ALW's The Wizard of Oz broadway- Page 3

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 2:27pm

Aside from the lack of quality of Webber's "new" material, which is plainly recycled - like much of his cannon, and aside from the fact that they neglect to include some of the more iconic moments that the audience wants and expects to see and feels let down without, the fact remains that it is apparently in the writing, let alone in the interviews he granted, that Webber has contempt and disrespect for the source material, the film and, utmost, the characters. His writing clearly comments on those feelings. You can not do an honest and heartfelt adaption coming from that mindset.

(I can have a lengthier tirade later.)

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 3:40pm

Recycled is an understatement. He uses "Night On Bald Mountain" for the music during the tornado.

I think it would be an interesting exercise to try to find and revamp the songs from the original "Wizard of Oz" musical from 1902 with a book and lyrics by Baum himself. I think a good arranger could make them up-to-date. It obviously was a fun show as it toured for 9 years. I understand there are sections that were allowed to change to accommodate the talents and schtick of the star touring in the show at the time.

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 3:49pm

That stupid song where the Witch twirls the Dorothy doll around has got to go. (It's a very weird song-and that is not a good thing.)

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 4:53pm

"Recycled is an understatement. He uses "Night On Bald Mountain" for the music during the tornado. "

To be fair, the original film also used "A Night on Bald Mountain" interwoven into parts of the score, though, as I recall, it was used during Dorothy's rescue and the chase through the Witch's castle, not during the tornado.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 5:59pm

There oughta be a law...

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 6:25pm

Yes, AEA. "Night on Bald Mountain" shows up as a musical phrase when the three friends break into the Witch's castle.

DillyFan, Bum's intended libreyto was never performed it was more faithful to his novel, but the producers elected to overhaul it, with extreme changes to the plot. As was standard in the era, much of the show was very loose and entire songs and bits were alterd to allow the various stars to do their iconic rouuines.

[Wildcard]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 6:49pm

I thought the show was campy. However, they might as well have pushed it more. It wasn't campy enough. I was also quite disappointed by the "melting" effect. While simpler, Wicked had a more creative execution.

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 9:49pm

May I ask what "Gay" Jokes are referred to in the show?

[Tag]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 10:01pm

The Lion is referred to as "a friend of Dorothy".

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 10:22pm

For what it's worth, and I am by no means supporting any of the bad decisions made by Webber & Co., the MGM film did have many "non-original" music cues as part of its score.

Night on Bald Mountain was used in the scene where the Tin Man is chopping down the door in the Witch's castle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEDfZgDPS8

Mendelssohn's Scherzo in E Minor is the music used for Toto's escape from the Witch's castle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXFyTEDiOUQ

The chase through the castle after the Witch throws her hourglass is a cue that Herbert Stothart (Oz composer) wrote for 1938's "Marie Antoinette" with Norma Shearer, and it can be heard when the royal family is escaping their palace in a carriage (a year before Wizard of Oz was released).

Schumann's Happy Farmer is Toto's theme, played first after the opening credits, also when he escapes from Miss Gulch's basket, and heard in the tornado music and several other times throughout the film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It8rvzdhPrw

"In the Shade of the Old Apple Tree" a 1905 popular song, was used in the scene where Dorothy and the Scarecrow encounter the apple trees:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJfaZWvp5o

Updated On: 10/4/13 at 10:22 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 10:23pm

The Yip Harburg lyrics in the MGM film have several "gay" jokes about Bert Larhr's lion: "Oh, it's sad, believe me, missy, / When you're born to be a sissy" or "I'm afraid there's no denyin' / I'm just a DANDY-lion..."

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/3/13 at 10:41pm

^Were those lyrics intended to be gay jokes though? I've never really thought of those lines as Harburg hinting that the lion was gay. Cowardly dosen't equal gay. To me that's more of a modern day interpretation, but I could be wrong.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 12:20am

Yes, they were. He even gestures with a limp wrist when he says that "dandy-lion" line.

And that's the way Yip Harburg spelled the name of the flower in the lyrics: dandy-lion.

And some people have said that the phrase "friend of Dorothy" was first used to mean a gay person in reference to Lion in the movie.

Updated On: 10/4/13 at 12:20 AM

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 1:14am

Oh, the Lion is CLEARLY a screaming queen.. The screenwriters knew it, the composers knew it, Lahr played it to the HILT. Brilliantly, I might add. Lahr was playing the Nance of the Wizard of Oz. He was vaudeville vet and he knew perfectly well the stock character and managed to do it in a wonderfully effective, and oddly non-offensive, way.

Yes, "Friend of Dorothy" evolved out of a reference to that, growing with Judy's status as an icon within the gay community.

