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"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX"- Page 17

"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX"

uncageg Profile Photo
uncageg
#400FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 1:21am

Well, the series is about them, not the shows. I think the promos were a bit misleading. I was expecting to see more production numbers and better staged than the few we saw. But I am enjoying it. The performances across the board are stellar. It was a complicated relationship.

And now that we have this side of things, I would love to see a series or documentary based on him and the development of his style and work ethic.

I smiled a bit during the opening night party scene when they read the reviews. If only they knew..


Just give the world Love.

bk
#401FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 5:16am

Another dreary episode.  But it was one where there was finally something I loved: the recreation of Tony Walton's set.  THAT was art, thanks to Mr. Walton.  Otherwise, just more soap opera.  And of course the ratings are horrible.  I recommend highly the PBS show on Fosse (it's on YouTube), and of course All That Jazz is the perfect tonic.  If Bob Fosse talked that quietly in a rehearsal room not one person would have heard a word he was saying.  It was fun to see Danny Burstein.  

mamaleh
#402FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 8:40am

Last night's episode was the best by far.  Love seeing the two "Alfie"s (Butz & Burstein) in the same episode, but most of all the nuances of the relationship among Verdon, Fosse and their daughter are quite telling and fascinating.  As Nicole Fosse is heavily involved with the series, I'm thinking that the portrayals of her parents being parents is likely fairly accurate. The "warts and all" aspect  is very human: these theater folks are so self-absorbed that instead of watching their daughter's dance recital, they argue about the upcoming "Chicago."  

Interesting that Verdon in, what, 1959 or 1960--when she was only about 35--describes herself to the doctor as an "older" would-be mother. That would not be considered an "old" age to seek motherhood today.  

Auggie27 Profile Photo
Auggie27
#403FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 9:00am

Fully agree. As do Vulture, Entertainment Weekly, and Playbill, two of which said it was the best so far. It was the episode that best delivered on what the series promised, a synthesis of ambition and musical theater trial and error execution. The showdown over "Nowadays", whether reductively summarizing many heated discussions or not, was stunning, and of course Williams' finest hour. She made Verdon's plea deeply wounding but also a portrait of raw vulnerability. The personal and professional stakes, so layered through the series, all melded in that scene.  


"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling

SporkGoddess
#404FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 9:19am

Is it true that Fosse modified the choreography to be easier for Gwen (like having Roxie act like a puppet during "They Both Reached for the Gun"FOSSE/VERDON? I know very little about the original production of Chicago, and the Playbill review didn't address that. 


Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!

ACL2006 Profile Photo
ACL2006
#405FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 9:44am

It's interesting to note how long Gwen stayed with Chicago. After her surgery, she continued for about another year through 1976. Ann replaced her in Feb. 1977. Gwen then did the tour about halfway through it's run and closed the tour as Roxie in 1978.


A Chorus Line revival played its final Broadway performance on August 17, 2008. The tour played its final performance on August 21, 2011. A new non-equity tour started in October 2012 played its final performance on March 23, 2013. Another non-equity tour launched on January 20, 2018. The tour ended its US run in Kansas City and then toured throughout Japan August & September 2018.

BrodyFosse123 Profile Photo
BrodyFosse123
#406FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 9:46am

SporkGoddess said: "Is it true that Fosse modified the choreography to be easier for Gwen (like having Roxie act like a puppetduring "They Both Reached for the Gun"FOSSE/VERDON? I know very little about the original production of Chicago, and the Playbill review didn't address that."

Yes.  What was seen was the original staging created then modified for her.  Gwen did have extensive choreographed moments in the show, like the “Me and My Baby” strut, plus the “Keep it Hot” (aka “Hot Honey Rag&rdquoFOSSE/VERDON number.  I believe that original staging of “We Both Reached for the Gun” staging was actually seen out-of-town which is where the show went thru many changes.  

And yes, the original set design for the original 1975 Broadway production of CHICAGO was recreated completely by the original set designer Tony Walton.  The detail was so accurate I’m curious if those were the original neon artwork.  

By the way, he also recreated his mirrored set design for the recreation of the ALL THAT JAZZ finale in next week’s final episode of the series.  


ljay889 Profile Photo
ljay889
#407FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 10:19am

It honestly gave me chills to see the original set recreated, but also a sadness because we will probably never see a major production with the original staging and set again due to the Weissler’s revival. I love the revival, but it would be truly special
to see the original staging after decades of a concert version.

kingfan011
#408FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 10:20am

Why is Rockwell so bad in this?

morosco Profile Photo
morosco
#409FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 10:28am

It honestly gave me chills to see the original set recreated...

