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re: Rent vs. Wicked vs Phantom of the Opera

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ThankstoPhantom
Broadway Legend
joined:10/13/05
I've been a phan since long before that awful film. But I also LOVE Sondheim and R&H and Cole Porter...I'm a brancher...

Many phans are just phans, not necessarily fans of musical theatre. But I'm a musical theatre fan who happens to be a phan. That's why I don't believe in generalizing.
How to properly use its/it's: Its is the possessive. It's is the contraction for it is...
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Wanderingchild5
Broadway Star
joined:11/5/05
1. Phantom
2. RENT
3. Wicked
I'm Mary ( : I <33 Anthony rapp and Kristoffer Cusick!
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broadwayfreak2
Understudy
joined:8/21/06
well to me and my friend and EVERYONE i knwo practically
everyone that hears Wicked loves it ..
for me all of them are awesome .
there all three different kinds of musicals
so i cant really say which could be favorite
Willy Wonka: And Charlie, don't forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he'd ever wished for. Charlie What happened? Willy Wonka He lived happily ever after ( favorite qoutee )
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The Stars R Aligned
Understudy
joined:9/3/06
well i have seen all 3 shows

im sorry if i do upset Phantom fans, but it wasnt really my thing
it was good, but im not into that
i lean more into the shows that are more like Wicked
Rent was good too.
so my list is

1. Wicked
2. Rent
3. Phantom
"Let me see some smiles... Not that phony 'sell-smile.' I want to see that 'I-love-to-dance-smile.'"-Larry, A Chorus Line My bumper sticker in 2100-DISCO STILL CONFUSES ME!!!! Oh by the way, Mr. Green called, he said "Get a CLUE!" Megan-And what about that wierd purple thing on happy meals Me-Grimmace or whatever the heck his name is. Megan-Yeah Me-What is he supposed to be anyways? Megan- I dont know I always thought he was Ronald McDonald's big stupid purple pet or the Hamburgler's hairball
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alliez92092
Broadway Legend
joined:2/11/06
I, too, am sick of categotizing the fans. Why must we fight over who's a true phan, who's a Renthead, who's a true lover of Wicked, and then the fangirls? The thing that matters is that people are passionate about something. It can get annoying, yes, but they all have passions. And that is the most important thing.
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spiderdj82
Broadway Legend
joined:6/24/04
"Phantom, and all BritishAndrew Lloyd Webber musical fans, do not care for Rodgers and Hammerstein, Sondheim, Kander and Ebb among others."

That is the biggest piece of crap I have read on this board in a very long time! It's just like saying that all Sondheim fans are pretentious theatre bitches who like nothing else but Sondheim. And just for the record, I own all but two Rodgers and Hammerstein shows (including the movie soundtrack to "State Fair"), I own all but two or three Sondheim scores, and Cabaret & Chicago are among my favorite musicals. Any other generalizations you would like to do today?
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
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spiderdj82
Broadway Legend
joined:6/24/04
Oh, and OpenDoors . . . I am 23 years old. There goes your argument right there.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
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jv92
Broadway Legend
joined:11/4/05
ThankstoPhantom-
I appologize for calling "phans" utter morons. Of course, there are some that just love the show as well as other pieces of musical theater that are halfway decent. The fans that do not listen to other shows, see other shows or like other shows other than Phantom are the utter morons. I also just hate the show, so anyone that gives it business is stupid. Even me. I wish I hadn't spent those forty bucks.
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ThankstoPhantom
Broadway Legend
joined:10/13/05
Apology accepted...I was just upset that you generalized.

I agree to disagree with you, though, as I feel some phans are just that. I am a phan, but that's because it's near and dear to my heart, while also I explore so many different kinds of theatrical expressions at once...
How to properly use its/it's: Its is the possessive. It's is the contraction for it is...
MCfan2
Broadway Star
joined:4/29/06
Having a bad day, jv92?? You sound pretty unhappy with humanity in general.
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winston89
Broadway Legend
joined:6/18/06
I know that there are some people that stay away from a show such as Wicked. This is because they cannot stand the annoying 12 year old girls running around the theatre. Now, I don' let these things bother me. But, I can see how it would bother some people. I don't like how people say that a lot of RENTheads don't branch outt into other musicals. The reason that this is, is because many people who are now RENTheads just didn't like musical theatre in general till they saw RENT. I have ran into several people at the show that felt fit into this catagory. Now, I am a RENThead and I have seen the show over a dozen times. Now, I go alone so I mostly talk to members of the cast after the show who know who I am and house staff who know who I am as well. But, there are a lot of really ANNOYING fans that go on and on and on about one particular actor or another to the point where it is just obserd.

And to the person who said that the show is dated. It can't be dated. It is only ten years old and the stuff that it talks about is just as strong as it was then. Most people say its dated cus of the whole AIDS thing. But, People stil have and whatnot.

Wicked is great I have seen that show five times. I would see it another five times as well. I can see why its worth the hype.

