Anyone catch Six by Sondheim on HBO?- Page 5

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 7:10am

Total L-seven.

Namo, your "drive-by fruitings" are getting less and less witty. It's really rather sad.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 11:01am

I'm a week behind, but I loved the actual documentary portion of the film, and all the archival footage. The music video-type original performances were baffling and distracting. For all of the emphasis the film puts on Sondheim's ideas of simplicity, etc., the performances were dizzying and over-directed and distracted entirely from the songs themselves.

Audra was particularly shortchanged by her segment, with all its fades to black and editing and over-production.

[darquegk]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 11:09am

As part of my Master's dissertation, I worked with collectors all over the internet to try and assemble a Complete Compendium of the works of Sondheim- every score, script and deleted song that he has contributed to, and developmental materials thereof. I've heard almost every recorded demo and backer's audition that Sondheim sang and performed at. At first, I hated it, but it rapidly grew on me. I genuinely enjoy hearing his interpretations of his material. And hearing him sing all of Sweeney Todd by himself is really entertaining!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 11:38am

For all of the emphasis the film puts on Sondheim's ideas of simplicity, etc., the performances were dizzying and over-directed and distracted entirely from the songs themselves.

As Steve Sondheim would say, "Trust the material. Just trust the material."

[jv92]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 11:46am

darquegk- I think he sings very nicely on that SWEENEY TODD backer's audition recording, too. There's a lot of charm in hearing him sing, because I think he knows he's a lousy singer but at the same time has the attitude of "Oh, what the hell? It's not like I'm doing this on a Broadway stage." As opposed to Leonard Bernstein, who had an even WORSE voice than Sondheim, but because of his bad case of of "important-itis" (or ego-- whatever you want to call it), when he tried to sing anything, whether it was a few lines of TRISTAN UND ISOLDE or "Help!" by The Beatles, it was TRULY painful and embarrassing.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 12:17pm

He was so bad the only possible explanation is he was Jarvis Cocker!!!

How could somebody listen to him talk for the better part of 90 minutes and hear him sing in the last video and not know who was singing "Broadway Baby"? And that's a rhetorical question not directed at any single smarty pants in particular.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 12:43pm

Is Jarvis Cocker the son of Joe Cocker?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 12:45pm

No. People always said he was and he didn't deny it. Turns out, he is Betty's great-grandson.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 1:43pm

Nope. Son of English actor and radio broadcaster Mac Cocker.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 2:05pm

Then he has no excuse.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 4:02pm

Cocker's performance was truly terrible. And the ham-fisted decision to repeatedly cut to shots of older women looking rueful didn't help.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 4:19pm

Actually, I thought those shots of the older women would have been very touching if the singer had been an actual older woman who was connected to the material, instead of the untalented creepster who was completely unmusical and obviously didn't understand a single one of the lyrics, including "ladies" or "lunch."

For instance, pictures those ladies with this lady:

http://youtu.be/VI80Ivwt0V8

[jv92]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 7:09pm

I was actually surprised that Sondheim allowed Cocker to take A LOT of liberties (however minor) with that masterpiece of a lyric (and the melody, too for that matter). But I've heard rumors he still occasionally smokes pot, so perhaps Lapine brought a dimebag AS WELL AS a print of that segment over to the house one night. I still hold firm in my positive response to that segment. It worked for me.

And Joey, NO ONE (including Yvonne De Carlo, forgive me) has ever performed "I'm Still Here" as well as Julie Wilson. A friend of mine saw her looking frail but alert one night at 54 Below during Marilyn Maye's last engagement. She sings Sondheim and Porter (and to a lesser extent, Cy Coleman and Carolyn Leigh) wonderfully and like no one else.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 7:48pm

Sondheim has said in statements that he stayed completely out of the picture.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/16/13 at 8:11pm

How could somebody listen to him talk for the better part of 90 minutes and hear him sing in the last video and not know who was singing "Broadway Baby"?

It helps if the listener is turned off by the first two lines and hits the "Stop" button. As I said, I didn't think "Cocker" at first, but by the time it was suggested by someone else I had stopped the cacophony.

I too enjoy some of Sondheim's singing, particularly his "Anyone Can Whistle" on the "Scrabble" album. But coming after some of the dreadful other numbers, I wasn't going to endure an unknown stranger talk-sing "Broadway Baby" badly.

