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New Hampshire, just because

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iflitifloat
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New Hampshire, just because#0
Posted: 1/25/04 at 8:40am
The primary is coming up in two days and I still have no sense of what the outcome will be. I watched the debate the other night and no one did much to influence me one way or another. Of the four players who actually have a chance...Dean, Kerry, Clark, and Edwards... each has weaknesses. Dean is focused on damage control, and has probably handled his bellow faux paux as well as it could be handled...but I'm still not sold. Kerry probably presents the strongest overall package against Bush, but he's just not exciting. (And why does his adopted mantra, "Bring It On", irk me so much....Not sure.) Clarks is good on defense and security, but I'm not ready to bet the bank on domestic issues. Edwards confusion over the Defense of Marriage Act was disheartening, but at least he voiced strong support for civil unions (I know...not marriage...)
I'm keep waiting for someone to distinguish himself as a someone I can embrace and support whole-heartedly. And I'm increasingly worried that it is not going to happen.
Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10
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MasterLcZ
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re: New Hampshire, just because#1
Posted: 1/25/04 at 8:58am
Mr. Perfect is not going to come along this year. I just want ANYBODY who can beat Bush.

Even though I was heartened by the recent Newsweek poll that shows Kerry beating Bush, I'm not sold on Kerry.
I still think Clark has the best chance.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
Updated On: 1/25/04 at 08:58 AM
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Auggie27
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re: re: New Hampshire, just because#2
Posted: 1/25/04 at 11:04am
I disagree. I think Clark is far too green as a politician, not skilled -- which is to say, unpracticed -- in the flexibility and sponteneity required. I don't believe you learn the rough game of politics in the highest race there is. As Joe Klein says, "..he's a talented amateur." Too true, alas. As of today, I believe Kerry may evolve to become the only hope. And if he and Edwards team up, and produce a possible lock on the South, we could see the electoral college forecast change. Remember, that's what it's about. Don't forget 2000. Ever. Anyone who believes Dean can win enough electoral votes at this point is delusional, and not being pragmatic.

I think we must settle for someone who isn't our beloved. And give up some of our most precious items on our policy wish list, if we are to seriously face down the Bushies. I remember feeling complacent about Gore, assuming he was a done deal simply because he was far more knowledgeable. Until I read the polls after the debates. When Bush was monosyllabic and incoherent, a huge number of people said he'd "won".

We are not dealing with a voting populace who responds to intellect or a sense of personal idealism. We have to make peace with what this election must be about for Dems: getting rid of the Bush cabal. So trying to stand behind a candidate who's strongest on, say gay marriage or other less front burner issues, to me, is strategic suicide. I'm willing to risk the outrage of this board, but I say, save gay marriage for 2008. For now, focus on equality in spousal/partner rights (which Kerry is doing), civil unions, benefits. I personally fear the fight over gay marriage will erode much of the progress made in gay rights in post-Stonewall America. Let's move forward incrementally, scoring points as we go. To me that means one thing: Let's take back the White House first. Let's see a gay cabinet member. A president who appears at a Mathew Shephard foundation event. Issues a proclamation or a statement against hate crime. A president who simply USES the word gay. Then, maybe, we can reach for the ultimate brass ring.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
Updated On: 1/25/04 at 11:04 AM
FindingNamo
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re: re: re: New Hampshire, just because#3
Posted: 1/25/04 at 11:17am
"I think we must settle for someone who isn't our beloved. And give up some of our most precious items on our policy wish list..."

You mean, just like in my relationships?

Village Voice editor Richard Goldstein has a great column in the Clark-looking-hot-on-the-cover issue of The Advocate that postulates the "compromise" of civil unions as the far more radical option. It's an interesting take.

The Advocate
Chat with the groan-ups: https://twitter.com/NamoInExile
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We need someone who will not support a constitutional amendment on marriage. Who will not appoint a conservative Supreme Court judge. Who can get people working again. Who can strive toward peace.

Anyone but Bush!

I saw a repeat of SNL last night, and the opening sketch played hugely on the remote possibility that Hillary could launch a campaign as late as the Democratic National Convention. I sorta wish for that. But, her timing might be better in 2008 or 2012--esp if Dubya does get reelected. (Heaven help us!)
Updated On: 1/25/04 at 12:48 PM
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I'm very off Hillary these days. I am just not very impressed with her senatorial performance.

