HBO's "The Normal Heart": Your Thoughts- Page 8

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 4:23pm

That "article" is horrible. Even on a basic factual level--how does she know that not one of the critics on Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic is "queer?" And after complaining about the fact that the film got ridiculous levels of "universal" acclaim on those sites (and there are, if you look at said sites, a couple--albeit not many--disagreeing opinions,) she then writes "But we’re not here to add yet another failing grade to the film's representational report card." Which makes no sense--I thought ALL of the reviews were nothing but praise? I also don't remember the orgy near the start showing the revelers "literally covered in mud" whatsoever, or Ned recoiling from them...

I sorta skimmed the article from that point on. The problem is, that she doesn't seem to be willing to accept that this is (mostly) one person's account and story. The same way people some objected to, to pick just one example, Looking (in a much less serious way) because somehow they saw it as saying that *this* is how gay men are meant to be, except of course this is based in reality and semi-autobiographical so should be all the more considered that way and not as something that is meant to be about showing as diverse a group and group of reactions as possible. Sure, maybe I think she has some points I agree with about Kramer's focus on the actual gay sex angle too much, but anyone who knows anything about him knows that's exactly how he saw and experienced it.

"To all the folks at HBO, I say this: if your goal was to make straight people comfortable in their bigotry, to lay virtually the entire burden of blame for HIV/AIDS on the shoulders of gay men, and to systematically exclude the epidemic’s most vulnerable victims, you couldn’t possibly have done a better job.

Congratulations."

Well, I don't have any suspicion that that was the goal of anyone, including Kramer, while making the movie, so I guess HBO is safe. Phew.

Updated On: 5/30/14 at 04:23 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 5:01pm

Sure, maybe I think she has some points I agree with about Kramer's focus on the actual gay sex angle too much, but anyone who knows anything about him knows that's exactly how he saw and experienced it.

Plus numerous characters challenge Ned's assertion over and over. And it's shown that he's hated by a lot of the gay community for what he says. It's not like he says it and everyone agrees with him.

Also, I wanted to comment on the feminist angle: I'm a woman and a huge feminist, but this isn't our story. It's Larry Kramer's and he's allowed to write about it as it happened--with characters based on the people he knew, who were mostly men. There are stories about HIV/AIDS as experienced by women and lesbians, but that isn't Kramer's own experience.

Updated On: 5/30/14 at 05:01 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 6:36pm

"I think with the dance scene, Julia Roberts character really wanted to experience DANCING with a Man."

Sorry to repeat myself, but the scene is NOT about dancing. Dancing is not an issue in the film and nobody is saying anyone has to stop dancing.

The scene is about the deeply human need to touch and be touched by others. (Something actually true of all primates.) Emma has never called for gay men to stop dancing, so a "dance interlude" per se would be irrelevant.

But losing herself in the embrace of another human being (and her deep need to do so) is a side of Emma we have never seen--and a visible rebuttal to some of what she has been saying to that point in the film.

***

One might see a continuation of this issue in Ned's comment later that he doesn't take all the recommended precautions when caring for Felix. Partly, of course, wearing gloves and the like are inconvenient, but doing so also erects a barrier between you and the loved one. (This I know from personal experience.)

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 9:34pm

This interview with Taylor Kitsch from Michelangelo Signorile provides some nice background to what it was like for him to film the confrontation scenes with Mark Ruffalo.






Taylor Kitsch And Mark Ruffalo Cried And Argued On The Set Of 'The Normal Heart'

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 9:52pm

This is the article Emcee was referring to, where she uses modern day infection rates to prove that women are being purposefully excluded by Hollywood and white men in The Normal Heart.

I'm a woman. I'm pretty sensitive to the actual exclusion (willful or ignorant) of female characters in movies, TV, theatre and literature. That said, AIDS in 1981 is not our story. Forcing tokenism and minority ratios for the sake of modern day PC inclusion into a real life story is more offensive to me than 2 female characters who are never in a scene together.
The Normal Heart and the Erasing of Women

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 11:03pm

Nearly all of the examples she brings up--not just Normal Heart--are historical dramas even if, in the case of Dallas Buyers Club the facts its based on seem even more fictionalized than in Heart, or documentaries--all specifically about a certain place and moment in the epidemic. I don't understand why she doesn't seem able to wrap her head around that. Of course it's very important to acknowledge the wide reach of AIDS and there are important stories deserving to be told about how the disease has affected many groups and people. But, as others have said on here, that was not the goal or purpose of this movie.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 5/30/14 at 11:28pm

Just bought and watched "We Were Here". Even in this documentary it says HIV wasn't considered transferable through Lesbian sex.
Oh i understand the anger of those hetrosexual women who found themselves infected by their lovers who were on the "Down Low".
Have too many "heterosexual" Evangelical Christian friends who are struggling with this.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 5/31/14 at 5:23am

Finally had time to watch the film. Knocked me out. I'm not an easy crier. I honestly think the last time I genuinely cried at a film was at the end of Gremlins. What more can be said. I agree with most of the positive comments in this thread. I'm shocked at the relative restraint and, even, elegance Ryan Murphy displayed. It's hard to believe this is the same man who brought us Glee and American Horror Story. I couldn't breathe during Joe Mantello's breakdown and Taylor Kitsch's scene with the mother of his just departed lover? That wrecked me. I just sat in silence for about 10 mins after the credits ran and then I came here and read this entire thread.

Beyond the lingering weight of sadness, I'm left with a deep sense of gratitude for those who waged this war in the 80s and 90s against such terrible odds and personal devastation. I'm in awe of their courage and their determination. PJ, Namo, Snafu and others - thank you so much for sharing your memories in this thread as well.

