The Thread for HAMILTON Fans/Obsessives [SPOILERS AHEAD]

[BroadwayConcierge]

With opening night well behind us and the cast album soon on its way, I find myself more and more needing to discuss favorite moments/songs, ask and answer questions, et cetera, with fellow Hamilton obsessives. Apologies if there's already a thread along these lines!

 

For starters, I can't get "Burn" out of my head and it's breaking my heart each and every time. Help.

[Hamilton22]

I think people are using the Hamilton review thread for discussion about the show.

 

Anyhow...

 

I liked the show very much. I've seen it 4 times and while I think it's a great new musical, I never for once thought it was groundbreaking or a game changer. At least not artistically.

Fun show though. Hope it does well come Tony time. 

[gypsy101]

Hamilton22 said: "I think people are using the Hamilton review thread for discussion about the show. Anyhow... I liked the show very much. I've seen it 4 times and while I think it's a great new musical, I never for once thought it was groundbreaking or a game changer. At least not artistically. Fun show though. Hope it does well come Tony time. "

 

You don't think it's a game-changer? what a strange thing for someone named "Hamilton22" to say.

[Hamilton22]

My name doesn't mean much. I couldn't think of a profile name and Hamilton was the first thing that popped in my head so I chose that. Not strange at all really

 

And no I don't think it's a game changer, artistically speaking. It's a very good and infectious show, but it did not (in my opinion) present anything that we haven't already seen before. In fact, I found it to be very similar to shows like Les Mis. 

 

As I've said before, if there's one recent show that I do think presented new ideas of what Musical theater can be and can do, it's Fun Home.

 

Hamilton, not so much.

[ultraviolet99]

Are you serious?! Fun Home content wise, can be considered groundbreaking. But musically, it's nothing new. It's contemporary musical theatre. Hamilton, however, seamlessly blends hip-hop and classical musical theatre. I have never seen anything like it. 

[oncemorewithfeeling2]

What I've realized about Hamilton is that so many of the songs would be believable as music released by major artists today. From the start, I knew the music was modern, but it's just starting to click how similar it is to current pop music.  Wait for It sounds like a pop song that could be sung by anyone, The Schuyler Sisters sounds like a Destiny's Child song (or any late '90s/early 2000s girl group song), Satisfied has very Beyoncé-esque lyrics, and any rap done by Lafayette feels like a Busta Rhymes song (I think I remember reading that LMM saw Lafayette as being a Busta-like character).

 

[JBroadway]

As I've said many times before, I LOVE Hamilton a lot. I think it's absolutely brilliant. 

 

Having said that, I do kind of agree with Hamilton22. I've never QUITE understood why everyone thinks it's so revolutionary and game-changing. What direct influences on future musical theatre are people anticipating?

 

Also, despite Hamilton being much more ambitious than In The Heights, I think I prefer In The Heights by a relatively small margin. 

[brdway411]

In the Heights is a retelling of Westside Story or Romeo and Juliet in modern day story fashion. Hamilton is nothing more than an almost 3 hour Schoolhouse Rocks version of what happened with Hamilton and Burr. nothing ground breaking or brilliant there. 

[dramamama611]

All new musicals will now be historic and/or be played with an alternative or hip-hop score.

 

I love Hamilton, thought it was one of the best things I've witnessed, can't wait to go back, can't wait for the recording. But I agree that that it isn't changing the future of bway shows. 

[haterobics]

brdway411 said: "In the Heights is a retelling of Westside Story or Romeo and Juliet in modern day story fashion."

 

Say what now?!

 

"Hamilton is nothing more than an almost 3 hour Schoolhouse Rocks version of what happened with Hamilton and Burr. nothing ground breaking or brilliant there."

 

How did you manage to pick the one element that Lin didn't invent (what actually happened), and turn that into the whole of why it isn't that great?! Not that I would even agree with your assessment, since I don't recall ever thinking Schoolhouse Rock was bringing history to vivid life, and retelling an old story in a way that made it seem completely present, modern, and engaging.

 

Just the notion of an 832 page biography of a Founding Father being the source material for the hottest show on Broadway, commanding $352/seat for nearly a third of the orchestra, hundreds of people lining up for lotteries just to get in... that is crazy enough. And then once people get over all those hurdles to get in, they can't wait to go back again!

 

I guess it is easy to be dismissive and reductive in hindsight, but just the notion that it does exist seems to be sort of miraculous.

 

That said, I don't think it can change the future of Broadway since it is a very singular experience. Only Lin would read a bio of Hamilton, see him as the same light as a the gangster rap artists he grew up on, which then refits all of history into rap battles and all of these other new forms onto old archetypes. With dozens (hundreds?) of nods to the history of rap and the history of musical theatre thrown in, as well. Not to mention casting a bunch of slave owners with people of color, which sort of makes it alive and new in a different way.

 

If most people tried to do a third of that, they would likely fail and it would be an awkward mess. Lin somehow did it all, and flawlessly. All while being one of the most grounded, humble, self-effacing people I ever met... and while being one of the biggest champions of Broadway out there, turning the lottery to his own show into a celebration of the form of musical theater itself, with guests turning up to put spins on songs from Les Miz, Spring Awakening, and others, just to thank people for supporting his show.

[Hamilton22]

haterobics, you seem to be misinterpreting some things here.