How can someone who pretends to be an adult howl with glee because another poster makes a simple error? Don't we all get over that behavior by second grade? Oh, and BTW, these, too, are "rhetorical" questions. Notice how writing "rhetorical" doesn't make it so.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 12:21am

I re-watched the doc with a friend who hadn't seen it yet and like jv92, my reaction remains unchanged. The Todd Haynes' directed "I'm Still Here" was a brilliant deconstruction of the songs. It's not the first way I'd want someone to hear the song, but given that song's ubiquity in the theatre and in the cabaret acts of nearly every single woman-of-a-certain-you-know-what, audiences have had endless chances to hear that song the way it's "meant" to be heard. Frankly, I'd love to see a full program of Todd Haynes Sondheim deconstructions. A bit like that Kurt Weill film/album from the early 90s that PJ Harvey sang on.

[darquegk]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 12:30am

I love the two albums that came out of the Kurt Weill deconstruction projects, "Lost In The Stars" and its later companion, "September Songs." Tying the two together are two different performances of "September Song" by Lou Reed about a decade apart, one a fairly cocky, ironic performance from a youngish man, and the other a more rueful performance by an aging avant-garde artist who knows he is past his prime.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 12:39am

Love what Todd Haynes did. What Jarvis Cocker did was not worth doing.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 8:35am

I usually hate "Am I the only one who...?" questions because of their inherent narcissism, but it may be warranted in this case:

Am I the only person who liked the Jarvis Cocker performance?

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 8:44am

Bleeccccch.

[artscallion]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 8:52am

I really liked it. Having heard thousands of middle aged women sing it the same exact way for years, each trying to out-do the other, I thought this was a breath of fresh air.
The contrast between Cocker, who sang the song for what IT was, not for who HE was or who it was about, and the women in the audience slowing coming to recognize pieces of themselves in the song was brilliant. The song was presented as just another hipster song that nobody in the audience really paid attention to until the women started cocking their heads to it, almost like it was a dog whistle only they could hear. It was like that song is so true that even if the singer doesn't relate to it, the people it's about will. Loved it!

Updated On: 12/17/13 at 08:52 AM

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 10:12am

art, YES, and thank you!

In the tradition of Sondheim's songs lending themselves to vast and wild interpretations -- because they're just that goddamned good -- I found the whole set piece touching, sometimes heartbreaking (I admit I teared up as it went on), as well as visually compelling and downright ballsy. I heard several of the lyrics anew, not just in Cocker's vocal interpretation, but in the cuts to those ladies in the audience. Everything was of a piece. Sure, that piece is odd, but the choice to juxtapose the traditional talking-heads-interview segments with incredibly nontraditional filmed song sequences was what -- for me -- made this more than just another love-letter documentary. Sondheim's never shied away from toying with established forms. This made sense to me.

Updated On: 12/17/13 at 10:12 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 10:23am

I didn't think he sang the song at all ... and by that, I do mean "literally." He fumbled most of the lyrics as written, he didn't sing the melody, and he didn't show any sense of connecting to the song in any way whatsoever. Zero thought behind it. He postured and posed and mocked. It was completely terrible.

Updated On: 12/17/13 at 10:23 AM

[JRybka]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 10:37am

Obviously, Sondheim (and Frank Rich) was okay with his version. I liked it... 'cause it was like he was a smarmy singer and the ladies all listening heard something in the song that touched them and came to the point of realization that "i'm still here"

My husband who is not as obsessed as I am with Sondheim, thought it was an amazing master class of sorts. I loved the stories and the interplay of the shows. And someone get America a show on Broadway...... I think she is wonderful.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 12/17/13 at 11:25am

to bestie, my heart:


“I didn't think he sang the song at all ... and by that, I do mean ‘literally.’”

I’m okay with that.

“He fumbled most of the lyrics as written, he didn't sing the melody…”

I only watched it once, but is that accurate? He liberally backphrased and added a couple of “ands” (I think), but surely you’re using hyperbole? The verses proper were at least 95% intact, right? The meat of the song? Or did I really and truly miss something?

“…and he didn't show any sense of connecting to the song in any way whatsoever. Zero thought behind it. He postured and posed and mocked. It was completely terrible.”

I just… disagree. I don’t know how to explain this difference of opinion. Zero thought? Zero? Lapine (or Haynes) went to Jarvis Cocker and asked him to sing this legendary song in this film about a musical legend, under these conditions, et cetera, X, Y, and Z, and Jarvis Cocker literally didn’t give it a single second of thought? And not only did he not think about it, but he scornfully mocked it?

Having no evidence to the contrary other than that I found it touching and compelling, I suppose that’s possible. It just seems unlikely.

Updated On: 12/17/13 at 11:25 AM