No, Cowardly does not mean gay. But MGM's adaption of Oz is DEEPLY rooted in vaudeville. hence, the Lion as a nance.

As best12bars points out, Herbert Stothart made heavy use of classical music and previously used songs throughout the background score for Oz. I criticize Webber for his mass rehashing of his own music for EVERY show he has written in last 30 years and his ridiculous idea that those bombastic melodies and Rice's trite lyrics would mesh in ANYWAY with the work of Arlen, Harburg and Stothart.. particularly when he has Crawford as the Wizard and his act one closer sounds lifted directly from Phantom of the Opera and is sung by his opening night Phantom.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 1:47pm

Andrew Lloyd Webber's cannon.

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 3:56pm

Broadwayguy2: I understood the structure:
"there are sections that were allowed to change to accommodate the talents and schtick of the star touring in the show at the time."

"much of the show was very loose and entire songs and bits were alterd to allow the various stars to do their iconic rouuines."

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 4:15pm

"And some people have said that the phrase "friend of Dorothy" was first used to mean a gay person in reference to Lion in the movie."

The reference first was attributed to Doroty Parker. She had parties where gays and lesbians could be put and proud.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 4:27pm

DillyFan,
Yes, you do. My comment was noting that Baum's faithful adaption has never seen the light of day and only the outline really remains. But the loose structure dilluted it even more than what the producers initially put on stage, so itd be near impossible to recreate Baum's work. I was in no way saying that you didn't understand the structure, simply addressing the evolution of the musical from conception thru the run.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 10/4/13 at 4:41pm

"The reference first was attributed to Dorothy Parker. She had parties where gays and lesbians could be put and proud."

TheatreDiva you are right.

A friend of Dorothy or FOD is someone who identifies as homosexual or queer; the term can encompass a range of people in the queer community, from transsexuals to asexuals. This euphemism came into common use in the gay community in the middle of the 20th century, when people needed to be discreet about their sexual orientation. Although the gay community is increasingly "out" today, the term endures, especially to describe closeted people in the queer community.

There are several theories for the origins of this term. The most likely reason is that it is named for Dorothy Parker (1893 - 1967), a famous gay rights ally and icon who inspired a variety of slang terms within the queer community. Parker's witty, trenchant writing was often littered with euphemisms which were later adopted by the gay community, making it easy for people to identify each other without explicitly stating their orientation. People have been describing themselves as friends of Dorothy since the 1930s, lending credence to this theory.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/5/13 at 2:34am

^touche.
I have no doubt that this one phrase has come to include much, though that would seem to be the original.

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/5/13 at 8:31am

After digging around years ago on this to find the source, I'm of the opinion that it started with Dorothy Parker as well, because I doubt anybody would have said or thought to say this in connection with a 16-year-old actress in an MGM fantasy. And the phrase goes back to the 1930s when Garland was a teen, even pre Oz (and pre 1939).

But I also think this phrase didn't really catch on and become widely known or used until the '50s and '60s. That's because of Garland and her "gay icon" status and the decades of love for her and that movie.

So it may have started with Dorothy Parker, but it was perpetuated as a common term by the Garland/Oz connection.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/5/13 at 12:40pm

I was running a FOD meeting on a cruise ship years ago and Lorna Luft was the singer one week. She and became fast friends and she was the one that told me the phrase referred to ms. Parker.

I figure if Judy Garlands daughter says so, then it must be true!

Updated On: 10/5/13 at 12:40 PM

[Sally]

Posted: 10/5/13 at 2:39pm

I saw the show in London and found it quite enjoyable--definitely not a "theme park, bubble gum, hybrid mess."

I didn't get a lump in my throat when Dorothy left her friends, but I definitely did get a throat lump in the last scene when Dorothy is back in Kansas, alone in her room, and a cabinet door is rocked open and she sees....something reminiscent of the iconic spotlight-on-the-Phantom-mask at the end of Phantom of the Opera---only very appropriate for the Wizard of Oz. We are left with the "knowledge" that everything that happened was NOT just a dream.

The show did only moderately well in London and not great in Toronto. I rather doubt they will bring it to Broadway.

Oh, and ALW can be criticized for many things, but did someone say he couldn't write good melodies? Nonsense.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 10/5/13 at 3:14pm

^I disagree. I think Webber tried to do with The Wizard of Oz, what his buddy Cameron Mackintosh did with Marry Poppins except that formula didn't work for The Wizard of Oz because it didn't need it. It was a complete failure.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/5/13 at 6:46pm

Webber writes good meoldies in that they are tuneful. Bad melodies in that they have NO connection or relationship to the film score play as far inferior. He also hasnt written a new melody line in 30 years.