“The Room” of Theatre

[Call_me_jorge]

What show do you believe is “The Room” of Broadway? Where it’s so laughably bad, it’s almost genius?

[Alex Kulak2]

The London Cast Recording of Passion. The woman playing Fosca is so hammy I crack up every time I listen to her.

[Sondheimite]

Disaster the Musical comes to mind!

[musikman]

What makes The Room - and other similarly campy films like it - so appealing and unintentionally hilarious is that it was presented as being a serious and real drama. Whether you liked it or not, pieces like Disaster were intentionally made to be silly/campy/over the top and absurd so it’s not the same category, at least to me.

The most recent example I can think of was the the Jekyll & Hyde revival several years ago. They took themselves so seriously and it was an utter campy, catastrophic mess. I can’t recall the last time I saw an audience laugh so hard *at* the show rather than with it.

the only other broadway show I can think of like this was In My Life.  Oy!

[ColorTheHours048]

Pretty much any Wildhorn show fits this bill.

[Alex Kulak2]

Wildhorn is interesting to me because how much he plays into tropes. Take the recording of Jekyll and Hyde with Hasselhoff in the lead role. That is one of my favorite recordings of a show, because it somehow earnestly combines every stereotype surrounding bad musical theatre (strange source material, stunt-casted lead, 90s power ballads making up the score).

[Emmaloucbway]

My first thought was IN MY LIFE too. I never saw it but based on what I’ve heard about the show you could make similarities to The Room.

[Impossible2]

The Carousel revival...

As far as concerts go Britney's Femme Fatale/CIrcus Tours have to be up there.

I have never laughed so hard in my life.

[10086sunset]

The current Carousel is near the top of the list.

For a throwback, I'd say Blood Brothers.

[JBroadway]

To the 2 people who said the Carousel revival:

I would be curious to hear your reasoning. It seems to be that you just didn't like it, and so you're taking the opportunity to proclaim your dislike for it by comparing it to The Room. Do you really think that it's "so laughably bad that it's almost genius," as the OP put it? The Carousel revival has had numerous award nominations, decent ticket sales, better-than-expected reviews, positive word of mouth from at least SOME people about certain parts of the show, and a few well-respected performances. I'm not saying that makes it good, or that you have to like it because of those things. But do you REALLY, truly think that it comes anywhere near being an equivalent to The Room in terms of its place in film culture? If so, I have a hard time beveling you really know anything about The Room, or even that you have enough context of theatre history to claim that Carousel comes even close to the level of disaster of some things that have played on Broadway. 

Just because YOU didn't like the show, and just because many people hate it, doesn't mean it is at all applicable to this question. 

[msmp]

I'd rule out the Carousel revival based on the fact that it's apparently fantastic in terms of performances/singing. There's not a single performance in The Room that even comes close to the word "fantastic."

For me, it's gotta be Carrie. It has the source material of a solid drama (really, the Stephen King book had potential as a stage show, though maybe not a musical), ridiculous staging and plot points, and was a financial fiasco. But then you get the Off-Broadway revival some years later which breathes new life into it and it's looked back as being utterly terrible, but in a so-terrible-you-almost-can't-believe-it kind of way.

[qolbinau]

I agree it could be Carrie...but the reason it’s hard to reconcile for me is if we look back at some of the songs and performances there are moments any good musical would kill to have. I can’t think of many moments in the musical theatre cannon that can top Betty Buckley screaming “Eve Was Weak”. I mean it’s moments like these that are the whole reason why there is still interest in the show. That kind of performance and moment is something not found anywhere in The Room, or Jekyll & Hyde. It’s good because it’s so good.

[10086sunset]

JBroadway said: "To the 2 people who said the Carousel revival:

I would be curious to hear your reasoning. It seems to be that you just didn't like it, and so you're taking the opportunity to proclaim your dislike for it by comparing it to The Room. Do you really think that it's "so laughably bad that it's almost genius," as the OP put it? The Carousel revival has had numerous award nominations, decent ticket sales, better-than-expected reviews, positive word of mouth from at least SOMEpeople about certain parts of the show, and a few well-respected performances. I'm not saying that makes it good, or that you have to like it because of those things. But do you REALLY, truly think that it comes anywhere near being an equivalent toThe Room in terms of its place in film culture? If so, I have a hard time beveling you really know anything about The Room, or even that you have enough context of theatre history to claim that Carousel comes even close to the level of disaster of some things that have played on Broadway.

