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He Won't Be Fired

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ctorres23
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He Won't Be Fired#26
Posted: 2/14/20 at 1:46am

Luminaire2 said: "I have managed restaurants.If someone applied for a job, and we were going to hire them, and then one of my staff told me they had shared nude photos of other staff at another restaurant, and it was proven then it happened... I most certainly would not hire them."

"...and it was proven then it happened" seems like the operative phrase here. That's the complicated part. If it's proven in a court of law, then sure.

However, if it's just strong rumor, and not legally proven, one could spin it as: it seems like you just found yourself a racist excuse to reject a fully qualified person of color. You'd have to be really careful with the demographics of who you ultimately hire for that position, because if it's a less qualified white guy, you could have a lawsuit on your hands.

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He Won't Be Fired#27
Posted: 2/14/20 at 1:47am

WestEndGal said: "Whichever way you swing on this I think it’s an absolutely awful statement which reads like it was written by lawyers, which it no doubt was!

I think everyone knows legally Ramasar can’t be or is not going to be fired, so this statement just misses the point entirely. It’s the fact that Ramasar engaged in sexually immoral behaviour with apparently no consequences to himself or his career, and WSS is basically saying “we’re not bothered because what happened didn’t happen on our turf”. I’m not out here saying he should never again work in the industry, but I think there should have some element of him having showed he was sorry for what happened and that he had learnt from it before he was so openly welcomed into another show. This doesn’t seem to have happened. WSS should never have hired him in the first place, but they did clearly with no moral compass and should expect they’re now going to get a backlash. It clearly is not going to make any difference to overall sales, but I’m glad if the protests at least make TPTB uncomfortable af.
"


thank you. That’s the tea. 

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He Won't Be Fired#28
Posted: 2/14/20 at 1:58am

WestEndGal said: "but I think there should have some element of him having showed he was sorry for what happened"

The girl whose nude photos he shared, Alexa Maxwell, has stated that he has apologized to her repeatedly and profusely. She supports him and remains his girlfriend. In what possible way is it our business that his apology to her be public?

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Tag
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He Won't Be Fired#29
Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:02am

^Umm cause she went to the press?

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He Won't Be Fired#30
Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:07am

Tag said: "^Umm cause she went to the press?"

You may be confusing Alexa Maxwell and Alexandra Waterbury.

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He Won't Be Fired#31
Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:14am

Nope.  Check out her NYT article from late January.

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He Won't Be Fired#32
Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:21am

Tag said: "Nope. Check out her NYT article from late January."

The article with the headline that reads, in part, "I Am Not A Victim" and includes the quote, "He apologized time and time again, and I think that it’s my choice as a woman to forgive him?"

Your argument is that article should spur an additional public apology? That doesn't make any sense.

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He Won't Be Fired#33
Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:28am

WestEndGal said: "Whichever way you swing on this I think it’s an absolutely awful statement which reads like it was written by lawyers, which it no doubt was!

I think everyone knows legally Ramasar can’t be or is not going to be fired, so this statement just misses the point entirely. It’s the fact that Ramasar engaged in sexually immoral behaviour with apparently no consequences to himself or his career, and WSS is basically saying “we’re not bothered because what happened didn’t happen on our turf”. I’m not out here saying he should never again work in the industry, but I think there should have some element of him having showed he was sorry for what happened and that he had learnt from it before he was so openly welcomed into another show. This doesn’t seem to have happened. WSS should never have hired him in the first place, but they did clearly with no moral compass and should expect they’re now going to get a backlash. It clearly is not going to make any difference to overall sales, but I’m glad if the protests at least make TPTB uncomfortable af.
"

But it HAS happened - it happened between the two people involved in the photo he shared - him and his girlfriend.  They are still together, as you know.  So, obviously they've worked it out, and just as obviously he has made amends with her.