None of us have said the show isn't great. Most are just saying  it's not this revolutionary or game changing show that's it's being hyped up to be.

Nothing wrong with that. 

[haterobics]

"Hamilton is nothing more than an almost 3 hour Schoolhouse Rocks version of what happened with Hamilton and Burr" doesn't read to me like the show is great. heh.

[Hamilton22]

3 hour Schoolhouse Rocks version of what happened with Hamilton and Burr"?

 

That's actually a very funny and not completely wrong statement. Haha.

 

We'll have to wait and see if that poster wants elaborate on that statement. But does it really matter if someone didn't think Hamilton was great? 

 

[haterobics]

Hamilton22 said: "But does it really matter if someone didn't think Hamilton was great? "

 

No, lots of people have silly opinions on here.

[macnyc]

I can't wait for the cast album to be released, and I'm so happy the recording seems to have gone without a hitch. I think I could listen to Yorktown all day. I love when Hercules Mulligan (played by the Mighty Oak, yeah!) bursts from the back of the stage to do his bit (paraphrasing), "That's what happens when you go up against the working man/We're in the s**thouse,  somebody's got to shovel it." Then, the actual battle is so exciting. The music, the lighting the sound, the choreography all comes together brilliantly.

By the way, what happened to the nine or ten minute b-roll that had been posted? It had parts of Helpless, Yorktown, and What'd I Miss? I couldn't find it on YouTube, and I know the production had a change of heart and asked BWW to post the shorter version instead. I'm thinking it has been removed. I need my fix!

[HogansHero]

Wanna know what's groundbreaking? 

The degree of myopia some exhibit in this thread. As I have said elsewhere, talking about what is groundbreaking or game-changing in the relative present tense is just ignorant. By definition, those terms require looking back from some remove. And as I have said, those terms are poorly chosen when applied to art because art evolves, rather than falls off a cliff. But to focus on elements rather than the whole of Hamilton is to miss the forest for the trees.

If Hamilton proves to be game-changing, it will not be because of the minutiae of its elements. Rather it will be because of its overall intelligence and particularly the integration of that intelligence across every department. Wouldn't it be nice if the biggest effect of Hamilton is what it says to those creating musicals now and in the future? Do better, work harder, make something meaningful rather than just something designed to make money. Because if you do you will succeed.

It bothers me that people feel they have to pit Hamilton against Fun Home. Why not celebrate that we have two intelligent new pieces of musical theatre running simultaneously? When was the last time we could say that?

[haterobics]

FInally some sense in here, heh.

 

Hamilton22 said: "Most are just saying  it's not this revolutionary or game changing show that's it's being hyped up to be."

 

Yes, what the world needs is more people with pins hunting down people with balloons...

[Hamilton22]

HogansHero, you've been pitting Hamilton against WSS, Gypsy and many other musicals since the day I got here. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? 

 

To my knowledge I haven't pitted Hamilton against Fun Home. Saying one show has more developed themes and content that isn't very widely seen in Musical theatre, isn't a diss to  Hamilton. They are both great shows and comparisons will always be made between shows like these.

 

As I said earlier, Hamilton is a good show that speaks for itself. It doesn't need you coming to defend it at every second.

Some people don't think Hamilton is game changing. Some don't even think it's good. Who cares.

[Kad]

I think saying the show is the equivalent to a 3-hour version of a children's educational program is... reductive. And I don't understand the comparisons to Fun Home. Talk about apples and oranges! They can both exist and both be important and wonderful in different ways.

I can't say if the show will be influential. But I know that when I saw it, I saw techniques and approaches to the medium that I had not seen utilized on such a scale. I saw a show that resisted the increasingly creaky, workhorse BMI model of musical theatre. I saw a highly literate show that had an eye on larger ideas. I saw a show that utilized diversity in a way I had not seen on this scale previously. Most importantly, I saw a show that set the bar very high for all new musicals in the foreseeable future.

Is it perfect? No! Nothing is. Is it groundbreaking? Possibly. Who can judge? I think groundbreaking varies from person to person. But I think theatre artists, people who create theatre, will leave with new ideas of how to do what they do. I know I did. Sometimes being groundbreaking is as simple as taking a drawing of a square, adding a few more lines, and turning it into a drawing of a cube. Hamilton did that for me. Other shows have, too- even if they would not be labeled "groundbreaking" by the establishment.

[haterobics]

Hamilton22 said: "Some people don't think Hamilton is game changing. Some don't even think it's great. Nothing wrong with that. "

 

At the very least, wouldn't those people be in the wrong thread?!

[Hamilton22]

Haha yes they would, haterobics.

 

Can I still be in the the thread though? I'll be a good Hamilton Fanboy, I promise

[brdway411]

I don't think Hamilton is great, I think it is good. I stick with my 3 hour Shcoolhouse Rock statement. 

 

And as far as In the Heights. I am sorry I misquoted Forbidden Broadway. It's WSS Light. 

[Kad]

How is it similar to WSS in anything aside from a superficial way designed for a throwaway joke?

And you can stand by your Schoolhouse Rock statement. It's still massively reductive.

[brdway411]

Father doesnt like boyfriend, Check

Someone dies, check

Friends help get the couple together, check. 

it's a slightly different story but there is some WSS in there. 

 

[ClydeBarrow]

brdway411, have you even seen HAMILTON? I feel like most people who hurl such vitriol for the show are those who are just jealous about being left out of the party.