Chad Kimball- Page 12

[Owen22]

theatreguy12 said: "On a theater board I won't get any "likes" for this opinion. But it's what it was. I call it the way I see it. And both sides of the aisle have their issues". 

Well...aren't YOU special? 

It's almost as if you ignored every comment on this discussion (and every other discussion on this board when it comes to right wing vs left wing) as most everyone says THE EXACT SAME THING!!!



"

 

[Sutton Ross]

He wrote 19 paragraphs. IMAGINE.

[CATSNYrevival]

There's an easy solution to all of this. Just listen to the London cast recording of Memphis instead.

[Sutton Ross]

Lolz

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

theatreguy12 said: "ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "I never find that the act abortion is the ONLY thing you disagree with with a person. It usually comes with other attitudes as well. I think most people who are vehemently pro-choice are pro-choice because they came to that position after tons of research into the origins of abortion bans, they see reproductive rights as a part of a larger picture of women's rights, and are well-versed in how the history of western civilization has all been about controlling women's reproduction and valuing women based on their reproductive organs. So with that background, you'd find that anti-abortion folks at least have a totally different perspective/perception (or haven't thought about it) on the history of women, women's rights, and reproductive rights. I haven't even touched upon the class/race differences as well. IMO, the difference between a person who is pro-choice and anti-choice is really down to the core so it's not very simple to just think of it as one issue. It's actually very many issues in which they'll disagree with."

That all may sound great on paper, and very understanding toward women, and "history" and "western civilization,"but at the crux of it for those who are pro-life.....it's a life inside of that woman. Pure and simple. "History" and "western civilization" and how it pertains to women is irrelevant when it comes to the here and now, and the decision to end a life that has begun inside of her. Unfortunately thefact that it is a life has been usurped and clouded by the word "choice" to somehow make the procedure more palatable.And to those who see that as a life inside the woman, there is no "choice" involved. You can't just end a life, born or not yet born,because it's an inconvenience. It's a pretty big issue, and understandable why people make it a big part of their voting decision.'

As for your other post, that is your perspective. Your point of view based on your own belief system.

You say this country has moved further right. No, it hasn't. Look at the last 4 elections. BO....BO....HC (who didn't win the electoral college but still took the popular vote), and JB. Add to that a MSM that is largely liberal. If you want the other point of view you have to go searching for it, because even Fox News has turned a corner in many ways. In addition, the reason we have DT in the first place is because of the RINO factor in DC. RINOs being Republicans who conservativesvoted for but didn't come through, caved during the previous administration, and seemed more centrist (at best) than "right." A lot of conservatives were done with them and, though a risk, cast a vote for DT thinking he might shake things up a bit. So when you also haveRepublican who aren't towing a conservative load as they said they would, this country actually leans more left.

As for seeing yourself asthediplomatic friend, the bigger person, who put up with your friends who had views that differed from yours and became so obnoxious about it...which has now pushed you further left.....join the club. The exact opposite happened with me. Though I haven't moved further right. I'm still the same person, I just don't see those friends as much anymore. They alwayshad differing opinions from mine. But we respected each other's differences. It was all great. They got exceedingly more pushy though the longer time went on too....to the point where we would go our separate ways. I let it roll too for some time.....but then it wasn't worth it anymore. I was the one quietlyputting up with it, being flexible, letting it roll....and that's not a friendship. So what you're describing happens both ways. You just see it as especially bad because it happened to you....so everyone on the other side of the aisle must be just like that, while everyone on your side of the aisle is the put upon one.

Sorry to hearthat your racist and sexist friends just got worse over time. It's understandable why someone wouldn't want to be around that toxicity.

But those two terms, "racism" and "sexism" bring to mind a situation I had at a party, some 10 or 11 years ago. The small group with whom I was conversing got onto politics. BO came up. I had the question directed to me about being a BO supporter. I admitted that no, I actually didn't vote for him. Some guy who I didn't even know asked if it had to do with the color of his skin. I just looked at him incredulously, not only because he didn't even know me, butconsidering who I am, and my past, his comment was so far from left field all I could do was look at him like what in the hell are you talking about? Who are you? I just politelytold him no. I didn't vote for him because I knew very little about him. And what I did know was that hehad little experience to base any sort of vote on, especially considering it was for arguably the most powerful position in the world.

And for the record, I didn't vote for DT either. I didn't like the way he communicated his message andwhat research I did do on him found out he has supported both sides of the aisle in his past....so I had no idea what the guy stood for.

As for BO though, the irony with regard to what that dude at the party said,is my ex worked in the GWB administration and I had the honor of meeting Condi Rice on a couple of occasions. I was so taken by her. I even asked my friend ifshe was ever going to run for president. He said, oh no.....not really an aspiration. I was thinking too bad.

Did I bring that up to his guy at the party?No. It would have called him out on his nonsense (and proved I wasn't a sexist either), but I knew he would just try to save face by accusing me of trying to justify that I wasn't a racist. Not at all.The reality was if you call me an unjustified name, especially if you're someone I don't even know, I'm not going to let that one roll. He started it, with an ignorant comment. Certainly bringing it up would have showed him up even more, but it wasn't worth it. I had nothing to prove to someone like that.

