Name Change for Gypsy Robe Ceremony- Page 1

[behindthescenes2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 2:30pm

Oh brother!  Talk about asinine and absolutely over the top "PC" - I mean WTF.  Go ahead destroy the true meaning of the ceremony. It will always be known as the gypsy robe no matter what you call it...Snowflake Cape Ceremony, Ultra-sensitive Garment Give away - sad.  Just stupid and waste of time and brain cells.  But hey, I am surprised they don't go further and make sure everyone in the show receives a robe so that no one's feelings are hurt or that they feel slighted.  Just BS. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 2:35pm

What next? Are they going to change the name of Gypsy of the year? Or change the name of the musical gypsy?

[JBroadway]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 2:38pm

Jesus. I knew a post like this would be coming in the next few minutes. Have fun continuing to rant about this while the world moves on. To think that you would call people "ultra-sensitive" or "asinine" for this, when you yourself just had the most childish tantrum on a message board over something that will have literally no negative effect on your life. To think that someone could be so lacking in self-awareness is astounding. 

Never mind that the word is literally a racial slur - anything to protect the frustrated white people clinging to their comfortable ways.

Also hilarious to think that the "true meaning" of the ceremony would somehow be ruined by making the name less offensive but keeping the practice exactly the same. The true meaning of the ceremony is about community, inclusion, and respecting people's experiences and history. 

Updated On: 4/18/18 at 02:38 PM

[JSquared2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 2:39pm

Moronic decision.  Per the article, you can vote on the AEA website for the new name of the robe. 

Among the options: the Baum Bradley Robe, the Legacy Robe, the Chorus Robe, The Robe and the Rose Robe.

All equally ridiculous.  And yes, I'm sure we can all now look forward to the "Baum Bradley of the Year" show!!

[SeanD2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 2:39pm

JBroadway said: "Jesus.I knew a post like this would be coming in the next few minutes. Have fun continuing to rant about this while the world moves on.To think that you would call people "ultra-sensitive" or "asinine" for this, when you yourself just had the mostchildish tantrum on a message boardover something that will have literally no negative effect on your life. To think that someone could be so lacking in self-awareness is astounding.

Never mind that the word is literally a racial slur - anything to protect the frustratedwhite people clinging to their comfortable ways.

Also hilarious to think that the "true meaning" of the ceremony would somehowbe ruined by making the name less offensive but keeping the practice exactly the same."

YUP!

[behindthescenes2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:08pm

I am sure all of the people called "gypsy" are ready to march on theatre row with just how offensive this is.  It is picayune gesture at best and I want to know just how many gypsies you might know in real life.  It is a reference to constant movement from place to place or show to show as it were.  I am self-aware enough to know when I see a ruse and a false pretense of good works or actions. This has nothing to do with being white and again you point the finger of just how horrible white people are when there is really no solid foundation for this stupid gesture.  Whatever, you'll not be satisfied until every bit of discussion you don't like is silenced, which is a sad state of mind.  You are free to your opinion but you don't have a right to say that I am not able to express my own.  The word is the meaning in this ceremony and is not a damning of a population or Romani peoples, but you don't get it, or just want to be in yet another false stance of righteousness.  Have fun in your pc ivory tower!  Meanwhile, I am thinking of the people who were proud to be know as broadway gypsies, which to them meant strength, resilience, tenaciousness, and above all else talent.   Have fun with your sanctimonious outrage and pedestal, while we move on to be sure for a more meaning title such as "That Lady Rose Lee" change it "Roma Rose Lee".  Whatever, life's too short for this kind of drab, unimportant, and clearly uncreative exercise in trying to correct a perceived slighted wrong.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:10pm

Were behindthescenes2's posts written with a generator? It feels like it!

[haterobics]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:10pm

behindthescenes2 said: "you point the finger of just how horrible white people are when there is really no solid foundation for this stupid gesture."

Err... Hitler was white. #caseclosed

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:13pm

My Carnac the Magnificent-level prediction is that more of the same people who were mad at the renaming of Sambo's restaurants and the changing of the Chinese restaurant scene in A Christmas Story are sure to come out of the woodwork.