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 5/31/14 at 9:13pm

JULIA ROBERTS IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!...as is the whole cast...and as someone who lived in NYC from 1982-86 and escorted during those horrible first few years of the plague, I thought the movie gave those who were not so up close and personal with those times a chance to get a feeling for what life was like for those of us who were there...WELL DONE!



Updated On: 5/31/14 at 09:13 PM

[SNAFU]

Posted: 5/31/14 at 9:17pm

meh, Julia Roberts was Julia Roberts.

[GlindatheGood22]

Posted: 5/31/14 at 10:31pm

Enjoyed it, to the extent that a film like this can be "enjoyed." I should have known that the airplane story was going to be played out rather than just told, but I think it had more power on the stage. Also disappointed that Emma's monologue got cut down, but all that was as inevitable as the role of Tommy being expanded.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/31/14 at 11:48pm

Hug me from behind, Mickey S.! I'm kidding, mostly. Sort of. Not really.

Lee Pace played Bruce in the revival and it was my first time seeing him in anything, ever. He really was remarkable too. Mickey Marcus's scene in the play, extended in the film, was essentially a version of my 198384. I don't miss those days.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 8:40am

In celebration of the dead and the living--and those who have just watched the movie--here is some footage from the Labor Day 1991 protest at the Summer White House of President George H.W. Bush in Kennebunkport, Maine.

If you look, you can catch a glimpse of Finding Namo, PalJoey and Reginald Tresilian (although Reggie and I didn't know Namo at the time).

Visible more prominently are ACT UP luminaries like Peter Staley, Spencer Cox, Mark Harrington, Ann Northrup, Michelangelo Signorile, Garance Franke-Ruta. I don't believe Larry Kramer was there, but I think Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Cunningham was there (seven years before his Pulitzer for The Hours).

We rallied in the town, chanting "History will recall / Reagan and Bush / Did NOTHING AT ALL!" As you can see from some of the placards, there were already 114,000 people dead.

There were busloads of protesters from Maine and Massachusetts, New York, Philadelphia and DC, as well as from Montreal and Toronto. When the police would let us get no closer to the Bush Compound, we all dropped down to the road and did a die-in on the spot.




(On a happy note, two friends of mine met and fell in love on the bus up to Kennebunkport, and they are still together, twenty-three years later.)



ACT UP Kennebunkport 1991

[BobNC]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 10:21am

Your comments about St Vincent's reminded me of what an important role that institution played during the 80s/90s in helping our community. One of my best friends was the recipient of theirs (and Friends in Deed) charity during his last months. Thankfully, Friends ind Deed is still around.

[BobNC]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 10:27am

It's been a whole week and I guess I'm still too raw/numb to engage in discussion about the end result. I can state unequivocally that I am glad the film got made. The most powerful scene to me was the character crying about missing his dog. Regardless of the medium, it's the small details and moments which always have the greatest impact on me.

[gabbym]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 1:28pm

I'm glad to see that so many others agreed with me about the film version of "The Normal Heart", although well done, this is a piece that works much better on the stage. I thought Mark Ruffalo and Matt Bomer were good, but nowhere near to Joe Mantello and John Benjamin Hickey in the revival. A little too "Hollywood" perfect.
Jim Parsons and Joe Mantello nailed their roles and as far as Julia Roberts is concerned, I never cared for her as an actress and didn't much like her here either. Ellen Barkin was chilling and riveting. Important as a piece of gay history and a powerful stage piece. As a film just so-so.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 2:02pm

The most powerful scene to me was the character crying about missing his dog.

That actor was Stephen Spinella, from the original cast of Angels in America.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 2:43pm

Which means we had the original Prior and the original Louis (Spinella and Mantello), two out gay actors who came to represent the gay Everymen of our generation, to my way of thinking.

The further I sit with my response to my Normal Heart viewings this week, the more irrelevant the quibbles seem to me.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 2:48pm

Irrelevant Quibbles.

That should be the title of someone's memoir.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 4:46pm

Or my new band.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 5:28pm

I hope it's not inappropriate to think of the plague years in the gay male community akin in some way to the Holocaust in the Jewish community. Out of the horrors of the 3rd Riech was born the State of Israel. Perhaps history will look back and conclude that the horrors of the plague years played a key role in opening up rights to gay Americans in the military and on the marriage front that we would otherwise never have seen in our lifetimes.

No, they are not equal catastrophes. And clearly the horrors of AIDS continue in the minority communities in America and throughout the third world without an end in sight. But perhaps in a tangible way our victories in America in the last decade can be traced to those heroes who gave so much on the front lines of AIDS 30 years ago.

[BobNC]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 5:52pm

Thanks. I thought he looked familiar. His was my favorite performance. I also liked Jim Parsons.

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 5:56pm

FindingNamo...(blushing)..in my stage voice...:)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 6:00pm

Namo said:
"The further I sit with my response to my Normal Heart viewings this week, the more irrelevant the quibbles seem to me. "

Completely agreed.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/1/14 at 6:04pm

I think AIDS and the Holocaust are two things it serves no benefit to look at comparatively. Or held up against any other tragedy. And as the late writer Paul Reed said at the time, There are no silver linings."

I'd also like to point out that there was no meeting, no anything, to decide that Gays in the Military was a priority issue, let alone the top priority issue when the odious HRC and Robin Tyler decided that was to be the primary focus of the '92 March on Washington. They just knew their stupid dog tags would sell like hit cakes.

Updated On: 6/1/14 at 06:04 PM