Agent complains: Minorities are 'putting talented white performers out of work ... and it stinks'

[Dave28282]

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "

We've had decades and decades of white performers being the majority.

"When you're so used to having the upper hand, equality feels like oppression."

"

Have you read anything? Your arguments are already undermined multiple times.

Black people getting a higher percentage of roles than any other race is NOT equality.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

[Miles2Go2]

There’s a big difference between what we perceive to be true and what is objectively true.

Here’s my list for June:

- Skintight
- Angels in America
- Three Tall Women
- My Fair Lady
- Carousel
- The Boys in the Band
- The Iceman Cometh
- Spongebob Squarepants
- Once on This Island

I would say that if you listed all the lead and featured actors in all these shows, they would be overwhelmingly not people of color. If sometimes there is an overcorrection to atone for sins of the past, I’m confident that with societal progress this too shall even out over time.

[FactsAreFacts]

Just to be clear, African Americans are not getting a disproportionate number of roles, no matter what anecdotal "evidence" anyone relies on. 

According to the US Census Bureau, as of 2015, the African American population in the US made up 12.6% of the total population. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

However, according to Actors' Equity, in the years from 2013-2015, African Americans made up 10.89% of principal contracts in Broadway and National Tour plays, 8.68% of principal contracts in musicals, and 13.83% of chorus contracts. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1QufPYWJQEc4naChpN77ATG-3bzDRwrpw7MvqhnD1WEA/pubhtml 

So, maybe frame the conversation around real facts. 

[Miles2Go2]

FactsAreFacts said: "Just to be clear, African Americans are not getting a disproportionate number of roles, no matter what anecdotal "evidence" anyone relies on.

According to the US Census Bureau, as of 2015, the African American population in the US made up 12.6% of the total population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

However, according to Actors' Equity, in the years from 2013-2015, African Americans made up 10.89% of principal contracts in Broadway and National Tour plays, 8.68% of principal contracts in musicals, and 13.83% of chorus contracts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1QufPYWJQEc4naChpN77ATG-3bzDRwrpw7MvqhnD1WEA/pubhtml

So, maybe frame the conversation around real facts."

I love facts! 

[Elegance101]

Dave28282 said: "rattleNwoolypenguin said: "

We've had decades and decades of white performers being the majority.

"When you're so used to having the upper hand, equality feels like oppression."

"

Have you read anything? Your arguments are already undermined multiple times."

Where...? By you? That's laughable.

[HeyMrMusic]

I think people like Dave fail to realize how rare it is for casting directors to bring in people of color for leading and featured roles, especially romantic roles. They are typically only brought in for “diversity” or when a show/role is specifically about race, very rarely for the talent of the performer.

[Sauja]

THANK YOU, FactsAreFacts. Dave is just spewing nonsense about “whiny black people” claiming they’re over represented and tossing out careless numbers based in zero reality. “One in every three roles is black these days,” is a completely ignorant statement to make when it is DEMONSTRABLY UNTRUE.

So Dave, keep telling yourself you just want “real” equality, but know that the rest of us see <<post edited by BWW staff>> you don’t recognize in the mirror.

[Elfuhbuh]

I knew a certain poster would be drawn to this thread like a moth to a lamp. 

[Miles2Go2]

Elfuhbuh said: "I knew a certain poster would be drawn to this thread like a moth to a lamp."

I originally misread this as “a moth to a trump.”  Lol

[Elfuhbuh]

LOL. 

[Elegance101]

You know you're wrong when an account called "FactsAreFacts" is made TONIGHT exclusively to show you with hard evidence how warped your perspective is...

Welcome, FactsAreFacts! Please stick around for all of Dave's rants to come!

<<post edited by BWW staff>>

[BroadwayRox3588]

He'll come back later or tomorrow, with a long and drawn out monologue about how wrong and racist WE are. Because we don't express our sentiments on the poor white people of this world.

Also, how can someone type "black privilege" with a straight face?

[BWAY Baby2]

Though Trump is doing his best to impede social progress on every level- society is making strides toward equality in so many areas- the progress does not come over night- but it is being made. And let's not forget that although she lost the election due to the electoral college- the popular vote in the last election did favor a woman by 3 million votes- we have had a black President- and in so many areas, progress is being forged. And this will continue.

[Matt Rogers]

Broadwayworld deleted three of my responses to Dave tonight and yet they have let all of his racist rants be spewed all over this site for years. Censorship aside, I'm starting to wonder if this site is run by religious conservatives.

[RippedMan]

I can kind of see Dave's point, but I also feel like that is a step that needs to happen to get out on the other side. 

But as someone who is totally inclusive and open it does irk me to see shows like "Dear White People." I don't know, just rubs me the wrong way, but I guess, based on race, I'm just thrown in with the lot no matter how open minded. 

[HeyMrMusic]

When shows like The Color Purple, On Your Feet, and Miss Saigon close, those very talented actors of color need jobs. Heaven forbid those talented people who were good enough to be in those Broadway shows get other gigs where their cast mates are white. How ludicrous for there to be more than one talented actor of color in an entire cast because it would be a disproportionate amount of people of color in the world of the show. But the reality? These entire casts of people (from all three shows) compete for one ensemble track in the next show they audition for. Talk about disproportionate.

[seaweedjstubbs]

RippedMan said: "I can kind of see Dave's point, but I also feel like that is a step that needs to happen to get out on the other side.