Me too. I also was wondering if there was any green screen stuff going on during some of those CHICAGO long shots. Especially the recreation of the intricate neon. I wonder if it was digitally added?

morosco Profile Photo
morosco
#410FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 10:34am

I also noticed the use of the hand mudra by the actress playing Chita in the choreography for "All That Jazz". I don't get the significance of the hand mudra in relation to Fosse. Reinking also used it in the choreography for the CHICAGO revival. Was this part of Bob Fosse's style? FOSSE/VERDON

BrodyFosse123 Profile Photo
BrodyFosse123
#411FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 10:43am

morosco said: "I also noticed the use of the hand mudra by the actress playing Chita in the choreography for "All That Jazz". I don't get the significance of the hand mudra in relation to Fosse. Reinking also used it in the choreography for the CHICAGO revival. Was this part of Bob Fosse's style?"

First, the actress playing Chita Rivera is actress Bianca Marroquin, who has been a regular Roxie Hart in the Broadway revival of CHICAGO for over a decade.  And yes, she played Chita with Chita Rivera's blessing.    

Yes, this finger/hand position is a regular gesture in Bob Fosse's work.  He has incorporated versions of this gesture since he started choreographing in the 1950s.  The iconic hand placement on his famous derby hat features this gesture.  


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SmoothLover
#412FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 11:25am

I thought the Nowadays episode moved a little slower than some of the rest of them. I also felt that the confrontation that happened while considering who was going to sing Nowadays was a bit overwrought. 

When Gwen returns to the show after the surgery and she is in her dressing room staring into the mirror what exactly was going on? Was she reflecting on her marriage, feeling alone or thinking about her daughter?

I thought Nichol's wig looked silly. The hair person on the series seems to have done it a disservice. Was Nichol the biological daughter of Bob Fosse? 

BrodyFosse123 Profile Photo
BrodyFosse123
#413FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 12:32pm

Was Nichol the biological daughter of Bob Fosse? 

Of course.  All this was clearly covered in Episode 7.  After considering adoption, Gwen eventually became pregnant with Nicole in 1963.  Bob Fosse's gift to Gwen for her return to the stage after her maternity hiatus was 1966's SWEET CHARITY.   

As with ALL things, Bob Fosse questioned if he was capable of conceiving Nicole due to what their doctor mentioned.  He always doubted everything about himself.  


Shh_413
#414FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 4:36pm

Michelle Williams should submit this episode for the Emmy Awards.

BWAY Baby2
#415FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 4:52pm

Interesting for me to read the reviews here- and it reinforces my general cynicism regarding reviews- because they are so subjective and individual- and tastes vary so dramatically. Anyway, I love this series- think Rockwell is doing a great job- think Michelle is Emmy worthy- and have not been bored by this series at all- in fact, love every second- find it to be an adult exploration- not only emotionally complex - but also delves into the psyches of super talented artists- which adds to my enjoyment of the show- the ambition, the need for approval, the need for love- interspersed with Broadway musical/ choreographic history- well, what more could you ask for? As for me- nothing- I love it and will miss it when it concludes Tuesday.

Luscious Profile Photo
Luscious
#416FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 5:05pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Interesting for me to read the reviews here- and it reinforces my general cynicism regarding reviews- because they are so subjective and individual- and tastes vary so dramatically. Anyway, I love this series- think Rockwell is doing a great job- think Michelle is Emmy worthy- and have not been bored by this series at all- in fact, love every second- find it to be an adult exploration- not only emotionally complex - but also delves into the psyches of super talented artists- which adds to my enjoyment of the show- the ambition, the need for approval, the need for love- interspersed with Broadway musical/ choreographic history- well, what more could you ask for? As for me- nothing- I love it and will miss it when it concludesTuesday."

I couldn't agree with you more, BWAY Baby! But, apparently, that's not what the majority of people on this board were looking for or expecting. They seem to have wanted a Broadway musical interpretation/recreation of the lives of Fosse and Verdon. Not the nitty gritty reality of their relationship or psyches. Maybe some of the babes will appreciate it more when they're older.

 


SmoothLover Profile Photo
SmoothLover
#417FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 5:11pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "Was Nichol the biological daughter of Bob Fosse?