Just because YOU didn't like the show, and just because many people hate it, doesn't mean it is at all applicable to this question."

 

JBroadway, 

Just because YOU liked the show, doesn't mean the show is good or that we are not allowed to think the production is a massive misfire of a great American musical.

My reasoning?

1. Joshua Henry and Jessie Mueller have all the chemistry of two dead fish.

2. The cuts to the source material are criminal.

3. Changing what is perhaps the most pivotal moment of the show as a response to what's been talking place throughout the entertainment industry is a cheap cop out, which ultimately hurts the story. 

4. The finale is awful. The end moments between Julie and Billy are horribly staged, and horribly played.

5. It's over choreographed. 

6. The costumes are a complete misfire. Billy's outfits are comical. 

7.  The show is played with no stakes. R&H didn't draw this show up to be played with little to no stakes. 

8. While I know this view is very much in the minority, I thought Mendez played it too fast and loose. Guess I just wanted her to pull back more. 

At the end of the day, the show received fairly decidedly mixed reviews. Like a fair majority,  it seems that you and I are on those opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to this production. 

My only issue with your post is your statement of that you have a hard time believing I may not know anything about The Room or theater history. It's insulting. Look, you can't compare a crappy, low budget film to one of the great American musicals. Is The Room crap? Yeah. Is Carousel equally bad? No, it's not. The source material alone ends the comparison. This said, comparing Carousel, this production to the original work is downright laughable. The last revival was beautiful and truly caught the essence and beauty of the show. 
 

[JBroadway]

But everything you just said are reasons why you thought it was bad. The reason I say it seems like you don’t know The Room is because The Room is more than just a bad movie. It’s a movie that has gained a huge cult-following because it was SO bad that people love to watch it, to laugh, and to make fun of it.

Whether I liked it, or whether you disliked it is irrelevant. I’m not saying any of this because I liked the show, I’m saying it because this revival of Carousel simply does not occupy that same place in our theatre culture as The Room does in film. No matter how bad YOU thought it was. Nobody is going to see it just to laugh at it. It hasn’t gained a cult-following simply because of how bad it is. It isn’t widely regarded by the entire theatre community as one of the worst productions of all time - if it were, the reviews would not just be “decidedly mixed” as you put it. They would be downright pans. It wouldn’t have been nominated for any awards, and it wouldn’t be pulling in anywhere near the numbers that it is. We’re not talking about “terrible,” we’re talking about a project so extremely disastrous that it cements its place in our culture as the prime, go-to example of a failed movie. And that is just not true of this production of Carousel. No matter what any one off us individually thought of it.

I think Cats is the worst musical ever written, but you don’t see me see me saying it’s the theatre equivalent of the Room, because I know it is much too successful, and to genuinely appreciated by the masses.

[CATSNYrevival]

JBroadway said: "I think Cats is the worst musical ever written, but you don’t see me see me saying it’s the theatre equivalent of the Room, because I know it is much too successful, and togenuinely appreciated by the masses."

It’s the writing you have a problem with? T.S. Eliot isn’t good enough for you?

 

[10086sunset]

JBroadway, I understand your point. The problem is something I mentioned in my earlier post. 

It's impossible to compare The Room to any Broadway show. The production values alone, acting, etc. on any Broadway show will eclipse anything seen in The Room. Under that guise, yeah, of course this production of Carousel is better. 

The fault lies with the original post and the original question.

[Impossible2]

JBroadway said: 

I think Cats is the worst musical ever written, but you don’t see me see me saying it’s the theatre equivalent of the Room, because I know it is much too successful, and togenuinely appreciated by the masses."

That still doesn't make it any good, Avatar is the highest grossing film ever made, so what, it is still junk.

This whole notion that success = quality stuns me on a daily basis.

My Top 10 favourite films box office tallies added together have probably grossed less than The Room, that doesn't mean they aren't brilliant films or that have no merit because they didn't make any money.