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He Won't Be Fired#34
Posted: 2/14/20 at 4:49am
Scott Rudin is a businessman. If Ramasar’s presence had a detrimental effect on the show’s receipts, he’d be off like a dirty shirt. But it hasn’t. Like it or not, but people are voting with their wallets, and they don’t seem to care about Ramasar’s prior acts.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe." -John Guare, Landscape of the Body
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He Won't Be Fired#35
Posted: 2/14/20 at 5:12am
After that performance last night he should be let go. Ricky was 100 times better. Amar also got very loud boos during curtain call from the clan in the mezz
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He Won't Be Fired#36
Posted: 2/14/20 at 8:02am

WldKingdomHM said: "After that performance last night he should be let go. Ricky was 100 times better. Amar also got very loud boos during curtain call from the clan in the mezz"

They got in for free? If people are paying to boo him I'm sure the producers might even hold a special booing session as long as you're willing to pay

 

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He Won't Be Fired#37
Posted: 2/14/20 at 10:08am

I don't think anyone thinks his actions were "right" .

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
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He Won't Be Fired#38
Posted: 2/14/20 at 10:31am

WldKingdomHM said: "After that performance last night he should be let go. Ricky was 100 times better. Amar also got very loud boos during curtain call from the clan in the mezz"

I agree. Regardless of the horrible acts that occurred at the ballet (not everything is beautiful at the ballet, I guess), he was the weakest part of this production of West Side Story. His voice is horrible and compared to Isaac, Shereen, and Yesenia, he had the stage presence of a wet towel. 

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He Won't Be Fired#39
Posted: 2/14/20 at 10:54am

So I've been pretty open about the fact that I don't necessarily want Amar fired. I wanted the production to issue a statement that acknowledged they understood people's concerns and were taking extra steps to ensure that women in the production would feel supported, as well as have a safe channel to raise any issues they might experience.

This was NOT that statement. 

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 2/14/20 at 10:54 AM
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He Won't Be Fired#40
Posted: 2/14/20 at 11:19am

It still baffles me why he was hired in the first place. This is the second show he's been in that he's been noted as a poor singer and actor, with only dancing chops. He's also nearly twice the age of the character he's playing, visibly older than the rest of the cast, definitely not Latino playing a definitely Latino character, and on top of that, has this disgusting behavior in his recent history. He's not a "name" where his casting would have a financial impact on the show, and his atrocious actions, along with that whole ballet-frat-boy coterie, are fresh in memory. I find it so, so hard to believe that there were no other suitable candidates for the role that Ramasar was the only possible Bernardo. Which then raises the question: was there a statement being made with his casting in the first place, or intentional courting of this very controversy to drum up press coverage?

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He Won't Be Fired#41
Posted: 2/14/20 at 11:32am

And now we veer off into issues having nothing to do with his actions in relation to the protests. This is not about approving what he did, or what the statement said. The latter (and I agree it was written by a lawyer) was geared to avoiding a violation of labor laws as well as any tortious act. The applicable law is a fact, and facts are things within which intelligent discussion must dwell. If we do not like the laws as written, we live in a democracy and presumably know what t do about that.

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He Won't Be Fired#42
Posted: 2/14/20 at 11:54am

HogansHero said: "And now we veer off into issues having nothing to do with his actions in relation to the protests. This is not about approving what he did, or what the statement said. The latter (and I agree it was written by a lawyer) was geared to avoiding a violation of labor laws as well as any tortious act. The applicable law is a fact, and facts are things within which intelligent discussion must dwell. If we do not like the laws as written, we live in a democracy and presumably know what t do about that."

Agreed.

It's baffling to me that this incident warrants people engaging in "an act of protest" while there's a man unabashedly, in plain sight, on a daily basis, establishing a dictatorship under which we will all soon will live, and we collectively shake our heads and laugh.

I am not detracting or supporting either side. It just doesn't register anywhere on the issues of importance which trouble me on a daily basis. I have only so much bandwidth. This is a distraction.

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He Won't Be Fired#43
Posted: 2/14/20 at 12:01pm

bwayrose7 said: "It still baffles me why he was hired in the first place. This is the second show he's been in that he's been noted as a poor singer and actor, with only dancing chops. He's also nearly twice the age of the character he's playing, visibly older than the rest of the cast, definitely not Latino playing a definitely Latino character, and on top of that, has this disgusting behavior in his recent history. He's not a "name" where his casting would have a financial impact on the show, and his atrociousactions, along with that whole ballet-frat-boy coterie,are fresh in memory. I find it so, so hard to believe that there werenoother suitable candidates for the role that Ramasar was the only possible Bernardo. Which then raises the question: was there a statement being made with his casting in the first place, or intentional courting of this very controversy to drum up press coverage?"