Of course. All this was clearly covered in Episode 7. After considering adoption, Gwen eventually became pregnant with Nicole in 1963. Bob Fosse's gift to Gwen for her return to the stage after her maternity hiatus was 1966's SWEET CHARITY.

As with ALL things, Bob Fosse questioned if he was capable of conceiving Nicole due to what their doctor mentioned. He always doubted everything about himself.
"

 

I did not think it was "clearly" covered. I did not know for sure if Gwen was telling the truth when she told Bob he was the father.

 

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2
#418FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 8:00pm

It was pretty clear. Bob was just being his usual king of projection when he asked if he was really the father because he was unfaithful to Gwen (as shown in the 1960 flashback and then him asking Gwen to marry him and saying he wants a baby with her) to what we know from the second episode where he cheated on her so much that it became routine.

Also, I see no issues with the way Gwen is being portrayed. IMO, it shows her as human but ultimately a good person trying her best to be a good mother/wife/collaborator/actress/dancer. Just because the show portrays her in unflattering ways at times, like most people are, it's never from a place that is cruel or malicious. Plus, the "bad" things aren't that bad at all. The few people on social media who are commenting on this show every week just come out as loving Gwen Verdon here. I think it's awesome she gets to be a fully realized woman in this show and not some unbelievable saint whose reputation needs to be protected.

The way Fosse is being portrayed here is giving me the same feelings I had when I read that giant biography this show is based on. I think you may feel grosser about it than how it was portrayed in All That Jazz because it moves slightly away from Fosse's view of "gee, aren't I such a cad!" to "Geez...how did these women feel?" Which is part of the shifting narrative around these issues. I don't know why people are so surprised at this portrayal of Bob Fosse. If you read many interviews about him, read his bio, and understood what he did to people you'd come off with the same impression. Maybe they should have balanced it more with more people having fun with him and him enjoying himself? 

I for one am loving the series. Sure it could use more fun and dancing, but overall, this is the story they chose to tell and they wanted to not hold back. 

Updated On: 5/22/19 at 08:00 PM

Hairspray0901
#419FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 9:26pm

Count me in as someone who is LOVING this series. Admittedly, I didn't know much about Bob Fosse aside from the fact that he was a choreographer and I'm ashamed to mention... I had no idea who Gwen Verdon was. Needless to say - I find this entire series extremely fascinating. I know their story is being a bit embellished and dramatized for television at times, but I'm really enjoying it. I think Michelle Williams is giving the performance of a life time. This weeks episode has been my favorite thus far! Can't wait to see how they tie everything up next week.

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BrodyFosse123
#420FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 9:37pm

Can't wait to see how they tie everything up next week.

 

 

 


Owen22
#421FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/22/19 at 11:29pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "Was Nichol the biological daughter of Bob Fosse?

Of course. All this was clearly covered in Episode 7. After considering adoption, Gwen eventually became pregnant with Nicole in 1963. Bob Fosse's gift to Gwen for her return to the stage after her maternity hiatus was 1966's SWEET CHARITY.

As with ALL things, Bob Fosse questioned if he was capable of conceiving Nicole due to what their doctor mentioned. He always doubted everything about himself.
"

No. As a matter of fact it still ambiguous as to who fathered Nicole. The reprise of the Razzle Dazzle number shows that in the episode. It's actually a brilliant sleight-of-hand. At first the number is there to underline the scene in which they are trying to trick the guy from the adoption agency into giving them a child. Which isn't much of a trick. So I'm going, what is the purpose of the song? And then it's brought back at the end after that seemingly afterthought scene where Bob's sexual potency is called into question. As is his actual parentage of Nicole. Only Gwen knew for sure... And that is what the reprise of the Razzle Dazzle (with Gwen singing it) at the end of the episode represents. Did she or didn't she? Apparently even Nicole doesn't know.

 

ggersten Profile Photo
ggersten
#422FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/23/19 at 12:40am

I am alternately loving this series, being bored by it, and wondering what happened to Fosse's charm and charisma.  The show does nothing to explain Fosse's success in getting work, women and (a third "w"FOSSE/VERDON. I know this is supposed to be more about Fosse and Verdon, but the show doesn't really explain why Verdon is so attracted and committed to him - to the extent that they never divorced. 