But sadly that is not an isolated incident. If you didn't vote for or support BO it was because you were a racist. You heard that for eight years. Even now. Doesn't matter that you might like Condi Rice, or pullthe level for Ben Carson, think Clarence Thomas is a good justice, votefor Tim Scott, agree with Candace Owens, Walter Williams or Larry Elder, if you didn't agree with BO you were just somehow labeled.

If there is a white poster on here who doesn't like Larry Elder, or Ben Carson, do I consider him or hera racist? No. Just because a white Democrat doesn't like someone like Tim Scott doesn't mean they are a racist. Now, if a Democrat calls a black conservative hateful names, like many do, you have to wonder. But I don't automatically go there with that assumption. I give you the benefit of the doubt and figure it's just a political disagreement.

That all being said, is there racism in this country? Yes, there are definitely racists in this country. And sadly there always will be. Racists will exist everywhere on this planet. My old violin teacher who moved here from Poland ten years ago says it's a problem in Europe too. Very judgmental people in Europe. Why? Because we're dealing with human beings. If your friends were truly saying racist and sexist things, that's a problem. I wouldn't hang around with that type either.

As for rightwing attempts at taking human rights issues to "ghastly" levels? Well, there are those on the right who would say the same about the other side of the aisle. First off, that pesky little issue of abortion. There are those who would question how a party that purportedly stands for human rights would stand by and support that. Especially when you consider what late term abortions look like. And even more when you look at how many black babies are aborted. Pointing the finger athow unjust the "right" is when it comes to human and race-related rights doesn't give us the entire picture. You point a finger at someone, you have three pointing back at you. There will be those who question the consequences of votes on the left too.

Conservatives will also questioncandidates on the left who take money from countries that treat gays and women like second class citizens, yet finger point at all the "atrocities" of those on the right when it comes to human rights. Now, is the right side of the aislefree from their own issues with this topic? No. And I have problems with it too. But for the left to make it about the right without seeing their own foibles is pretty disingenuous.

And interesting to see more and more black conservatives stepping up and calling out the Democrats on their policies that they see as hindering the upward movement of black citizens. 'Give us your vote and we'll take care of you.' That's how they see it. And they find it insulting. Because being taken care ofonly means enabling in their views. And enabling doesn't lead to autonomy and independence. And their conditions don't get any better.

I have a conservative black friend and this drives him crazy. He was raised by religious, conservative parents who had their challenges growing up, and were raised byparents (his grandparents)who looked to government resources for help when they needed it, but it was in no way going to be a lifestyle. They became successful, passed on that character to his parents, and this is why it really bothers my friendto see what happens when people are enabled and not empowered or encouraged. Does he believe racism exists? Of course he does. And he knows he has probably had people judge him over the color of his skin. But he chalks that up to ignorance and moves on. I find him truly amazing. I'm not sure I could have that kind of forgiveness, but that's just who he is.

So again, it's all about personal perspective. The prism through which you see the world is not how everyone sees it. And not everything you see that is kind and good about yourself, and your party, and your political representatives always lives up to that ideal you have of your party. There would be others who disagree.

Conservatives, Republicans, the "right" have their issues. And I have a real problem with those issues and will not defend them when they occur. But to pretend the other side is free from its own issues is again disingenuous.

On a theater board I won't get any "likes" for this opinion. But it's what it was. I call it the way I see it. And both sides of the aisle have their issues."

Since you were kind enough to respond to my post with a long one, I will show you respect by letting you know I've read everything you wrote. I won't respond point-by-point because this isn't a debate nor am I here to just disagree with you. I just want to comment on certain things that piqued my interests.

Your point about abortion ending a life did not contradict my point at all. In fact, I think you made it. Those who are pro-choice are pro-choice because they think about the history of women's rights, have a perspective of the historical treatment of women as chattel to only reproduce to make male heirs for property rights, AND how abortion wasn't this hot-button issue until the 19th century and is a continuation of controlling women's right to their own reproductive system. If men could get abortions, you know this wouldn't be a controversial topic at all as it'd be seen as a regular procedure where only the most staunch Catholics are against (a dying breed). Those who only see it as a death/life thing don't even think about any of that or the motivations behind laws nor the inequities, or enforcement (it won't kill abortion, it'll only kill access to abortion for the most vulnerable populations...those with money and status will always be able to get one). That was my point in the first place. If you only want to talk about "killing" a fetus, then think about all the state-sanctioned or legal ways we kill people that you are ok with. And I'm not even talking about the death penalty. Think about how this one issue with death that overly burdens women more than men has become such an issue. If you disagree or you have a different perspective, then it's clear abortion is not a single-issue. You disagree with the entire concept of the women's movement and reproductive rights. That's no small thing. It seeps into other attitudes where there will be disagreement.