I still love Clark, but Auggie's post is very reasonable and makes much sense.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
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iflitifloat
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Auggie, I thought that was a very brave post. It's very difficult to voice a moderate approach toward issues that are close to one's heart without feeling like a sell-out. But your reasoning about gay marriage is very realistic; very rational. I agree that it makes sense, in the current conservative climate, to secure the essential quality of life issues...civil unions, partner benefits, next of kin designation, adoption, etc...leaving the marriage issue for later.

I'm not gay, so maybe I'm not in a position to to say hold off on the marriage issue. But I am certainly sensitive to how painful it must be to not be able to marry a partner...to have to settle, as it were, for something a little less than what heterosexual couples can have. But I think that middle-America (philosophically, not geographically, speaking) will come to terms with civil unions far more quickly than marriage. To me it makes sense to secure the essential rights for now and aim for everything else next election.

And of course, the very real threat to our civil liberties, including privacy and reproductive rights for women, in addition to same sex issues, hangs over this election adding an urgency to the need to find an electable candidate. That may be coloring my instincts and making me think more conservatively than is my norm. But the bottom line, for me, is that Bush has to be removed from power while any of us still have rights left to preserve.
Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10
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Auggie27
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The Newsweek poll:

If the election were held today, 49% would vote Kerry, 46% would vote for Bush.

Look for Team Rove to pull their dossier on Kerry and start the season fresh. (Per NBC's Campbell Brown on Chris Matthews, FYI.)
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
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auggie, i'd worry more about the dean and clark people for the moment. remember, you've got howlin' howie who feels like he was sandbagged by the democratic establishment and his droves of manson family-like devotees, the deaniacs. also, clark has started to come a bit unglued as he sees his chances for success slipping away. karl and i have decided that we're going to let things play out a bit more, since the democrats have shown a frightening tendency to eat their young, so to speak. depending on how things work out in nh, the next two weeks could be the ugliest on record for kerry. edwards on the other hand is going to try to say absolutely nothing, do even less and keep putting his finger to his lips like in his little homage to dr. evil and hope that the frontrunners beat each other to death. kerry also ought to be a bit more leery of being seen sitting next to uncle teddy at bars, or at least be sure teddy's not driving him home.
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Auggie27
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How true, Papa, oh how true. The sniveling Deaniacs ("I love the fact that his wife has a real career! So what if he shows a little passion!") could pull a Nader, or a -- who was that masked man who ran with Carter and Reagan? -- John Anderson. A 3 way would have an ugly climax, so to speak.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
Updated On: 1/26/04 at 10:51 AM
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yeah, but then, everytime dean looks like he might mount a return to the top charge, he rams his foot down his own throat a la the latest reports that he has stated that the iraqi people's lives are worse now than with saddam in power. dr. dean has ordered the sauteed loafer for one...again.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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Another interesting new poll on CNN (sorry, can't site source), as of 4 p.m.

Among Dems: 30% Kerry, 17 % Dean, the others below. Biggest gap yet.

Up against Bush: Bush 49%, Kerry 45%. Kerry is consistently in the 40's next to Bush, as opposed to those 25-38% for Dean. I don't think that fact will go unnoticed.

Personally, I can't fathom Dean making a recovery. He hasn't eroded his position any further, but as of this past, critical weekend, he was still forced into constant damage control mode, at a time when others are perpetually "on message." (A hollow phrase I have grown to loathe.) It's not just about the damned "I Have a Scream." It's about his losing bigtime in Iowa. I'm weary of hearing how the media screwed Dean. I'm a Dem loving Democrat, but I agree with Papa. Dean is screwing Dean. In an era of sound bite, be ready if your (loud) sound gets bit more than you'd like it.

"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
Updated On: 1/26/04 at 04:26 PM
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and yet we really are at the beginning stages of this thing--let's wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks. Things might get very interesting. Or Kerry may be the man. But, after watching a special on CNN and a special on Fox (see--I can be fair and balanced, too), I suspect that this is only the beginning.