[SeanD2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:21pm

behindthescenes2 said: "I am sure all of the people called "gypsy" are ready to march on theatre row with just how offensive this is. It is picayune gesture at best and I want to know just how many gypsies you might know in real life. It is a reference to constant movement from place to place or show to show as it were. I am self-aware enough to know when I see a ruse and a false pretense of good works or actions. This has nothing to do with being white and again you point the finger of just how horrible white people are when there is really no solid foundation for this stupid gesture."

Replace your use of the word "gypsy" with "n*****" and see if you feel the same.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:28pm

behindthescenes2 said: "I want to know just how many gypsies you might know in real life."

First of all, I know a few Roma people. And even if I didn't, why should it matter? They exist in this world, and they have made it clear they don't like the word "gypsy." Why do you only care about people you know? 

 

"It is a reference to constant movement from place to place or show to show as it were"

Yes, it is. The problem here isn't that people are using it as a racial slur. The problem is that the word simply IS one, and using for other purposes (while not as bad as using it as a slur) still demonstrates a lack of care toward the word's racist history. 

 

"I am self-aware enough to know when I see a ruse and a false pretense of good works or actions."

 

This narrative you've created about pretense is something that you've constructed to protect yourself from the discomfort of having to change your ways. You tell yourself that they don't really mean it so that you can feel good about ignoring social justice issues. It may come as a surprise, but some people ACTUALLY care about the plight of marginalized people. Some people actually care about people besides themselves.

 

" you point the finger of just how horrible white people are when there is really no solid foundation for this stupid gesture."

 

How about centuries of persecution, racism, genocide, to name a few? How about all the racism that still occurs today? How about the fact that so many white people like yourself refuse to listen when you are told that your actions are hurtful? How about the privilege that white people experience that allows them to ignore problems in the world, and get mad at people who don't ignore them? 

 

Whatever, you'll not be satisfied until every bit of discussion you don't like is silenced, which is a sad state of mind.

We're having a discussion right now. You made your points, I argued against them, then you argued against mine, and now I'm arguing against your. 

 

"You are free to your opinion but you don't have a right to say that I am not able to express my own."

 

Agreed. I just think your opinion is disgusting and pathetic, and so I'm voicing that opinion. 

 

The word is the meaning in this ceremony and is not a damning of a population or Romani peoples, but you don't get it

I get that. But words carry power and they carry historical baggage. and the fact (not opinion - FACT) is that Romani people find it hurtful when the word is used - even to mean other things. And that is their right - who are you to disagree with them? 

 

This is the last post I'm going to make in this thread. I'm sure you'll be delighted to respond to this post and get the last word - so I'll give you that. As you say, life's too short. 

 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:31pm

SonofRobbieJ, who are you to say whether something is or isn't a slur, when you're not part of the affected group?

[geoffreyC]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:33pm

this is incredibly laughable and ridiculous.  The pc and sj warriors are on the march!  Where will they strike next while Rome burns around them?  

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:38pm

Equity is rapidly becoming the biggest joke. The LABOR UNION for American stage actors and stage managers... is actually putting at the very top of its agenda getting a Tony category for ensembles and making a PC name change for a 60-year-old tradition. Truly laughable and embarrassing.

[LesWickedly]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:42pm

So many snowflakes here upset about the change of a name that many have described as offensive. Good on Equity! 

[SeanD2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:44pm

BroadwayConcierge said: "Equity is rapidly becoming the biggest joke. The LABOR UNION for American stage actors and stage managers... is actually putting at the very top of its agenda getting a Tony category for ensembles and making a PC name change for a 60-year-old tradition.Truly laughable and embarrassing."

Laughable to raise the profile of all their members through awards recognition and embarrassing to stop associating an honor given to your members with what many people believe is a racial slur? I think we have different definitions of those words

[Rainah]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:51pm

Ever since hearing about Romani people's experiences with the g-slur and the continuing racism they face, I've been uncomfortable with how it is used in american theatre.

