Streisand/Normal Heart- Page 2

[haterobics]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 3:31pm

Shortbus, 9 Songs, and Happiness are all unrated movies, which greatly reduced their distribution as a result. So, yes, there was a money shot, but it greatly reduced their shot at money.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 3:35pm

I saw two out of three in theaters. The exact same kinds of theaters that would have shown The Normal Heart, had it been a theatrical release.

[haterobics]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 3:40pm

Your ability to see them in a theater doesn't mean they didn't face a more limited distribution as a result of their content and ratings.

I doubt Barbra was planning to make a limited release arthouse picture, but probably was hoping for something more mainstream like Philadelphia as far as distribution.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 3:47pm

Okay man. You're a hundred percent right. There has never been a money shot in any sort of film that was even remotely mainstream at all with any sort of recognizable star. Not ever. Never ever. EVER.

The Streisand/Kramer Money Shot Argument is a MacGuffin anyway.

Updated On: 5/28/14 at 03:47 PM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 4:25pm

Those unrated flicks that FN mentioned are not mainstream feature films with major distributors.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 5:53pm

I think going with HBO made the most sense if they wanted the film to be *seen.* I guess that's an obvious point, but even with Julia Roberts, the film otherwise would have gotten the exposure that 9 Songs, Shortbus, etc, got. Even without a cumshot (it probably would have gotten slightly more exposure with one, though.) Even though its ratings were only a bit above HBO's Looking, it still got more eyeballs than it would have on any theatrical release.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 5:54pm

*edited* significantly more than Looking:

The Sunday premiere of The Normal Heart — Ryan Murphy’s stellar adaptation of Larry Kramer’s play about the HIV-AIDS crisis in early ’80s New York City – was a solid hit for HBO.

The movie, which starred Mark Ruffalo and Matt Bomer, averaged 1.4 million viewers across two plays Sunday. The premiere at 9 averaged just under one million viewers, with an additional 434,000 at 11:15.

Its premiere ranks fifth in viewership among the 17 films that HBO has premiered since 2010.

[BobbyBubbi]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 11:11pm

PalJoey-

You are right, it wasn't in the Edwards Biography, I apologize. I can transcribe what is in the Edwards Biography about Larry and Barbra if anyone is interested. I can't remember where I heard about the cumshot thing. I KNOW I read it somewhere. It was something about showing one of the characters shoot onto a pillow or into the hand of his partner. I'll keep digging. I distinctly remember the pillow thing. Members over at the Barbra Streisand Forum would be able to tell you. It's been lore apart of the Kramer/Streisand feud for a long time.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 11:16pm

As long as it doesn't start another argument over which kind of cinematic come shot is mainstream enough.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/28/14 at 11:20pm

That cum shot thing NEVER happened and you know it.

I HATE when people make things up and post them on the Internet hoping to make it stick.

Updated On: 5/29/14 at 11:20 PM

[BobbyBubbi]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 12:45am

^^ wow. quite the visceral response. Take a look at these links:

http://thebarbrastreisandforum89123.yuku.com/topic/17655/Barbra-Streisand-finds-gay-sex-distasteful-says-Larry?page=1#.U4a9Xi82x78

"Larry Kramer is full of ****. He wanted to include a CLOSE-UP shot of semen on the bed. Barbra balked and that was what the fight was about -- it had nothing to do with the actual lovemaking act."


Look at what user vwpatterson3 wrote there. He's a respected member of that forum. Everyone over there is talking about it. I'll find where I read it just to prove you wrong.

I assumed you were more of a compassionate person. Specially with your other thoughtful post in the Normal Heart section. Guess I was wrong. Don't shoot the messenger. You disgust me.

Updated On: 5/29/14 at 12:45 AM

[BobbyBubbi]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 4:57am

I went back and checked. It IS Anne Edwards book, STREISAND A BIOGRAPHY. Originally, I was looking at pages 422 through 427, the first time Edwards brings up Kramer and The Normal Heart. This marked the first time Kramer and Streisand worked together to try and get it done, however Kramer didn't want to share credit on the screenplay, so he backed out. This part doesn't include the excerpt about semen.

