The Problem With Broadway Revivals: They Revive Gender Stereotypes, Too

[wssinsider]

Posted: 2/22/18 at 12:13pm

https://nyti.ms/2BMwNTA

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 2/22/18 at 12:18pm

Clickable: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/theater/gender-stereotypes-carousel-my-fair-lady-pretty-woman.html

Also, what?!: (The production declined to make Ms. Mueller available for an interview.)

[greensgreens]

Posted: 2/22/18 at 12:55pm

This is getting ridiculous. Revivals should above all else remain true to the original author's work or simply not be produced (unless you have special permission or the creative team is revisiting their work). It is not our job as a society to alter every past work of art until it matches our current sensibilities. If you don't like how the women are portrayed in Carousel; don't do it, don't see it. Write your own version of Liliom that changes how the women are conceived and meets your standards.

If there are gender stereotypes in a work, let them play out. Let the actors and creative team find ways to address these problems and make them work. Just look to the work of Laura Osnes, who is one of the few who can portray these classic leading lady roles full of stereotypes. She is able, through her acting choices, to imbue the performance with her own strength and character, creating much more nuanced and real performances from these simple stereotypes. I think leaving revivals intact can be MORE enlightening when there is discord between the times reflected in the piece and our modern sensibilities.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/22/18 at 1:05pm

I’m with Stitt on this one. I don’t think she is saying alter anything, it’s just a perfect storm of terrible depictions of women. Also, I think it’s valid to say why is tripe like Pretty Woman on the table at this point. It’s even annoying that Jenna gets beaten in Waitress. Aren't there better things for women to overcome than men at this point? It’s so male-centric it is sickening. You don’t have musical where men endure abuse and rape onstage to find themselves.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/22/18 at 1:23pm

An unspoken aspect of this article is that Broadway is relying more and more on the familiarity of revivals and adaptations of hugely successful movies and TV shows, with a dearth of original work being developed and supported. Barring special events/acts (Springsteen, Michael Moore, etc.) the 2017-18 season, when complete, will only boast 5 original new plays (only 1 of which was not a limited nonprofit run and/or a transfer), and only 2 (two!) musicals with totally original scores (both based on movies, one of them very commercially successful).

Of course, this may just be a reflection of popular tastes; the masses (generally) don't much go for "original," and it seems that trend is climbing.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/23/18 at 5:36pm

Bettyboy72 said: "Aren't there better things for women to overcome than men at this point?."

To be fair, that's still a major problem.

Though I'm on the side of not being so reliant on reviving and adapting problematic work if you're not doing it in a thoughtful, critical way but out of laziness and an attempt to appeal to a mass audience.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 2/23/18 at 10:16pm

I love new works. However, just because we are now suddenly “woke” in 2018 doesn’t mean we can’t still do classic musicals that are dated, but still great.

Also, My Fair Lady is, if anything, saying “Don’t be an ***hole like Higgins.” His poor treatment of Eliza is meant to be horrifying to the point that it’s ridiculous, and therefore funny. Also, Eliza is still one of the top ten best roles ever written for a woman in musical theatre. Anyone who finds the show offensive needs to lighten up.

Slow news day at the NYT, evidently.

[Fetus]

Posted: 2/23/18 at 10:27pm

They make a compelling argument. I don't think there is anything wrong with reviving any of these works, because My Fair Lady and Carousel both have the potential for incredible productions, but it is discerning to see so many productions opening around the same time with sexist undertones, especially given today's social climate and the rise of the Me Too movement.

[binau]

Posted: 2/23/18 at 11:15pm

I basically called this on a thread RE: Carousel. It’s so predictable. When is Elon Musk going to take us to Mars? I want out.

Where are these ‘feminist’ concerns when it comes to the terrible treatment of women in almost every Islamic country on earth and many Islamic communities within Western countries? No where to be seen. They’d rather spend time complaining that a musical that is 70 years old is, surprise surprise, reflecting the values of a culture 70 years ago. Shocking!

Updated On: 2/23/18 at 11:15 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 2:22am

qolbinau said: "Where are these ‘feminist’ concernswhen it comes to the terrible treatment of women in almost every Islamic country on earth and many Islamic communities within Western countries? No where to be seen. "

Oh, good. I was waiting for someone to trot out that old chestnut. Thanks for not disappointing.

[binau]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 2:50am

It actually is disappointing. If these ‘feminists’ want an icon they should look to Ayan Hirsi (though I bet these same people would be a critic rather than comrade). Rather than tackle the real issues - women who are oppressed in the most misogynistic ways it’s actually so shocking it still exists today - they’d rather complain about an ancient musical that obviously is not going to be written 70 years ago with the values of 2018. So silly. It’s about understanding context. Not suppressing our artistic legacy. 

Updated On: 2/24/18 at 02:50 AM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 10:06am

qolbinau said: "It’s about understanding context. Not suppressing our artistic legacy."

This.

 

[bk]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 12:07pm

Yes, context is everything, and the inability for some to understand that simple construct in these humorless, sour times is kind of disgusting.  The article and those quoted within are just trying to be on what they think is the right side of the fence.  Some of the quotes are truly idiotic - I don't need to name which, but if my daughter were still ten or twelve I would absolutely take her to Carousel or any other show because she was, at that age, very smart, and she would have loved them as she loved every musical we saw together back then.

