I'LL EAT YOU LAST uninvites Tony voters - Page 4

[DAME]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:26pm

Well that is really not how it works at all. And you also forget the amount of money they would have lost on those free tickets. In any event.. it is not like Tony voters should be spending their time going to see something they are not going to be voting for.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:29pm

I don't forget the money they could have earned. But they gambled by inviting voters before they knew whether they were nominated, and they should at least honor tickets that they have already confirmed. If someone else calls to reserve now, sure, say no. But if you have already confirmed someone's tickets, don't renege.

I can certainly understand why they are doing this, and if I were a producer, I might consider doing the same thing. But it is tacky.

[DAME]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:33pm

But it is not. Your thinking they got some invitation to come see the show and then it was taken away. That is not how it works.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:39pm

According to the original in this thread, that is exactly what happened to some voters: "Tony voters' tickets are no longer honored, even if they were booked prior to the nominations being announced."

That is what I have a problem with. If someone has already replied to the invitation and you have confirmed their tickets, it is tacky to take them away.

Also, I know exactly how it works, thank you.

[DAME]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:40pm

Sure man.. WHATEVER. You know it all.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:41pm

Let the Tony Voters who think it's "tacky" complain to the Nominating Committee.


Or let them friggin' BUY a ticket, like the rest of us do.

FREELOADERS!

[nealb1]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:41pm

I'm seeing the show today.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:42pm

You want to know what's TACKY? I'll tell you what's TACKY.

People who think they're ENTITLED to free tickets.

THAT'S what's TACKY.

[DAME]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 12:45pm

AMEN

[Noel&Cole]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 4:40pm

I feel the need to post again that because many people on this board are misinformed... I know some Tony Voters. Tony Voters are not freeloaders. They pay approximately $3,500 a year as membership to get that voter status. Yes-- $3,500 a year for tickets to every show is a good deal. (assuming you'd buy 2 tickets to every show that opens). But it's not free. It's not free at all. So they do pay. they just get a good package deal.

[Noel&Cole]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 4:43pm

And I heard Macbeth took back their invitation as well.

And to my above post... I say I completely understand why these shows took back the invite. It makes sense. I would do the same if I were them. But Tony Voters don't pay zero for their theatre privileges. They pay a sizeable amount of money

Updated On: 5/1/13 at 04:43 PM

[elphaba.scares.me]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 9:22pm

Wow...lots of borderline hostility toward Tony voters in these here parts. My original point was that it is a rule that you MUST invite the voters in order to be eligible for consideration. I understand the producers wanting to make that money later, if their show is not nominated (trust me, I get it). It's just somewhat sketchy to yank the tickets, and can create negative buzz for that producer's future projects when you work the system (see also: the backlash against McCollum and Seller after "Avenue Q", and how "Drowsy Chaperone" was perceived to be penalized.). But those are the chances you take for the short-term gain on behalf of your investors.

There are plenty of voters who can't afford to see shows without free tickets. And I'm only pointing that out because there seems to be a silver spoon stereotype.

Having been one of them for a while, I've found it to be an incredible task.

At the beginning you're all, "FREE SHOWS!!!" But fairly quickly, you realize that it's a big responsibility. You don't just get to cherry-pick the shows you'd like to see. You have an obligation to see everything.

I recommend that anyone who is a working theatre pro actually run for Equity Council, or whatever is the equivalent position in your trade union/guild and try it out. It is definitely fun. But it's also, like I said, a big commitment.

And I'd add that many of us who take the time to see everything (and really judge the shows on their merits) resent the hell out of anyone who comes into town for a week, or a couple weekends, sees a few shows, and then votes a full ballot. Often, those individuals are voting politically or in the interest of their wallets.

It really makes me angry when they disregard the rules about seeing every nominated show. And I think it corrupts the process. But believe it or not, there are plenty of voters who take all of it seriously.

Rant over.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 9:27pm

No one is begrudging a Tony voter their $3500 worth. I am sure they get it among the nominated shows. They don't need to see a show that the nominating committee deemed unworthy to nominate.

