pixeltracker

Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS- Page 2

Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS

QueenAlice Profile Photo
QueenAlice
#25Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 9:55am

Okay but then the other question would be "why" would they do it? They clearly didn't make an effort to noticiably enhance the other (mostly mediocre) singing voices in the film- and Marshall didn't take the initiative to say, make Nicole Kidman sound like  Laura Benanti in NINE. So why would they do this for Streep whose voice has always been fine and at least as good as the principals in his other musical movies.


“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”

LizzieCurry Profile Photo
LizzieCurry
#26Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:06am

Any coincidence this was posted today as well?

http://www.talkinbroadway.com/allthatchat_new/d.php?id=2349712


"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt

Dodge3
#27Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:12am

Good question. If you look at Sondheim's work, he is the first to say he writes for actors who sing, not singers. Best example is Lansbury — not a trained singer, occasionally dubbed in her MGM films (i.e. THE HARVEY GIRLS) but allowed to sing for herself in less presentational, more British-centric pieces, like THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY or TILL THE CLOUDS ROLL BY.  On stage, she emerged as the prototype of the actor who sings.  "The Worst Pies in London" could trip up the best of singers, but not an actor.  So, barring an occasional "Green Finch and Linnet Bird," Sondheim usually writes for actors.  INTO THE WOODS was written largely for actors who sing, but, based on his knowledge that Bernadette Peters was cast, his writing for the Witch is different. He knew he had a singer to work with, and the result is that her music is more challenging, more rangy, especially the bridge in "Stay With Me" and all of "Last Midnight."  The reason they would have needed to dub those sections in the film version is because their name-above-the-title Witch was now an actor who sings.  In Kendrick, they had a singing actress as Cinderella, and Pine is off the table because Marshall directed "Agony" broadly, almost for laughs, in the movie.  All other characters in the film are actors who sing.

It was clearly Rob Marshall's intent that all of the actors sing for themselves in this film; Streep's dubbing likely became a necessity after the fact, especially given the pyrotechnic staging of "Last Midnight."  If her vocal performance did not adequately merge with the imagery in rushes, something would have to be done.  Once they had Murphy in the studio, they probably took inventory on all of Streep's vocals and decided to add the bridge of "Stay With Me" to her chores as a safeguard.  And if you recall, it was that clip — the "Stay With Me" bridge — that was most often used by Disney during the film's hype period.  It was the first clip released; you saw and heard it everywhere, presumably so that, in conjunction with the unveiling of Streep's distorting make-up, audiences would immediately accept the voice they were hearing as hers.

Updated On: 9/23/16 at 10:12 AM

SporkGoddess
#28Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:28am

Has anyone compared how she sounds in ITW to how she sounds in Ricki and the Flash?  She sings a lot in that movie.


Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!

ChairinMain Profile Photo
ChairinMain
#29Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:49am

I will not deny that when I first saw the film my mind went immidietely to Donna Murphy when things got belty. But after repeated listenings, I was not so sure, and after listening to the sections you outline I am less sure than that. There's absolutely digital sweetening going on, but I think it is all (or almost all) Streep. If Murphy's in there (and it's possible) I think it's on idividual notes. And no, that is not Bernadette on "It's Yours" - I'll admit it's a similar sound, but thats just how the word lands in the phrase. 

Kad Profile Photo
Kad
#30Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 10:59am

Sweetening, sure, but mixing with Murphy's vocals, who can say for sure? It's obvious that Streep can sing, and sing quite well, and had extensive vocal coaching and preparation for this role. Streep certainly approaches her singing from a character angle, which means how she sang in Mamma Mia and how she sang in Ricki and the Flash and how she sang in Mother Courage or how she sings in various concert performances will all be slightly different based on what she feels the role needs.

Ultimately, I don't think any potential mixing with Murphy's vocals matters. Meryl wasn't dubbed the way Audrey Hepburn or Natalie Wood were dubbed.


"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

Mr. Nowack Profile Photo
Mr. Nowack
#31Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 11:49am

It's like saying Julia Childs was overdubbed for her performance in that one movie.