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 12:14pm

qolbinau said: "Where are these ‘feminist’ concernswhen it comes to the terrible treatment of women in almost every Islamic country on earth and many Islamic communities within Western countries? No where to be seen. They’d rather spend time complaining that a musical that is 70 years old is, surprise surprise, reflecting the values of a culture 70 years ago. Shocking!"

There are plenty of people doing this work, but you're not going to read about them on a Broadway message board. 

Also, one can be concerned about both, it's not one or the other. This is the kind of logic that can make it impossible to have a conversation because of the inability to stay on topic. 

[trentsketch]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 1:50pm

Are there shows with really outdated gender stereotypes? Yes. Obviously. Theater is centuries old. Society changes. What was acceptable at one point quickly (or not so quickly) falls out of the realm of the appropriate. Does that mean we erase history? No. The smart approach is to contextualize it. Bring it up with the producers, the creative team, and the cast as a jumping off point for artistic expression and interpretation. Discuss your approach in the director's notes. Don't lean into the really offensive stuff if at all possible. And if you have no other way around it, do not glorify it. No sense lingering on, say, the spousal abuse moment in Carousel when so much of the rest of the show is right.

Look at that wonderful Lincoln Center The King and I revival. They found ways to give the female characters agency in their own story through interpretation and performance, not alteration or censorship. It didn't always land as well as the more straight forward interpretation, but the effort was made to present the show as originally written for a modern audience with a modern understanding.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/24/18 at 10:59pm

I still don't understand why women are just supposed to accept the outdated context, but other minorities are allowed outrage and changes are made. Should we accept Ching and Ling in Anything Goes just because racism and "chinky" characters were acceptable then? Hell no. 

Also, if you don't think Carousel romanticizes abuse, you're in a dreamworld. And this time it will be a man of color abusing a white woman. Perfect. 

And the more I think about Waitress the more Im grossed out. I know its based on a film, but a married doctor unethically beds his patient, who is in an physically and sexually abusive relationship. Yuck.

[TheatreRocks]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 12:38am

Kiss Me Kate revival 2019 WOOOO!!!!!!

[Dave28282]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 5:19am

Bettyboy72 said: "And the more I think about Waitress the more Im grossed out. I know its based on a film, but a marrieddoctor unethically beds his patient, who is in an physically and sexually abusive relationship. Yuck."

So you can only handle stories about rainbows and unicorns? Welcome to the real world, where dark sides exist.

Including abusive relationships, dark era's, history, different societies, different worldviews, unhealthy situations, war, abuse, and the list is endless.

Would you care to elaborate on why unethical choices of certain characters in certain stories gross you out so much that you complain about them on a message board?

Do you understand the given of storytelling? And do you understand the importance of telling stories about how different times and places had different norms between men and women?

Updated On: 2/25/18 at 05:19 AM

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 7:45pm

Lol, the fact that they're bringing this up about My Fair Lady is ridiculous. The entire point of the story is that Higgins is an abusive and misogynistic PoS. Are we supposed to just have characters shooting butterflies and rainbows out of their a**es with no flaws whatsoever in today's pearl-clutching climate? 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 8:18pm

Probably shouldn't revive most of Shakepeare's plays, either.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 9:01pm

So, all shows must take a political stand point? Am I now not going to enjoy the "The Music Man" because of the rise of the present women's movement, and that men mustall be frauds, and trick women I to falling for them? No. It's a love story. At some point we need to stop looking for the appropriation of shows, and enjoy and escape within them.

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 9:24pm

Fashionguru _23 wrote:

"At some point we need to stop looking for the appropriation of shows, and enjoy and escape within them."

Mmm, I don't think that's going to fly with today's arbiters of "culture."

The only shows that will be henceforth allowed on our stages will be things like Hamilton, Fun Home, and others of their ilk.

Happy theatregoing.

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 10:38pm

Don't get me wrong, having shows about or focusing on social issues is great and important. But people also like just going to the theatre for an escape every once in a while. This obsession with shoving identity politics into every single thing that comes to Broadway, to the point where people have to worry about the moral consequences of enjoying a classic Golden Age musical just because it's not conforming exactly to the context and sensibilities of this very day in time, is ridiculous. It's easy to just...not see a show if you don't like it, lol. 

Updated On: 2/25/18 at 10:38 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 11:10pm

Elfuhbuh wrote: : "This obsession with shoving identity politics into every single thing that comes to Broadway, to the point where people have to worry about the moral consequences of enjoying a classic Golden Age musical just because it's not conforming exactly to the context and sensibilities of this very day in time, is ridiculous."

Ridiculous (at least this kind of ridiculous) is the new normal. Welcome to our new world.

"It's easy to just...not see a show if you don't like it, lol. "

I think you're missing the point here. It's not about choosing-- quite the opposite, in fact. It's about depriving people of choices. It's about providing only what is deemed acceptable, and quashing/extirpating/banning everything else.

Sounds great, doesn't it? 

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 2/25/18 at 11:54pm

Oh yeah, I know it's about depriving choices, and that's what annoys me. It's dangerous thinking to try to "ban" every single piece of art that has something even remotely problematic in it. If you start doing that, then eventually, you have to strip away everything, and you have nothing left. Humanity is inherently problematic, and while it's never good to glorify that, it's also a reality that we need to face.

I don't like Dear Evan Hansen. I think the show is preachy for all the wrong reasons and does a terrible job at representing mental illness. However, I'm not about to go writing up pretentious thinkpieces and claiming the show is Bad and that we shouldn't put up productions of it anymore. I get that the show means something to other people, so if I ever take another trip to New York, I'll just skip seeing it and find something more fitting to my tastes.