But as someone who is totally inclusive and open it does irk me to see shows like "Dear White People." I don't know, just rubs me the wrong way, but I guess, based on race, I'm just thrown in with the lot no matter how open minded."

Have you ever watched Dear White People or the movie it's based on? Or are you just judging it off of the title? It's probably not the show/movie you think it is.

[bk]

Just to keep it real, here is a) what actually happened and where it was actually first posted, and b) what she actually meant, at least according to her.  But it IS fun to take words out of context without including whatever else may have preceded or followed these particular statements.

Hamilton responded to the criticisms claiming she was “devastated” and that her comments had been taken out of context.

“I was actually trying to express how all actors should be considered equal regardless of their ethnicity. We have a plethora of talented actors of all ethnicities and want them to have the same opportunities,” she said.

She added: “I absolutely do apologise for the wording used and [it was] entirely not how I meant it to sound but I was posting to a private group who know my character. I agree we have a long way to go and actors should always be cast on their talent as opposed to their appearance.”

[qolbinau]

The vision should always be unless a role specifically calls for a race, cast the best person for the role regardless of race. Same for the workplace.Maybe easier said than done though. It’s interesting because it felt like ‘affirmative action’ type ideas went out of fashion 10years ago but are now coming back full force. One of the unintended consequences is it does cause people to question whether you only got the job because of race or other factors such as gender. This wouldn’t be an issue if the factors weren’t part of the selection criteria - which is what the ideal vision for no discrimination looks like. Treat individuals as individuals not as group identities

[blaxx]

qolbinau said:


In any case the vision should always be unless a role specifically calls for a race, cast the best person for the role regardless of race. Same for the workplace.Maybe easier said than done though. It’s interesting because it felt like ‘affirmative action’ type ideas went out of fashion 10years ago but are now coming back full force. One of the unintended consequences is it does cause people to question whether you only got the job because of race or other factors such as gender. This wouldn’t be an issue if the factors weren’t part of the selection criteria - which is what the ideal vision for no discrimination looks like. Treat individuals as individuals not as group identities."

In theory, then, casting directors could pick all white performers, for all productions, because they consider these individuals to be the best people for all roles. Which means that the white performers will just continue to be the best for the roles, as they build more and more experience than the minorities. You really don't see anything wrong about this?  

[qolbinau]

Of course that is an issue - when I used the phrase “best person for the role” I think we both understand I am referring not to the subjective whims of an individual but a more of an objective best in terms of talent. Easier said than done I acknowledge. But I can’t see how the answer is with affirmative action. This seems to lead to a whole bunch of problems for all involved, no less by individuals and/or audience and/or colleagues that feel they are cast tokenistically. I personally think the answer is overhauling the selection processes used in the arts. Clearly define criteria for success and find a way to measure it at least semi-objectively. The selection process used for the arts seems incredibly behind other industries.

[Dave28282]

FactsAreFacts said: "
So, maybe frame the conversation around real facts."

So the amount of contracts still equals 12% in musical theatre, and in many cases, such as commercials, it exceeds it. So how much out of balance would you like to see it?

And not only that, if matching society is your number one concern, then you should be very grateful that the amount of contracts for poc already matches it.

Instead of standing up for equality for all races you still play the victim role. Which makes you part of the problem.

Because although it is fantastic that the numbers happen to match at this point in time, it is not logical. Because casting is a process of talent and chance. If 10 actors audition for a role, of which one black actor, there is a 90% chance the black actor does not get the role, based purely on equal statistics. Which would mean that there is a 90% chance that any show does not have a black actor, if based purely on talent. So the fact that black actors manage to get the high number of contracts to a point it actually levels society, already means that the percentage of chance is about ten fold as opposed to that of white actors. Something to think about. That is a more detailed description of the overrepresentation/privilege that black people have, which no other race has, which nobody complains about, which is fine, but a bit more perspective would be in place here.

[Dave28282]

HeyMrMusic said: "I think people like Dave fail to realize how rare it is for casting directors to bring in people of color for leading and featured roles, especially romantic roles. They are typically only brought in for “diversity” or when a show/role is specifically about race, very rarely for the talent of the performer."

Nonsense, I see black Phantoms, black Carlotta's, black Jean Valjeans, black Enjolrasses, black Eponines, black Doody's and Marty's, Black Russian Aristocrats, Asian Aladdins, Black and Asian Grace Farrels, etc, etc. In the tv world I see about every judge, lawyer, police officer, love interest, partner, basically every role being a poc.

 

[Dave28282]

qolbinau said: "The vision should always be unless a role specifically calls for a race, cast the best person for the role regardless of race. Same for the workplace.Maybe easier said than done though. It’s interesting because it felt like ‘affirmative action’ type ideas went out of fashion 10years ago but are now coming back full force. One of the unintended consequences is it does cause people to question whether you only got the job because of race or other factors such as gender. This wouldn’t be an issue if the factors weren’t part of the selection criteria - which is what the ideal vision for no discrimination looks like. Treat individuals as individuals not as group identities"

True, equality starts where selection criteria end. And that means the possibility of all situations in casting, also a production with an all white cast. As long as it is a 1 way street, equality will never exist. People who keep thinking in a 1 way street are the core of this problem without realizing it. This casting director deserves an award.