That's all we are saying. If a Tony voter pisses and moans that their viewing privileges have been revoked to a show that isn't nominated, that is entitlement. It's not a part of the package.

End of rant.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 9:47pm

elphaba.scares.me -- even if a Tony voter did see every show, their votes are STILL influenced politically or financially. I have a friend who works for a Voter who lives in London. She comes to town about once every other month, and misses a lot of shows. My friend reaps the benefits by taking the Voter's tickets for herself.

[oasisjeff]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 10:37pm

I think they should have given those people the opportunity to buy their ticket first, and then rescind it, but otherwise seems fine.

[elphaba.scares.me]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 11:02pm

I hear you, Hook (can I call you Hook?)

But that is actually a direct violation of the rules. You aren't permitted to give your tickets to friends or coworkers. People do it all the time, but it's dicey to judge everyone on the fact that some violate the honor system.

Seems to me the Tony committee needs to clarify their policy. As it stands, all 700+ voters must be invited to see a show before nominations (in order for the show to qualify for eligibility). But it's reasonable, in my opinion, for the Tony administration to suspend the expectation of voter accommodation if a show isn't in consideration for any awards.

It would be sensible to make it official that non-nominated shows can redirect that potential revenue toward recoupment, without the Big Bad (Tacky) Producer stigma. I agree that there's no point in giving away all those tickets when a show isn't in contention.

They could wait until nominations are announced to invite all the voters. But obviously there's a built-in problem here--not only does it mean shows that run early in the season would have zero chance that voters would attend, it also means that shows with fewer nominations would be skipped in the frantic run-up to the voting deadline. In short, there's no practical way that every voter would get to every show in those 3-4 weeks.

There should also be a better tracking system for who actually goes to the shows, versus who is supposed to be going. Ballots are anonymous, so it's difficult to track what everyone's seen and whether they're eligible to vote in the categories they do.

That said, in all my time as a voter, I don't think I've ever been asked for ID at the box office. Enforcing the ID rule would go a long way, especially if there was a zero tolerance policy and your voting privileges got revoked if someone else used your tickets.

Updated On: 5/2/13 at 11:02 PM

[Playbilly]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 11:22pm

It's actually easier for the Tonys to track who sees a show than the Oscars. For the Tonys, a voter actually has to enter a building and see a show. Easy to check: voter show ID. The AMPAS voter can see a movie through various media, so you have to take assume the voter has seen the movie.

Ballots aren't fully anonymous. They have to be tracked to a member.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 11:26pm

Pal Joey are you suggesting our friend Corine is TACKY?

[frankywhitley]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 11:38pm

GOOD FOR THEM!!! They shouldnt honor those tickets at all... since no tony voters are voting on THEM! make em PAY!

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 11:56pm

"They pay approximately $3,500 a year as membership to get that voter status. Yes-- $3,500 a year for tickets to every show is a good deal. (assuming you'd buy 2 tickets to every show that opens). But it's not free. It's not free at all. So they do pay. they just get a good package deal."

There are 26 shows that are nominated this year. Premium tickets for the Tony voter and their plus one would end up being over $10,000 a year in free tickets. And this isn't even factoring in the dozens of shows that closed earlier in the season that weren't nominated and they still received free tickets too.

That "considerable" $3500 fee you keep touting probably ends up being $15,000 in perks. So no, not literal freeloading, but seeing an entire Broadway season at pennies on the dollar is definitely not the mere discounted package deal you make it out to be.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/1/13 at 11:58pm

It would be super easy to track the attendance of Tony Voters. Each show should simply instruct the Voters to meet someone outside the theater and be given their tickets after showing ID. No more picking up tickets in advance, and no more picking up tickets from the box office. Since it is the Producers that want their product to be seen by the Voters, it is a small effort to do this.

While my proposed system would work, it's all moot. Because the ballots are anonymous, there is no way to track to make sure that the Voter only votes in categories in which they have seen all the nominated shows.