It's difficult, because to my knowledge there are very few Romani people in North America, and the word has grown into its own meaning, and a meaning that isn't really negative at all. To most people in North America, the word has connotations of travelling, of wonder, of loving life. I can understand someone who hasn't been exposed to the concerns feeling surprised and upset at the suggestion that it's harmful.

But that doesn't change the history of the word, nor how it's used today against Romani people. And at the end of the day, I think we do need to prioritize the feelings and experiences of Romani people over theatre traditions, no matter how well loved. Traditions grow and change and reflect the world we live in. It's time for a new word.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 3:57pm

LizzieCurry said: "SonofRobbieJ, who are you to say whether something is or isn't a slur, when you're not part of the affected group?"

Obviously my post was deleted because I used equivalent slurs to make the point that the word 'gypsy' is a racial slur.  If my point was unclear to you Lizzie, I deeply apologize.  What I was trying to do with my provocative language was to point out that the word 'gypsy' was, in fact, a racial slur and we should step away from using it.  Though I'm certain the ceremony of the Gypsy Robe was not intended to offend the Roma population, it doesn't matter.  I brought up the Washington Redskins in my post.  How on God's green earth is that still ok????  Well...it's not.  The 'Gypsy' Robe is not ok either, though it's history means no offense.  We can use language that isn't racially charged, right?  Like...there are better words to describe chorus members than one that offends a group that was targeted by the Third Reich and was sent to the camps and gas chambers.  

I don't apologize for using the language I used in my original post because I was trying to draw a correlation between the words I typed and the word 'gypsy'.  But if the true intent behind my post was lost, then I do apologize.  

[behindthescenes2]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 4:04pm

I am happy that this has spurred the discussion, and that is my last thought on the subject  from the desk that, according to some, issues pathetic and disgusting opinions. A statement that doesn't achieve anything except make the source feel better and vindicated, but not necessarily valid or correct.

[ilysespieces]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 4:11pm

LesWickedly said: "So many snowflakes here upset about the change of a name that many have described as offensive. Good on Equity!"

I always find it funny that people who call those who care about other's feelings "snowflakes" are the whitest and most fragile of all. Case in point, OP's tantrum.

[Elegance101]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 4:12pm

Equity isn't saying what YOU can say on your own time. They are deciding what THEY say. This literally affects no one except now it will be the "Chorus Robe" or something.

I can't believe how hard our lives are that we have to change a single word to make a world of difference to people who have been hurt by that very word. Like when a boy you know asks to go by female or gender neutral pronouns. So offensive of them to not compromise their identity for my convenience...

[XWW]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 4:13pm

“What next? Are they going to change the name of Gypsy of the year? Or change the name of the musical gypsy?”

The Gypsy Robe ceremony is for the ensemble member who has moved around the most. The reason it’s called that is because of stereotypes about the Romani people. The musical Gypsy is different. Gypsy Rose Lee was a real person and the show is called that because it’s her name. Those are fundamentally different situations. In about fifty years, people will cringe at the idea of an official ceremony with that name. 

Updated On: 4/18/18 at 04:13 PM

[bwaylyric]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 4:22pm

Dainty June Robe

[SueBee06]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 5:47pm

I posted this on the other board, but thought it might be helpful to understanding why the term is offensive.

It's a name that was given to the Romani people, incorrectly thought to be from Egypt when they were driven out of their home country. In Europe, especially, it's used as a slur synonymous with thief or cheat or dirty. The Romani became nomadic because there were (and are) anti-Gypsy laws on the books (think Irish not welcome here). There are in the US as well although they are working on abolishing those. Yes, in the US, we see it more as a term for carefree or nomadic, but given why they became nomadic, I can see how it's not an okay term.

Think of the word "gypped" which did come from the word Gypsy. Anti-semites would use "J-wed" in its place to mean the same thing. See the problem?

Just as the name redskin is now recognized as a slur and offensive to Native Americans, surely we can stop using the word Gypsy. I've pasted a link below that explains a lot of the history and has some excellent links within as well. http://www.jimchines.com/2016/11/racism-and-the-romani-people/

Updated On: 4/18/18 at 05:47 PM

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 4/18/18 at 6:10pm

Since when in the hell was this a problem?!?