Regardless of his talent or personal conduct, Amar Ramasar is far from "definitely not Latino".  He is half Puerto Rican.

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He Won't Be Fired#44
Posted: 2/14/20 at 12:12pm

Susanswerphone said: "I am not detracting or supporting either side. It just doesn't register anywhere on the issues of importance which trouble me on a daily basis. I have only so much bandwidth. This is a distraction."

We all get to decide what is important to us, but let me just point out that protesting and multi-tasking are not mutually exclusive. If one wants to take actions to highlight this issue, that does not mean that it is elevated above some other worthy protest. It is not a contest in which one must choose a side. 

 

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He Won't Be Fired#45
Posted: 2/14/20 at 12:18pm

sassylash3s said: "bwayrose7 said: "It still baffles me why he was hired in the first place. This is the second show he's been in that he's been noted as a poor singer and actor, with only dancing chops. He's also nearly twice the age of the character he's playing, visibly older than the rest of the cast, definitely not Latino playing a definitely Latino character, and on top of that, has this disgusting behavior in his recent history. He's not a "name" where his casting would have a financial impact on the show, and his atrociousactions, along with that whole ballet-frat-boy coterie,are fresh in memory. I find it so, so hard to believe that there werenoother suitable candidates for the role that Ramasar was the only possible Bernardo. Which then raises the question: was there a statement being made with his casting in the first place, or intentional courting of this very controversy to drum up press coverage?"

Regardless of his talent or personal conduct, Amar Ramasar is far from "definitely not Latino". He is half Puerto Rican.
"

My mistake, I must have been conflating him with someone else. Thank you for the correction!

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He Won't Be Fired#46
Posted: 2/14/20 at 12:25pm

SporkGoddess said: "...taking extra steps to ensurethat women in the production would feel supported, as well as have a safe channel to raise any issues they might experience."

Every Broadway show has annual sexual harassment seminars where these issues are covered - what is harassment, avenues to report, how to encourage a safe and inclusive work environment, etc. 

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He Won't Be Fired#47
Posted: 2/14/20 at 1:52pm

Every Broadway show has annual sexual harassment seminars where these issues are covered - what is harassment, avenues to report, how to encourage a safe and inclusive work environment, etc. 

Then include that in the statement. 

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
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He Won't Be Fired#48
Posted: 2/14/20 at 4:19pm

SporkGoddess said: "Then include that in the statement."

Why? What is it that you are advocating at this point?

 

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He Won't Be Fired#49
Posted: 2/14/20 at 4:51pm

Why? What is it that you are advocating at this point?

Again, that the production understands people's concerns but is taking extra steps to ensure that Amar's presence is not upsetting to the women in the production and that they know something will be done if he pulls anything with them. If they feel that is being met with their standard sexual harassment trainings, then make that explicit. Personally, I would also want them to take steps beyond just offering sexual harassment training, which is expected and standard at workplaces and doesn't exactly prove that a workplace will be safe for women.

I also really want a statement from Amar. I know he is limited in what he can say right now. But, as I've said a bazillion times in these discussions, maybe then don't cast him until the court case is over.

Part of the reason I'm so bothered about this production is because they have done such a TERRIBLE job responding to the outrage. This is just another example of that. 

Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 2/14/20 at 04:51 PM
bk
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He Won't Be Fired#50
Posted: 2/14/20 at 5:02pm

SporkGoddess said: "Why? What is it that you are advocating at this point?

Again, that the production understands people's concerns but is taking extra steps to ensure that Amar's presence is not upsetting to the women in the production and that they know something will be done if he pulls anything with them. If they feel that is being met with their standard sexual harassment trainings, then make that explicit. Personally, I would also want them to take steps beyond just offering sexual harassment training, which is expected and standard at workplaces and doesn't exactly prove that a workplace will be safe for women.

I also really want a statement from Amar. Iknow he is limited in what he can say right now. But, as I've said a bazillion times in these discussions, maybe then don't cast him until the court case is over.

Part of the reason I'm so bothered about this productionis because they have done such a TERRIBLE job responding to the outrage. This is just another example of that.
"

Well, it's not about you and what you want, is it?  This man has made an error in judgment - ONE error, for which he has apologized to the person involved.  ONE incident.  Go have a problem with Chase Finlay, who is the real villain here, if you must have a villain.  




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