Sure she resembles Murphy a tad, but I don't think it's identical.


Keeping BroadwayWorld Illustrated

broadwayboy223
#32Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 12:00pm

This is ridiculous. She was not dubbed. Most likely sweetened. I hear the Donna esque inflections but I think that was something she picked up. You have to remember in Meryl's hey day she studied with a really famous voice teacher and she was a coloratura soprano. 

BJR Profile Photo
BJR
#33Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 12:09pm

This sounds like a bunch of conspiracy theory. It's certainly the rangiest part she's done on film, but the vocal choices and timbre sound distinctly her. And if anything, we'd be talking about, what, a belted note or two at the end? Silly.

Without question sweetened, though. Much like her appearance after the transformation is heavily CGI'd.

Auggie27 Profile Photo
Auggie27
#34Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 12:14pm

As per above, listen to "Ricky and the Flash," in which she performed her songs -- some even live -- up a storm.  I remember Rick S going on every talk show to speak about how persuasively Streep sang, and how intimidating she was as a vocalist. Everyone brought his A game to match her. I firmly believe she does a lot of homework, and likely listened to everyone who played The Witch successfully, choosing what she wanted and leaving the rest.  It makes solid sense, and then it also makes sense that her vocals were purified with tech.  It's common, it's ubiquitous.  I also don't think Streep would cotton to here work being overdubbed.  Nor do I believe Marshall or Disney would want to mess with the biggest female star's work. 


"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling

ljay889 Profile Photo
ljay889
#35Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 12:49pm

I find it even eerier that this same topic was posted on ATC. Initially, I thought this thread was crazy but now I'm absolutely fascinated by it. 

lovebwy Profile Photo
lovebwy
#36Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 1:18pm

I've always thought that Elaine Paige sounds like she dubs some of Nicole Kidman in Moulin Rouge. I was always too embarrassed to bring it up for fear that the notion was absurd. Until now!

Seriously, at the time, I did think it was possible.

 

darquegk Profile Photo
darquegk
#37Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 2:04pm

Isn't there a similar rumor that Ben Vereen is actually singing "All Good Gifts" on the Godspell soundtrack?

newintown Profile Photo
newintown
#38Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 2:14pm

The real problem, I think, is that doctors are too quick to prescribe pills that some people just should avoid.

ljay889 Profile Photo
ljay889
#39Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 4:06pm

Just listened to LAST MIDNIGHT and the similarity to Donna Murphy's vibrato on the word world during "I'm the witch, you're the WORLDDDD" is uncanny. Wow. 

If this was a dub job, I wonder if it was so secret that not even Streep knew? Wasn't it said that Roz Russell didn't know for years that 95% of her Gypsy vocals were dubbed in the final cut?

Updated On: 9/23/16 at 04:06 PM

g.d.e.l.g.i. Profile Photo
g.d.e.l.g.i.
#40Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 6:40pm

darquegk said: "Isn't there a similar rumor that Ben Vereen is actually singing "All Good Gifts" on the Godspell soundtrack?"

It is confirmed in Carol De Giere's book The Godspell Experience that he sings about seven or eight seconds of it. The late Andrew Martin's book All for the Best, a book specifically devoted to the making of the film, notes that they contemplated having him dub the full song, the justification being that they wanted a voice with Lamar Alford's volume and more melody, but decided against it. The segment Vereen sings on the soundtrack (from 2:15 to 2:27 at this link) is mixed low enough -- by comparison anyway -- in the film that you can just barely hear him, but if you strain to listen, it's still there. No clue why they kept just those two lines in his voice, but it's clearly his.


Formerly gvendo2005
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05

Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus
Updated On: 9/23/16 at 06:40 PM

jimmycurry01
#41Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 7:00pm

In the world of social media, it seems like it'd be easy to just outright ask Donna Murphy if there is any truth to this. If she says "no comment" then it is forever open to speculation, if she gives a definite answer, then there we'd have it.

It seems people are already comfortable coming up to her on the street to ask questions about her career, so why not tweet at her or something? It has to be more polite than spreading unfounded rumors.

