Nine Women Accuse Israel Horovitz of Sexual Misconduct

[Kad]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 12:33pm

Some really gross and previously documented (in a 1993 expose in the Boston Phoenix) accounts of misconduct against Horovitz. Even his son- Adam Horovitz of the Beastie Boys- says he believes these allegations.

This is the first notable name in the theatre world to be swept up in this reckoning, but I cannot imagine he will be the last.

Nine Women Accuse Israel Horovitz, Playwright and Mentor, of Sexual Misconduct

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 12:44pm

"This is the first notable name in the theatre world to be swept up in this reckoning."

Kad, I know his was about 17,000,000 predator-namings ago and among the very first in this extensive current reckoning, but surely you'd agree that Kevin Spacey is a notable name in the theatre world.

[Kad]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 12:46pm

Yup I completely forgot about Spacey already, possibly because I associate his current reputation more with film/television.

[A Canadian in NYC]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 12:47pm

i was wondering yesterday, after reading about Matt Lauer, who the first non-actor theatre person would be.... didn't have to wait too long.  This is really vile...  and I'm just getting really sick of these men "apologizing" once they've been outed.   Who's next??   When Ridley Scott spoke out on Spacey and Weinstein, he alluded that he knew of others - that they must be gritting their teeth waiting.... just a matter of time I guess.... sigh..... very disheartening. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 1:28pm

These people are horrific. And there are far too many of them - how many we have yet to learn about??

[CallMeAl2]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 2:05pm

A Canadian in NYC said: ".... This is really vile... and I'm just getting really sick of these men "apologizing" once they've been outed...."

What is the better alternative to apologizing? 

[Daddy Warbucks]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 2:11pm

Kad said: "This is the first notable name in the theatre world to be swept up in this reckoning, but I cannot imagine he will be the last."

I may be misunderstanding, but wouldn't Harvey Weinstein be the first?  

https://www.ibdb.com/broadway-cast-staff/harvey-weinstein-76193
 

Updated On: 11/30/17 at 02:11 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 2:23pm

I really meant a name famous for their work in theatre.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 2:52pm

Interesting how sexual misconduct allegations are already so normalized that people here are calling out Kad for his sentence construction and intentions instead of actually talking about Horovitz and his victims.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 2:59pm

CallMeAl2 said: "A Canadian in NYC said: ".... This is really vile... and I'm just getting really sick of these men "apologizing" once they've been outed...."

What is the better alternative to apologizing?"

Admittance of guilt -- instead of oops....did that bother you?  Restitution?  Castration?

 

I think the point is: it is hollow.   How can you be "sorry" when there are repeated instances?  They're only sorry to have been caught. 

[A Canadian in NYC]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 3:29pm

dramamama611 said: "CallMeAl2 said: "A Canadian in NYC said: ".... This is really vile... and I'm just getting really sick of these men "apologizing" once they've been outed...."

What is the better alternative to apologizing?"

Admittance of guilt -- instead of oops....did that bother you? Restitution? Castration?



I think the point is: it is hollow. How can you be "sorry" when there are repeated instances? They're only sorry to have been caught."

Thank you dramamama611. Hollow is the perfect description.  That is exactly what I meant.  I *get* why they are apologizing because really - what else can they say - but it seems very hollow.  And some perpetrators are still maintaining innocence which is exasperating in itself.  

Matt Lauer had a secret button to lock his office door to prevent people from coming in??? WTH??....  If that isn't premediated  behaviour then I don't know what is - and I seriously doubt he could get that installed without NBC authorizing.  I work in an office environment and there is no way I could get something like that installed without going through a lot of hoops. What were they thinking?  So for him to now apoligize seems very hollow....

same with Israel Horovitz.  Some of these girls were minors...  Stop apologizing and go directly to jail - do not pass Go and do not collect $200.

[newintown]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 4:07pm

"And some perpetrators are still maintaining innocence which is exasperating in itself."

Where would anyone get that idea that they might be considered innocent until proven guilty? How dare they? Or that an accusation alone isn't proof of guilt? Could our legal system really be that flawed?

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 4:20pm

So apologies are bull.
Maintaining innocence is bull (even if one is actually innocent, which some somehow can't begin to imagine ever being the case).

What's left?   I did it, I don't regret it and I'd do it again in a minute?  Would that be preferable?

Updated On: 11/30/17 at 04:20 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 4:27pm

Agreed, henrik - the brutality of the angry mob is as bad as the crimes committed by those men for whose heads they scream.

[Kad]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 5:25pm

I don't think an apology will ever be adequate. But making the apologies so they don't seem to be implicitly casting blame on the accuser ("I remember it differently, but I apologize if I made them feel this way..." would certainly help.

I have a hard time giving the accused the benefit of the doubt in most of these situations, particularly when there's been no instance of an accuser in this reckoning having made false allegations, yet certainly much evidence of many of the accused having done much of what they have been accused of. 

And if evidence is lacking, then it's he said, she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said. And since most these allegations cannot go to court, I'm gonna side with the shes, based on precedent.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 11/30/17 at 11:53pm

I admit I've lost track of some of the lately accused, but I can't think of anybody except Roy Moore and Donald Trump who has outright claimed that ALL of his accusers are lying. (Maybe Bill Cosby.) And the sanity of both Moore and Trump is being openly questioned in print and on TV.

Bottom line: I tend to believe accusers, too, particularly when multiple women claim to have endured the same type of attack.

But I saw a survey yesterday that claimed 5-7% of sexual assault (including rape) claims made to the police are eventually found to be false. I was shocked the number was so high.

The following blog does a pretty good job of surveying the surveys. It finds an even larger range of numbers (2-8%):

http://reason.com/blog/2017/09/11/devos-campus-rape-reports-false-title-ix

 

 

[MWShapiro]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 9:45am

I would expect Adam to believe the accusers--listen to the Beastie Boys cut "Song For The Man" (It's on "Hello Nasty", 4th cut.)

 

Updated On: 12/1/17 at 09:45 AM

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 12:18pm

It's really not a good idea to allow this to continue - the destruction of men's lives on the basis of unproven allegations. An apology made under extreme duress is not an admission of guilt and should not allow the responsible parties to invoke the death penalty in every case.

In criminal proceedings the Bill of Rights, a remarkable document for its time, gives an accused the right to due process of law. The Sixth Amendment grants the right of an accused to a public trial before an impartial jury of peers, the right to compel those with evidence of his or her innocence to testify in court, and the right to confront his or her accusers with assistance of counsel.

For the most part, the Bill of Rights does not apply to private entities such as corporations, but why would strong supporters of this document not be guided by its principles when placed in the position of a criminal court? Yesterday Jane Curtin brought up McCarthyism with reference to its similarities to the present sexual harassment incidents.

Everyone is familiar with the short reign of Senator Joe McCarthy as the chief denouncer of anyone who ever had a kind word to say about Communism, and the concurrent proceedings of the House Un-American Activities Committee. As a result of their activities the lives of many innocent people were destroyed. No one would employ them. There is also a parallel with the 18th century Salem Witch trials, the outcome of which was the hanging of fourteen women and six men based on the wild and fantastic tales told by a group of young girls. Arthur Miller in The Crucible attacked McCarthyism by drawing parallels with Salem.

The left has never let anyone forget the short reign of McCarthyism, which occurred before most here were born, for fear that the right would some day revisit these tactics and use them against the left. People should consider for a moment if there are any parallels with what is presently going on.

Across the country this explosion of sexual harassment accusations is not playing out in the same way as it is in New York. Folks see a casting director denounced by women who sought and auditioned for important roles and were rejected. Might that not furnish a motive for striking back with a false or inflated accusation? Even if that man was a disgusting creep, disgusting creeps are still entitled to equal protection under the law.

[Soozie]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 12:47pm

In réponse to OlBlueEyes......these sexual harassment and/or assault allegations lately in the press are not legal accusations tried in a court of law.  Simply, these are employees who have violated the codes of their employment.  It is not about the law where you are innocent until proven guilty.  Rather, their employers have gathered enough evidence to ascertain that the employee has violated their standards/policies for employment and have terminated their contracts. 

Updated On: 12/1/17 at 12:47 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 12:53pm

This would only be comparable to McCarthyism if McCarthyism was an over-correction of an actual widespread problem of Communist infiltration and undermining of American society. It wasn't; it was- some notable exceptions aside- totally baseless and political powerplay.

But sexual misconduct is real, it is widespread, and has been for decades, and those who have been victims of it have been failed, whether by design or flaw, by our systems.

[leefowler]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 12:59pm

The most shocking thing about this to me is that Israel Horovitz has a son in the Beastie Boys.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 1:07pm

OlBlueEyes said: "It's really not a good idea to allow this to continue - the destruction of men's lives on the basis of unproven allegations...

Across the country this explosion of sexual harassment accusations is not playing out in the same way as it is in New York. Folks see a casting director denounced by women who sought and auditioned for important roles and were rejected. Might that not furnish a motive for striking back with a false or inflated accusation? Even if that man was a disgusting creep, disgusting creeps are still entitled to equal protection under the law."

This reads like a defense from Mr. Horovitz.

What about the lives of the women and men who were forever altered by the sexual predators? Sorry this is going on longer than you like, but the floodgates were opened by Ashley Judd, which was very very brave of her and women are stepping through them. Not all the incidents reported rise to the same level of predation. But one thing is for sure, like the beginning of  the film Un Chien Andalou, as a society, our eyes have been sharply opened and unfortunately there is more to see than we would like.

As for the "women" who have made claims against a casting director after auditioning and being rejected for roles - who are you talking about? That wasn't the case with Horovitz or Huff.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 12/1/17 at 5:15pm

Soozie said: "In réponse to OlBlueEyes......these sexual harassment and/or assault allegations lately in the press are not legal accusations tried in a court of law. Simply, these are employees who have violated the codes of their employment. It is not about the law where you are innocent until proven guilty. Rather, their employers have gathered enough evidence to ascertain that the employee has violated their standards/policies for employment and have terminated their contracts."

Thank you, Soozie. I thought I had covered that when I wrote 

For the most part, the Bill of Rights does not apply to private entities such as corporations, but why would strong supporters of this document not be guided by its principles when placed in the position of a criminal court? 

Kad, don't completely disagree, but I'm focusing on the innocent being falsely accused and condemned. This happened during McCarthyism and will happen during this sexual harassment purge. If you don't think that any innocent men will be affected, then apparently you believe that all the women are telling the truth, which is why the accused must be allowed to confront them.

So you say that if we apply those constitutional standards here then some guilty of the crime will not be punished. Probably true. But the left fought in the courts for a long, long time to protect accused criminals from police abuse in many areas. The rules governing collection of evidence must be followed, otherwise the evidence, even if it completely proves the case against the defendant, cannot be used in court. Confessions that are obtained from the accused without following every rule governing permissible interrogations are not admissible in court.

It took our society many years to accept the fact that several clearly guilty criminal defendants would go free in order to protect one innocent man or woman from being convicted.

I'm not of the theater world, so I can't really feel all that you are feeling. I'll butt out, but I thought that these points should be made.

 

[sinister teashop]

Posted: 12/2/17 at 2:27pm

The sexual harassment call-out explosion isn't McCarthyism but it is politicized. So far, it's largely effecting liberals in the media. It is possible for the accusations to be real, deserved, long overdue and at the same time being made use of by forces with great control over digital information. Our own need for justice can be weaponized against us by the powerful. There's nothing new in that but the way justice is being played out via a social media we think we have control over but really don't is new territory.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 12/2/17 at 5:26pm

The parallel to McCarthyism and the Salem witches resides in the public denunciation of men and women for being witches, Communists or sexual harassers, and the accused are not given any way to defend themselves from their loss of jobs, careers, reputation and, in the case of Salem, their lives. Even Nazi war criminals had their day to stand up before the military tribunals, accompanied by counsel, and try to talk their way out of the noose. A few even succeeded. Albert Speer.

I'm a little surprised that so many progressive people in the world of the theater don't have a problem with people who are being publicly denounced not having any opportunity to defend themselves. But these are turbulent and for many people very emotional times.

One way to silence critics is to just declare that a few innocent people must suffer for the long-term welfare of everyone. I don't think that I like that argument, but it is consistent with what is happening.