As for Barack Obama (it took me a while to understand who BO was until I read more of your paragraph), you have to understand. Not every criticism of Obama should be assumed that someone is racist. I myself have tons of criticisms of Obama and I call him Republican-lite. His deportation record and views on immigration plus his liberal use of drones made me think he adopted rightwing hawkish attitudes. BO, as you call him, was always a moderate to me. He was a representative of the "new" and "palatable" Democratic Party in the post-Nixon/Reagan era where they have to adopt serious hawkish and rightwing talking points to win votes. Obama couldn't be open about supporting LGBTQ marriage in his first go around because we live in rightwing America. 

Now regarding how "hurt" you were about being called a racist, maybe it's my POV as a gay POC (Southeast Asian-American) from New Orleans (a blue-ish enclave in a deep red state), you have you to understand, a lot of what surrounded Obama was extremely racist. It got to the point where real criticisms got swallowed by the blatant and explicit racism directed towards him. The "you lie!" yell which obviously stemmed from white men from the tea party who could not take the fact that their president and thus the chief executive of this country was black, the birtherism trying to delegitimize him because of his skin color (to deny that's the case is willful ignorance at best), that entire Tea Party that came out of it, the Trump campaign that came out of it, the rise of white supremacy, the tiki torches rallies, the cries for whites to reproduce more and to stop immigration, the changing of the definition of the 14th Amendment so we no longer have birthright citizenship, the denial of racism, thinking black lives matter means white lives don't (a very cynical and well-thought out counter that racists or people with no problem with racism fell for), etc. The great celebration of Trump as a return to making "America Great Again" which was a code word for back to white supremacist times and where minorities learned to shut up if they knew what was good for them and thinking he was their lord and savior and the cult-like devotion to him with that race-based tribalism....

It all did not come out of nowhere. Many Obama supporters and POC knew racism was ramped up with his election and many were hyper sensitive to it. And instead of reacting as if asking if you were a racist was on the level of being targeted for racism, maybe both sides should reflect and wonder how are they communicating.

IMO, we're all guilty of racial (and other) biases, prejudices, and blindspots. Instead of getting defensive, we should reflect and see how we can be better. Or as Melania Trump says, "Be Best". 

As for your use of black politicians on the right and how it proves you're not racist, there goes into another topic...people's understanding of racism. If two people (like me and theatreguy) can't come to an understanding of how deeply rooted racism is and how it's beyond just supporting someone because of their skin color but also what attitudes and policies they harbor and if there's possible appeasement, then it's clear how complicated and complex the race issue is and so that in of itself is also not a "single" issue but multiple issues of how we see this country, the history of this country, impact on policies, whether there are institutional set-ups that purposefully perpetuate racism (and having a few black people in your party won't get rid of the stigma that you support racism if your party supports policies that do perpetuate racism). If there are disagreements there, then there are just core values that won't mesh.

Also, pointing out black politicians is very "I have friends who are black". It doesn't work with Blacks and POC who dealt with that sort of line all of their lives who are the type to disagree with you on politics.

Now let's go to your actual use of "I have a black friend". Believe me, I know black conservatives too. And conservative Asian-Americans and conservative Latinos, etc. Goes back to my point of how we've shifted to the right big time. Also, religion plays a huge role, but also the con of meritocracy and bootstrapping and the way the left is often villainized by those using "common sense" language. That said, there have always been conservatives of all backgrounds, just like there are liberals/progressives of all backgrounds. There's a rising black progressive movement also calling the Democratic Party out for being the same as the Republican Party and pushing neo-liberal agendas that hurt the working class. There are also those within that same group that disagree with them and calling on them to stop calling it neo-liberal agendas when they're really neo-conservative ones. What's my point in all of this? The point is we can all point out to examples that fit our narrative.

So it all goes back to how this is a very personal thing and if one wants to cancel someone like Kimball because they find that at the core of his being, he's perpetuating attitudes that are harming society or people in some way, then let them. This is a theatre board, and it's not like people cancel Broadway actors willy-nilly here. They know who these people are and most likely enjoyed their work in the past (or not considering some posts about his strange performances in Memphis). People should dictate to other people they are canceling someone for bad reasons because you honestly don't know how deep their reasons go.

[yankeefan7]

"There's an easy solution to all of this. Just listen to the London cast recording of Memphis instead."

Just curious, did you like Adam Pascal in the role of Huey? Was he better than Killian Donnelly who played the role on the West End.

[Islander_fan]

yankeefan7 said: ""There's an easy solution to all of this. Just listen to the London cast recording of Memphis instead."

Just curious, did you like Adam Pascal in the role of Huey? Was he better than Killian Donnelly who played the role on the West End."

Just to add my opinion, yes. I saw Donnelly in the role in London and pascal on Broadway. The big difference is that Donnelly can act, Pascal can not

[yankeefan7]

"Just to add my opinion, yes. I saw Donnelly in the role in London and pascal on Broadway. The big difference is that Donnelly can act, Pascal can not"

Thanks for your opinion, makes me wish I could have seen Donnelly. (I saw Chad Kimbal in Memphis), BTW - Islanders looked very good last season and hope they can take it a couple of steps further and win the Cup again. Are you excited about the new arena being built for them?