[logan2]

Posted: 5/2/13 at 12:00am

Did the producers really expect a nomination for Midler sitting on a couch for 80 minutes cracking wise about famous people? Midler's concert act has always been making fun of people like Helen Reddy, Madonna, or Karen Carpenter in between singing and dancing. Now she's just sitting down without the songs making fun of Diana Ross and Barbra Streisand. At least Holland Taylor does a two hour impersonation and moves around the stage.

I'll Eat You Last sounds like a fun show, but Tony nomination? Maybe Midler should consider not getting nominated a settling of the score for the unwarranted Oscar nomination for For the Boys.

[averagebwaynut]

Posted: 5/2/13 at 12:05am

Yero said: "But they gambled by inviting voters before they knew whether they were nominated..."

As Elphaba has already noted, they didn't "gamble". They were required by Tony rules to extend an invitation to at least 8 performances prior to nominations being announced. So yes, technically, they could have extended an invite for only those eight performances, then waited to see if they were nominated, and then extended their invitation to additional weeks or simply not re-issue the invite (if they were shut out). But in point of practical fact, that's rarely, if ever, going to happen (unless the majority of shows start doing it). From the show's point of view, they don't want to send a message that they are THAT worried about nominations. And vis a vis the voters, it's much more customer service-friendly to give them a wider selection of performances from the start.

With that said, the Tony invite lettter is not a binding contract. The shows aren't inviting the voters just to be nice. They're being invited because they are required to do so to be eligible for awards. If they're no longer eligible for an award, there's just no reason for them to give away free tickets.

Noel&Cole said: "Tony Voters are not freeloaders. They pay approximately $3,500 a year as membership to get that voter status. Yes-- $3,500 a year for tickets to every show is a good deal. (assuming you'd buy 2 tickets to every show that opens). But it's not free. It's not free at all. So they do pay. they just get a good package deal.

That's not incorrect, but it does misrepresent the nature of the payment. The payment is made to be a full member of the League and with full membership in the League comes Tony voter status. The two go hand in hand, but it's not like a League Member isn't getting his/her money's worth if they don't get invited to every single show -- they're not promised that and it's not a reasonable expectation. Indeed, some shows (Hugh Jackman comes to mind from last year) have never invited Tony voters at all.

I think it also bears repeating that if it's THAT important to a voter to see every show (that wants to be Tony eligible), they should see the show BEFORE nominations are announced, since the shows are required to invite them to a choice of at least eight performances pre-nominations. However, if nothing else, this will be a lesson to the die-hard voters that if they book for a performance post-nomination announcement, they're taking a calculated risk and if a show happens to be shut out like "Macbeth" and "I'll Eat You Last", they may lose their chance to see it for free.

The one other comment that struck me as a bit odd is the one about backlash to the producers. I would note two things: 1) for as many people who might be upset by the move (and it's likely only a handful who has actually booked and whose confirmed tickets were canceled), I think an equal or greater number applaud/admire the producers for protecting the potential revenue. That's what producers are supposed to do: put the needs of their investors first, even if it might generate some ill-will for themselves in the industry; 2) in the days of solo producers, it might have come back to bite someone more. But these days, when so many people share credits on so many shows, I don't see consequences of this for anyone. Especially on the Bette Midler show, where among the producers are the Shuberts AND the Nederlanders, I don't think any of them have anything to fear down the road.

[Playbilly]

Posted: 5/2/13 at 12:27am

The voting is anonymous to the public, maybe. Not to the accounting firm that counts the ballots. If the Tonys really wanted to make sure that the voters saw all of the nominees, they could do it. But, then, a poorly attended closed show with many nominations would throw the whole system off.

[averagebwaynut]

Posted: 5/2/13 at 1:09am

Even without a lot of nominations.

Case in point: at least in theory, the number of votes cast for Best Play this year should not exceed the number of Tony voters who saw "The Testament of Mary" since those who didn't are supposed to recuse themselves from voting in the category.

There's no way for us "regular folk" to know, but I'd be willing to bet that won't be the case.