But on pages 469-470. Edwards describes Streisand and Kramer's renegotiations in the spring of 1990.

The excerpt about semen is as follows: (this is Larry talking to Edwards)

" 'Well, the scene where the two men make love believing they have engaged in safe sex and there is a spot of semen on one of the guy's chest, and they don't know whose it is and one of them indicates that it could be poisonous.'

" 'That is what I wanted to show. That a slip like that could kill you. I think it's very moving. And she [Barbra] replied, simply, with finality, 'You can't show seamen on somebody's chest."

PalJoey- WHYYY on EARTH would I make something like that up? Honestly. It's stupid. If you haven't READ the book in 17 or 18 years, I suggest you pick it up and read it before you fly off the handle. Next time remember your manners. There's your "clarification." Even if you don't deserve it. You're welcome.

Updated On: 5/29/14 at 04:57 AM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 8:21am

PeeJay is quick to chastise and fight, but then conveniently disappears when proven wrong or when someone actually speaks up against his incredibly polarizing ways.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 8:25am

Wasn't there a cum shot in NUTS? When Barbra is on the stand and Maureen Stapleton is jerking off Eli Wallach in the courtroom? I could have sworn that was in there.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 8:43am

A close-up of a liquid on a bedsheet or chest is a far different thing from a "cum shot."

You see--that's a legitimate disagreement between two artists: seeing a spot of semen and not knowing whose it was had a chilling effect in those early days of ARC and AIDS, similar to the moment in the movie when Taylor Kitsch pulls away from the kiss: body fluids were scary, even our own.

But they did NOT have a disagreement over a "cum shot"/"money shot"/penis-spurting-semen shot. You made it sound as if Larry requested something pornographic and Streisand refused.

In Larry's mind, he was requesting a visual that would have a medical and psychological effect on the audience, like a pool of blood has in a movie when it lets you know someone is dead. Only the semen, in Larry's mind, would have had a chilling mystery that reflected the fear we alkl felt back then about loving each other.

Barbra didn't get it: she couldn't get beyond the graphic nature of the image and thought it would backfire on the audience. She was probably right, at the time.

So this was a legitimate dispute between two creative people--an interesting moment in the break-up of their partnership that sheds light on each of their creative processes as well as on where the gay community was at the time--not the tabloid-y cum-shot story you posted.

Updated On: 5/29/14 at 08:43 AM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 8:54am

That is how you perceive BobbyBubbi's posts on the matter. You projecting that onto an internet message board does not make it the truth. It makes it your opinion and how you perceive it.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:22am

I sincerely hope the biography doesn't spell it "seamen."

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:29am

If it was shown spurting out or simply shown on someones chest it's still a shot of cum, is it not? Semantics.

Updated On: 5/29/14 at 09:29 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:31am

Sementics, you mean?

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:36am

^lolled

[Kad]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:39am

All I live for is your laugh.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:50am

It's only a matter of minutes before ads for Treasure Island Media show up on the side of this thread.

[darquegk]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 9:51am

It's only a cumshot if it's seen in motion, flying or hitting something. You don't have to see where it came from- in fact, usually, you can't, because it isn't actually being ejaculated at the time. It's 99% of the time a special effect.

[ArtMan]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 10:35am

In 1970, there was a movie called The Cheyenne Social Club, starring James Stewart, Hendry Fonda and Shirley Jones. They inherit a bordello with Shirley Jones, the madam. In one scene, they are in one of the bedrooms, and James Stewarts asks Shirley what is that on the bedpost. Shirley proceeds to wipe it off with her hanky. She then states it is "cum or sperm". I can't remember the exact words. But it was a reference to sperm. If anybody remembers this, verify it for me or feel free to correct me. But my point is this was a major motion picture, with A list stars and it was released in 1970. I know this was not a "money shot" but it made a specific reference to sperm. Her wiping it off the bedpost, made it even more specific.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/29/14 at 10:37am

Don't worry, the accessory will be here in a minute to explain how you got it wrong.

I bet the line was "gum or sperm".