I do wonder if they rushed the show.  Weren't they filming in January and February and March?  I know episodic television can be on a short time frame - but there was no urgent reason for this miniseries to be rushed through filming and editing to airing.  If it was rushed, then they likely shot the script with no one taking the time to stop and look to see if what they were producing was what they intended to produce.  Of course, maybe this show is what they intended - errors and tone included. I'm reminded of the sequence in All That Jazz where Joe Gideon says something like " Why is he mumbling like that? I'll tell you why. Cos I'm the dummy who let him mumble like that." And that's why Sam Rockwell's Fosse is the way he is.

 

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#423FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/23/19 at 1:46am

Luscious said: "I couldn't agree with you more, BWAY Baby! But, apparently, that's not what the majority of people on this board were looking for or expecting. They seem to have wanted a Broadway musical interpretation/recreationof the lives of Fosse and Verdon. Not the nitty gritty reality of their relationship or psyches. Maybe some of the babes will appreciate it more when they're older.

"

The posters who are complaining are hardly "babes". For the most part, they are people who remember the original and, in some cases, actually knew and worked with Fosse and Verdon.

Their complaints are not so much that this series isn't SMASH, but that it is a series about the working lives of two famous people that shows very little of the work they actually did. Last night offered TWO examples of Fosse's brilliance as he took two numbers that weren't working and made them highlights of CHICAGO. But we never really saw either number working as splendidly as it did in the original production.

"Nowadays", although it had been written as a solo finale for the bigger of the two stars, needed to be a duet because the truce reached by the two rivals (I'm talking about Roxie and Velma now, not the actresses) gives the audience a parody of the happy, romantic duets that close so many musicals, but without actually getting sappy about it. It is satirical and laugh-out-loud funny ("In 50 years or so"--CHICAGO opened within six months of the 50th anniversary of the play on which it was based--"it's gonna change, ya know" has only gotten funnier over the years) and yet also dramatically satisfying. We LOVE both performers; we want their characters to become friendly.

For whatever reason it was done, making Roxie into a puppet a la Charlie McCarthy in "Reached for the Gun" made it an electrifying, uproarious and wholly original show-stopping number. (I haven't seen the revival, but the original ended with Jerry Orbach drinking a glass of water while holding the last big note, a regular schtick in vaudeville and, by the 1970s, on TV.) Of course, last night we saw almost nothing of the revised number.

Still, THIS is the Bob Fosse who will always be a Broadway legend as a director as well as a choreographer. That he was also a wreck of a man with questionable personal habits is interesting, too, but without showing us the work, there's no real reason I should be interested in either of the series' title characters.

(It was a nice moment of variety when the African-American dancer told him, "No, you're the nicest choreographer in the business. You never yell or call us names." I can't vouch for the accuracy of that statement, but it did hint that maybe we haven't gotten the whole picture of his working life.)

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GavestonPS
#424FOSSE/VERDON
Posted: 5/23/19 at 2:05am

SmoothLover said: "I thought the Nowadays episode moved a little slower than some of the rest of them. I also felt that the confrontation that happened while considering who was going to sing Nowadays was a bit overwrought.

When Gwen returns to the show after the surgery and she is in her dressing room staring into the mirror what exactly was going on? Was she reflecting on her marriage, feeling alone or thinking about her daughter?

I thought Nichol's wig looked silly. The hair person on the series seems to have done it a disservice. Was Nichol the biological daughter of Bob Fosse?
"

It's a huge deal to take the headliner's 11 o'clock number and make her share it with a co-star. It was the rough equivalent of telling Ethel Merman (Ha!) that Robbins was going to add June and Louise to "Rose's Turn". The scene we were shown may have seemed "overwrought" as you put it, because it was a condensed version of what were probably several conversations, but that's how drama works.

Gwen Verdon was probably feeling a lot of things when she returned after vocal surgery and rest, but foremost among them was that she had been completely upstaged in what was supposed to be her "return" to Broadway after a decade of trying in "her" show, especially created for her by the hottest director in the business. I didn't live in NYC at the time, but I remember vividly the frenzy that resulted as word-of-mouth spread that one of the biggest movie stars in the world at the time was appearing live for a few weeks in CHICAGO. There was not only a rush at the box office, but Broadway people talked of little else (except A CHORUS LINE) even after Minnelli had finished her six-week run. "The new Gwen Verdon show" became one more triumph for Liza, at least among the Broadway community. I suspect Verdon never quite felt the same sense of "ownership" again, though of course she was a total pro and continued to bring in business on Broadway and on tour. (I saw her many times!)

Yeah, about the actress playing Nichol. My husband thought she looked like a young man in drag.

Updated On: 5/23/19 at 02:05 AM