Mrtrobz
#42Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/23/16 at 7:30pm

I think there is a video of Meryl singing live on set in the DVD features that they mixed with the recorded version.

Dodge3
#43Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/24/16 at 10:06am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIwY_Hd0tE

icecreambenjamin Profile Photo
icecreambenjamin
#44Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/24/16 at 11:17am

I made sure to listen to Stay With Me again and I really have yet to hear Donna Murphy at all.  How do we always seem to forget that Meryl is a trained singer who went back to get extensive training for this film and also Florence Foster Jenkins?  I'm sure that there is some vocal sweetening, but it's all her voice.  She actually sounds like one of the less "fixed" voices on the soundtrack.  As a huge Donna Murphy fan, I can pick her voice out anywhere, but I definitely do not hear it here.

keywslt2 Profile Photo
keywslt2
#45Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/24/16 at 1:35pm

(Voice over) EARN YOUR DEGREE AND START YOUR NEW CAREER IN:

Home Care Nursing

VCR Repair

Hollywood Dubbing Historian

Personal Computer

Businesses.

Don't wait! Call today!

 

HorseTears Profile Photo
HorseTears
#46Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/26/16 at 1:52am

Ha.  I enjoyed reading this thread, even if it is a bit nutty.  You know, when watching the film I kept trying to think of whose voice Meryl's singing reminded me of.  It definitely was Donna.  It seems almost believable; especially given her connection to the piece on stage and in film.  

 

I definitely do not hear Bernadette on that one line, though.  I think that's a bit ridiculous.

 

Anyway, since Disney is a public company, do they have to disclose all of their salaries/compensation packages in their tax filings?  Perhaps our intrepid sleuth can do some digging there to see if there are some unusual payments made to Donna Murphy.  

ageorges3 Profile Photo
ageorges3
#47Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/26/16 at 2:22am

I saw bits of the Into the Woods movie last summer and was impressed by the overall level of talent - Baranski was sensational (she's perfect in everything she does, the caliber of her work in Good Wife and even smaller supporting roles like in the Birdcage is consistently stellar) and Streep was awesome (when isn't she?).  

Didn't notice too much about the specifics of the dubbing and accompanying arrangements with ITW though - with Les Mis, it was an entirely different story.  I loved the live singing - the authenticity conveyed (sounds like terminology from someone with film pedigree wearing a beret, but it's definitely something I'd wager most people appreciate even if they can't put a label on that phenomena - as I couldn't as a younger child) was noticeable - the vocals had a certain grit associated with them (Jackman in particular - the guys doing the audio capture (less in the way of editing here given that it was caught live during the action) were geniuses - little vocal nuances - a vibrato during the Soliloquy, the vocal gruffness of Crowe's Javert (awesome performance - if some (and to each their own - it's a completely valid perspective regardless of my own thoughts) thought of his performance: "he's miscast", etc - I respect that opinion, it certainly has its merits, but I'm in the camp that thought he brought something interesting to the work from a perspective outside the theater world.)  All of the vocals - even during Look Down (used to listen to that one frequently and marvel at the gloriously orchestrated music written by Boublil and Schonberg - the ensemble chanting was more than a theatrical way to start the story and bring the audience right into the narrative in a pretty compelling way.)  

devonian.t Profile Photo
devonian.t
#48Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/26/16 at 3:00am

Some people use the term "conspiracy theory" like there have never been any conspiracies exposed ever.

artscallion Profile Photo
artscallion
#49Vocal Dubbing in the Film Version of INTO THE WOODS
Posted: 9/26/16 at 6:51am

Just rewatched this last night and I can definitely hear what people are talking about. I didn't noticed it when I first watched the film. But last night all I could hear was Donna Murphy. Of course that doesn't convince me of anything. Artificial manipulation of Meryl's singing could have resulted in that.

On another note, I don't remember it being mentioned in discussions before, but did anyone notice the few bars of The Night Waltz from ALNM played when we see the guests arriving at the first night of the festival?


Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.