.

I think you'll also find their ridiculous comments are little more than 'in' jokes between each other and not the sinister statements they appear. They try and outdo each other in the stupidity stakes for laughs, it's not serious."

Everything you just said is completely valid and true. But would you consider that type of fangirl awe a serious in-depth look into the show? I'm not saying their opinions don't matter, they totally do. But I'm saying that is a teenager that is completely enamored with a member (or members)of the cast likely to look in-depth at the specifics of the show (flow of the book, pacing, etc.)? They're more likely to bask in the glory of their "faves." Valid feelings? Absolutely. Indicative of how the general Broadway audience member views a show? That's more debatable."

Your post kind of reeks of 'Broadway' being for a certain kind of audience when it is not. For it to remain relevant and evolve it must have variety and be for everyone. People here carry on about commercialism, but every show is commercial, if they weren't people wouldn't invest money for something there is no market for.

I go see stuff from every genre there is and do a lot of off Broadway stuff as well. I enjoyed Mean Girls and Spongbob WAY more than Hello Dolly and Carousel for example and yet they are considered very traditional Broadway.

There is nothing throwaway really about Mean Girls subject matter, it is very relevant to what a lot of these kids are going through, so of course they are going to be attracted to it just as they were to Evan Hanson.

There is enough room for everyone and everyones opinion is relevent regardless of age. I think there are a hell of a lot more intelligent teenagers than adults in your country at the moment...

[BroadwayRox3588]

Impossible2 said: "Your post kind of reeks of 'Broadway' being for a certain kind of audience when it is not. For it to remain relevant and evolve it must have variety and be for everyone."

I apologize, but you have misunderstood the point of my post. My point was merely to point out the difference in perspectives. Someone who is going into a show to bask in the glory of their faves is not going to view the show with the same perspective as someone who is going in looking to evaluate what works and doesn't work about a show. I even made it a point to emphasize that both perspectives are valid.

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

I love 30 Rock and I loved the first and latest season of Kimmy Schmidt but I never liked the movie Mean Girls. I never thought it was nearly as smart or funny or quotable as other films like it. It's a watered down Heathers for sure, but it's also a safe, watered down version of a lot of smart teen comedies and it also contains a false and ultimately shallow lesson. The musical isn't much different. But it did hit a chord with a generation of teens (my generation) that are now adults and it looks like the musical introduced a new generation of teens to the material and they seem to really like it.

[GeorgeandDot]

This was a good season simply because it gave us The Band's Visit.

[BroadwayConcierge]

GeorgeandDot said: "This was a good season simply because it gave us The Band's Visit."

Precisely

[Mister Matt]

This thread is funny!

American Idiot was a hit with the kids but still had huge issues with the book. 

It was a huge hit with me, my husband, our friends and my 72 year-old mother at the time.  None of us had any issues with its unconventional book.

Ok, that is true critics wise. They made it clear this year that they only loved 1 new show. That's still 1 more than they loved in 2010.

Fela received across-the-board raves with critics, much like The Band's Visit, Passing Strange and Jersey Boys.  Sometimes the voters align with critics and sometimes they don't.

Whereas 2010 was still a toss up come tony time since all shows were equally bland. 

I can't imagine describing either Fela or American Idiot as "bland".  Not to everyone's tastes, that makes sense.  But "bland"?  Computer says "no". 

Was anyone defending Million Dollar Quartet, Fela, Memphis, or Addams Family to their grave on these boards like they did for Spongebob?

As with every single season, the answer is always "yes".  There are always the disgruntled fans defending a losing show to their graves.  In 2010, there were loads of defenders of both Fela and The Addams Family.  The latter consisted of fans of the show, fans of the Lane, fans of Neuwirth, fans of Hoffman, fans of Rodriguez, fans of Lippa, and every possible combination of the aforementioned fans.

But audiences in total seemed to be more enthusiastic for Mean Girls, Spongebob, and Bands Visit than any new musical in 2010. 

Why does it seem that audiences are more enthusiastic about Band's Visit than Memphis?  I mean, they might be, but it's not as if TBV has caught America by storm and word-of-mouth turned it into a Broadway juggernaut or anything.  Audiences in total were more enthusiastic about Mamma Mia than any musical this season or 2009-2010, but it's not really indicative of the season as a whole.  It's really just about that show. Every season is different.  That's just how it is.

So it looks like this:

2018 had by far the best #1 musical; 2010 and 2018's 2-4 shows were about even; and 2010 had the best #5 and #6 musicals.

Is that what it looks like?  It doesn't look like something else?  Maybe something that doesn't include Come From Away?  Maybe it looks like this:



Strangely, I never really liked Mean Girls because when the moviecame out, it just seemed like a watered down Heathers to me.

That is indeed strange.

Heathers was crap, Mean Girls was a masterpiece x

Even more strange.

It's a watered down Heathers for sure, but it's also a safe, watered down version of a lot of smart teen comedies and it also contains a false and ultimately shallow lesson.

Okay, but like, fer shur-fer shur, Heathers is like, LITERALLY, a totally watered-down Carrie, werd-fer-werd.  And we all know Waitress is nothing more than a watered-down Sweeney Todd, ammirite?  *high-five*

The 2017-2018 season is much better than the 2009-2010 season. At least they had four musical scores to nominate. 

Unless you didn't like most of the scores, of course.  Or you don't judge a season by its number of original scores written for musicals because you are acutely how much fun you had seeing Rock of Ages and Xanadu as opposed to Scandalous, Brooklyn, Thou Shalt Not or The People in the Picture.


Personally, I like Clueless and Easy A better than Mean Girls OR Heathers.