[Impossible2]

JBroadway said: "To the 2 people who said the Carousel revival:

I would be curious to hear your reasoning. It seems to be that you just didn't like it, and so you're taking the opportunity to proclaim your dislike for it by comparing it to The Room. Do you really think that it's "so laughably bad that it's almost genius," as the OP put it? The Carousel revival has had numerous award nominations, decent ticket sales, better-than-expected reviews, positive word of mouth from at least SOMEpeople about certain parts of the show, and a few well-respected performances. I'm not saying that makes it good, or that you have to like it because of those things. But do you REALLY, truly think that it comes anywhere near being an equivalent toThe Room in terms of its place in film culture? If so, I have a hard time beveling you really know anything about The Room, or even that you have enough context of theatre history to claim that Carousel comes even close to the level of disaster of some things that have played on Broadway.

Just because YOU didn't like the show, and just because many people hate it, doesn't mean it is at all applicable to this question."

It is very difficult for people with an emotional attachment or nostalgic appreciation for something to understand why others don't hold the same opinion they do. You are tied to it by memories, we are not.

It was the first time I had seen the show and the entire thing was just utterly absurd to me. 

The story itself was muddled and ridiculous and I found it almost impossible to work out what was even going on for the most part as it was so incoherent. 

Why is there a lone horse waltzing across the stage?

Who is this old man wandering around the stage groping people?

Wait they just met and now they're married? What?

Who is this chubby girl? Oh good at least she found a chubby boy to make her happy.

Surprise, surprise the carny is a criminal and a wife beater. (but **** he can sing)

Why are these people beached on rocks like seals? Oh they're eating clams, I was worried.

Wait he died? (seriously has there ever been a more down played stabbing)

So the criminal gets a second chance because his daughter learnt nothing from her fathers amazing legacy?

Oh good he did good despite ruining the lives of everyone he so much as breathed near, what a great person he is.

URGH I wish they'd have stabbed me instead, what a load of utter bollocks!

The only reason I can see that people ever liked it is because it is so bad it is good, not for me.

So yes, it is every bit as bad as The Room.

 

[ggersten]

To be an equivalent of The Room, it needs to be a vanity project, preferably starring the vain person on stage.  It's the latter requirement that eliminates most Broadway productions.  Scandalous, Amazing Grace, In My Life, even Soul Doctor seemed to be vanity projects.  Maybe Hot Feet (although that may have been a corporate vanity project), but the creative teams weren't on stage.  I was going to suggest Dude or Via Galactica, based on reputation alone because I have neither seen nor listened to the scores of those two shows, but again, I don't think the creatives were on stage.  .  

You are more likely to find The Room type shows off broadway.  

[astromiami]

It is not Broadway, but I think Perfect Crime is absolutely it.

[JBroadway]

Impossible2 said: “It is very difficult for people with an emotional attachment or nostalgic appreciation for something to understand why others don't hold the same opinion they do. You are tied to it by memories, we are not.”


I really wish I didn’t have to keep saying this, but my opinion of Carousel or this production is not relevant, nor is yours. If you read my posts above, I make that exceedingly clear. This is about its place in theatre culture.

[Call_me_jorge]

Honeymoon in Vegas was DEFINITELY a vanity project for Tony Danza.

[BritCrit]

JBroadway said: "I think Cats is the worst musical ever written, but you don’t see me see me saying it’s the theatre equivalent of the Room, because I know it is much too successful, and togenuinely appreciated by the masses."

I’ve seen Cats on stage in 2015. The criticisms about its story (or lack thereof) are totally valid, but I like the poems it is based on, and also like the choreography and costumes. I think it’s too well-made to be dismissed as a ‘The Room’ type fiasco.

However, Lloyd Webber has been behind some truly terrible vanity projects. Starlight Express (Nothing says ‘vanity project’ like a musical about trains on roller-skates) and Love Never Dies spring to mind...

P.S I’m surprised no-one has mentioned The Rocky Horror Show on this thread. After all, it was the original trashy, campy cult hit...

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

ADO ANNIE D'YSQUITH PRESENTS: Musical Theatre Classics in One Tommy Wiseau GIF

Spring Awakening:

Carousel: 

The Music Man (specifically, the Pickalittle song): 

Miss Saigon: 

Dear Evan Hansen: