What is it with runtimes?

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 3:31pm

I feel like, more and more recently,* I've been seeing shows where the announced runtime is notably shorter than the actual runtime. I can understand a 5 minutes difference, maybe even 10 - they do say "approximate" after all. But recently I've seen shows that run 15, 20, 25, and sometimes even a full half hour longer than the runtime that is both listed on the website, and told to us by the the house staff. Sure, if it's in early previews, I get it. But these are shows that have been running for weeks or months. And many of them don't even have intermissions that could run long and contribute to the problem. What gives? Is it so hard to update these things? Is it so hard to say "2 hours" rather than "90 minutes" when the latter is simply incorrect? Is it a marketing ploy to avoid alienating people who can't sit through long shows?

(Sorry for the rant - I realize this is a total "first world problem," but so are all the things we complain about on here, and this one actually has had negative consequences for me). 

 

*It's likely that this isn't a new problem, and that I've just become more aware of it since I my schedule got busier, and I had to be more aware of runtimes, to catch trains and the like. 

Updated On: 10/16/17 at 03:31 PM

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 3:51pm

Maybe you could cite some examples?

[JayElle]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 3:58pm

Springsteen doesn’t even post it’s run time in Ticketmaster online or if u call them. Not in Playbill either. I had to ask the box office.   Two hours; no intermission.  Considering the body scanners, pat down, and police presence perhaps that’s why they don’t.  Most shows I’ve been to have been plus/minus ten minutes or so, but not 30 mins.  

[Vespertine1228]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 4:04pm

I used to work at a major non-profit theater in NYC. I can give you a few reasons the running time is often longer than posted:

1. The main one is that people complain when it’s anything above 90 minutes and there’s no intermission. Endless, endless complaining. It’s insufferable. And for some reason people can’t seem to comprehend 100 or 110 minutes. We did a show that was 100 minutes no intermission and I was asked at least three times every performance “How long is that?” I know this might sound crazy, but I saw it happen time and again.

2. Top of show or intermission take too long, especially at matinees where more of the audience is elderly and may have mobility issues. 

3. It’s live theatre. Some shows tend to run the exact same amount of time no matter what. Some are never the same night to night by as much as ten minutes in my experience. 

[little_sally]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 4:13pm

I've noticed this too lately. The usher at As You Like It at CSC said it was 1:35 and it was close to 1:50.

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 4:24pm

It still astounds me people treat 90 minutes as if that's an insane amount of time to not be able to go to the bathroom, but will go see three hour super hero movies no problem. Now, yes, it's easier to get up and leave in a movie theatre, but I still don't see dozens sneaking out and back in at a 90 minute mark. 

I fully believe patrons would loose their mind at 135 but not 130. I've seen patrons loose it when they're told the restroom is down two stairs and say "I've been a member for 30 years and I've never had to walk down!" and I know full well that step has always been there. People seem to always say kids today feel entitled, but I've noticed more of that (and cell phone use during shows) coming from the senior crowd.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 4:44pm

@nasty_kakhis - you're preaching to the choir here. I have been very vocal on this board in the past about my contempt for elderly audience members, for the exact reasons you mentioned, and more. Somehow I'm not surprised that this, my most recent irritation with theatres, comes back to the blue hairs. 

 

@Uncle Charlie - these are just a few recent examples. I don't feel like naming all of them. 

 

--Hamlet (Public) - in its final week

Listed: 3.5 hours

Ran: a few minutes under 4 hours

 

--The Terms of My Surrender

Announced: 1h 50m (though I see they've thankfully now updated it accordingly) 

Ran: 2h 10m, with no special guest. 

 

--Desperate Measures - several weeks into the run

Announced: 2 hours

Actual: 2h 20m

 

--The Last Match

Announced: 90 minutes

Actual: 105

 

--The Toad Knew (BAM)

Announced: 90 minutes

Actual: 2 hours 

Admittedly only a week long run, but it was the final show of the week, and the production has played in a number of venues before this one. Plus, 30 minutes is a huge difference. 

 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 4:51pm

Are you accounting for late start times and curtain calls? For me, Broadway shows at least tend to stick very close to their stated runtimes, especially if they've been going for a few months or more.

Also on the subject of movies... http://www.businessinsider.com/are-movies-getting-longer-2016-6

[After Eight]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 4:57pm

For two different plays this season, I was told the play would run two hours including intermission. What the usher should have said was two hours plus intermission, since in both cases, the plays ran 2 1/2 hours.  I guess the best way to phrase the question is, "At what time will the performance end?," but one can't always count on accuracy there either.

 

I have encountered the same phenomenon as the OP more times than I care to count. It's annoying, especially if you are counting the minutes for a bad show to end, only to find it continuing on and on and on. A good rule of thumb is to automatically add ten to fifteen  minutes to the announced running time.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 5:14pm

VintageSnarker said: "Are you accounting for late start times and curtain calls? For me, Broadway shows at least tend to stick very close to their stated runtimes, especially if they've been going for a few months or more."

I have noticed it's less of a problem on Broadway. Probably as a result of the longer runs, as you said, but even if a show Off-Broadway has only been running a week or so, you'd like think they wouldn't be off by a full 15 minutes. 

As for late start times and curtain calls: in my experience, most Broadway shows include the obligatory 5 minute delay and the curtain call in their stated runtime, and as you observed, they tend to be more accurate. So I'm assuming that the inclusion of those added factors is the standard.

 

[Theater3232]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 5:20pm

The Broadway ushers truthfully answer the question and usually respond "You'll be out at 9:30pm".  That's what the audience is asking.  They want to catch a train, meet someone for dinner, etc.  They don't want to be fed a lie.

Off-Broadway and Off-off-Broadway usually deliberately lie to make the performance sound shorter.  How hard is it for them to train their ushers to say "You'll be out at 9:30pm"?

[Andy51]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 6:08pm

Theater3232 said: "The Broadway ushers truthfully answer the question and usually respond "You'll be out at 9:30pm". That's what the audience is asking. They want to catch a train, meet someone for dinner, etc. They don't want to be fed a lie.

Off-Broadway and Off-off-Broadway usually deliberately lie to make the performance sound shorter. How hard is it for them to train their ushers to say "You'll be out at 9:30pm"?"

A number of Off-Broadway and Off-off-Broadway ushers work a show just one night so that they can see the show as compensation.  So, they often not a reliable source of information.  For those shows, I ask a manager or someone in the box office.

 

[Itonlytakesajourney]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 6:11pm

The first time I went to see Dolly, the show really started at like 8:15. I didn't have a huge problem with it (I was just excited for the show to start!), but it can be troublesome for people who need to go somewhere afterwards or have other obligations. 

[Boq101]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 6:35pm

as an usher:

sometimes the time she shows write online and so on is wrong, and we do what we can to give you an accurate time you'll be out by.

no one has ever in my three years of working off-broadway asked me to lie about a run time. 

The 90 minute trap is real. I once worked a first preview of a play that said it was 90 minutes and evened 72 minutes in. I've never run to open doors so fast in my life. 

 

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 6:47pm

JBroadway said: As for late start times and curtain calls:in my experience, most Broadway shows include the obligatory 5 minute delay and the curtain call in their stated runtime, and as you observed, they tend to be more accurate. So I'm assuming that the inclusion of those added factors is the standard.

I've always interpreted running time as the actual play length once it starts. If a 2 1/2 hour show starts at 8:10, I expect it to end at 8:40. Perhaps that's part of why your times are so far off.

 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 6:59pm

But as I said, most Broadway shows DO include the 5 minute late start time and the curtain call in their runtime. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 10/16/17 at 11:17pm

The one I loved was A Doll's House Part 2.  They said it was 90 minutes.  In fact it was 77 minutes when I saw it.  When I saw Bandstand, it was just starting its intermission as ADH2 broke.

I still think ADHP2 was more of an outline of a play than a real play.  The ideas were clear, worthy of dramatization, but everything seemed like shorthand and very 'linear', i.e., now she talks with the maid, then she talks with Torvald, then the maid, then the daughter, then Torvald, then it is over.  I did NOT feel satisfied, although I know it got excellent reviews and had passionate devotees on this board.  Didn't help that I had seen The Little Foxes the evening before...an excellent, complex play with complex characters, in a great production.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 10/17/17 at 1:03pm

JayElle said: "Springsteen doesn’t even post it’s run time in Ticketmaster online or if u call them. Not in Playbill either. I had to ask the box office. Two hours; no intermission. Considering the body scanners, pat down, and police presence perhaps that’s why they don’t. Most shows I’ve been to have been plus/minus ten minutes or so, but not 30 mins."

I don't know about this engagement, but Springsteen is famous for making up his playlist anew for each performance in the half-hour before he goes on. Maybe they don't give out a run-time because they can't know it.

Updated On: 10/17/17 at 01:03 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 10/17/17 at 1:12pm

Jarethan said: "The one I loved was A Doll's House Part 2. They said it was 90 minutes. In fact it was 77 minutes when I saw it. When I saw Bandstand, it was just starting its intermissionas ADH2 broke.

I still think ADHP2 was more of an outline of a playthan a real play. The ideas were clear, worthy of dramatization, but everything seemed like shorthand and very 'linear', i.e., now she talks with the maid, then she talks with Torvald, then the maid, then the daughter, then Torvald, then it is over. I did NOT feel satisfied, although I know it got excellent reviews and had passionate devotees on this board. Didn't help that I had seen The Little Foxes the evening before...an excellent, complexplay with complex characters, in a great production."

I enjoyed ADHP2, but I had to choose between that and The Little Foxes and I wish I had chosen the latter.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 10/17/17 at 1:14pm

I spent many years working front-of-house. A lot of what's been said in this thread is true. A few things:

Run times fluctuate, especially during previews. I've seen a show go from nearly three hours to barely two inside of one week. If you're seeing a show in previews and need to know a running time, the best thing you can do is ask an usher or house manager day-of. They will be able to provide the most current running time, and it will probably be more accurate than whatever's online.

The running time is the run of the show. It's not a stopwatch that starts exactly at 8:00. So if a show is 90 minutes but it doesn't start till 8:15, the show won't end until 9:45. And so on and so forth.

As Vespertine said, certain performances can tend to run long. Matinees almost always do, due to the influx of older patrons. They have mobility issues. They may take longer in the bathroom. So a 15-minute intermission can stretch to 20 or 25. And the show may start later because of the added time needed to seat older patrons who don't move as fast as younger folks. 

As far as the "90 minute trap" goes, I have only ever seen that regularly used to inflate running times on shorter shows. One of the most recent shows I worked on was barely 70 minutes, but the website listed it as 95. But as Boq101 said, I've never been instructed to lie to a patron about a running time.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/17/17 at 2:05pm

Some of those runtime examples appear- just based on the listed time vs. the actual time- to not take intermissions into account.

I also suspect some runtimes are recorded in a final dress, with no accounting for added time for audience.

Updated On: 10/17/17 at 02:05 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 10/17/17 at 3:01pm

--Desperate Measures - several weeks into the run

Announced: 2 hours

Actual: 2h 20m

Did you get a speech before the show started too? The runtime was the same for me. I think it must be the speech or them not counting intermission in the runtime.

--The Last Match

Announced: 90 minutes

Actual: 105

It was 109 minutes for me. Or it was after curtain call when I got my phone turned on. I think it started late and I saw it a while ago (is it still previews?) so maybe the actors were still figuring out the pacing. Though you would think they would announce the current running time... not the ideal running time.