Now onto phantom where I can really have fun. I am a person who easilly says what they think. I think phantom is a load of crap. Webber sucks as a composer. the only discussion I have gotten into with a "fan" (Note: I am not spelling fan with a 'PH' because there is only one group that deserves to have their name spelled that way and that is Phish R.I.P) is that I think it sucks and Webber can't write a good score to save his life. Being that I have never gotten into or heard a stupid discussion from a phantom fan I think that phantom fans are the easiest to deal with. Second are RENTheads because a lot of them are just nice people in general. The worst fans to deal with are wicked fans because they are all annoying 12 year old girls running around.
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear" Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
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Raviolisun
Broadway Legend
joined:8/22/06
I mean, definitely it has to be Wicked fans, but it really is not fair to generalize. I mean, some of us like Wicked, and we are actually fans of lots of other musical theater. Sure, an overwhelming amount of Wicked fans are screaming young girls, but really, you can love other theater and be a mature person, and still be entertained by this show.

Sorry about the rant.
One time, Patti LuPone punched me in the face...


It was awesome.
- theaterkid1015
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Becoz_i_knew_you21
Broadway Legend
joined:4/29/06
Raviolisun,I completely agree with your post. I mean I can't say I like Wicked without people thinking, I think Wicked is the best musical ever. I love Sondheimn Guettel, Michael John Michael John LaChiusa, and Jason Robert Brown. Basically I like just about everything. I wish people would just stop assuming about anyone who like Wicked, Rent, Or Phantom. I like all these shows but, am not a "hardcore" fan to any of them.
Updated On: 9/13/06 at 11:29 PM
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SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend
joined:7/27/05
Well, when I saw the RENT tour there were people in the front row who were standing up and singing. In fact, in an interview Lea Salonga said that she couldn't really judge RENT because it was so hard to hear the music with the rowdy audience. I know someone who saw people standing up on the chairs during RENT. From my experience, a lot of the fans treat it like a concert.

Of course, that was before Wicked. Maybe now RENTheads have calmed down. But when I saw the movie it was the first showing, and everyone besides me--mostly teenagers, may I say--was acting in a similar fashion: singing along, dancing, calling out, etc.

As for Phans, it depends. While I hate the show, I do love the novel so I know and am friends with quite a lot of Phans; I was actually surprised by how most admit that it's not a very good score, and it has awful lyrics, but they like it anyway. And I'm fine with that. What exasperates me about Phans is, as many have said, a great deal of them refuse to acknowledge any other show out there. Of course, eventually they usually do. From experience, I've found that they usually move onto another more mainstream one, like Les Mis. And, well, I think a lot of us started out with Les Mis, even though it may have been much earlier (for me, it was in the first grade, for instance.) So we can't really roll our eyes--tempting though it may be--if they're trying to broaden their musical horizons.

As for during the show, when I saw Phantom I had no trouble with the audience. Online is probably where I've gotten more of a negative experience with them. But, well, there are plenty of phans who are intelligent and have diverse taste in musicals. A lot make fun of ALW, especially after he approved the casting of Emmy Rossum and Gerard Butler.

Honestly, I'd say that the scariest group can be the Sondheim fans. They're usually intelligent, yes, but they can also be quite intimidating and snobby. If you dare to say that you dislike one Sondheim show, quite a few will just go "oh, you didn't understand it." They can accept no flaws about him.

Then again, I guess I'm sort of similar about Jason Robert Brown. We all have our fangirlish/boyish tendencies.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
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KQuill
Broadway Star
joined:6/4/06
3-Rent
2-Wicked
1-Phantom

Being a longtime phan, and i'm only 18, it is difficult to see Phantom getting trashed on here all the time. But we choose to grin and bare it, not dignifying the unsupported bashing of the show that we see so frequently.

I STRONGLY disagree with the notion that Phantom is not a "broadway musical".

-Firstly, the cast of Phantom is mostly made up of broadway performers. In fact, they prefer to hire broadway people because they are more durable for all 8 shows per week than opera people. In the current cast, only three members are opera singers, and two of them have other BROADWAY credits. The third came straight out of college.

-Secondly, many serious phans are certainly into many other kinds of shows and to say that we are closed minded to them is ridiculous.
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winston89
Broadway Legend
joined:6/18/06
I can understand where Lea Salonga is comming from. When I go see it on broadway people cheer like a rock concert. But like at a rock concert they always cheer at certin points. For example, during the start of out tonight everyone goes nuts. But what most people forget is that RENT is one of the only shows on broadway where it's ok to treat it like a rock concert. Most people have gotten int RENT because they don't like the typical musical and they like RENT because it is the exact oppisite of an average Broadway musical.


The RENTheads mostly know how to keep it approprate during the show. It's ok to cheer at the beginning of the show when everyone comes out and at the start of some songs. But they ususally cheer and it dies down and the show goes on. I have never heard anyone sing along while the show was going. I have and have seen other people mouth the words but that is ok. Also, RENT has the feel of a rock concert and uses real rock music not the sugar coated rock and roll you would hear from a show like Tommy or ASU
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear" Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
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WickedRentEder
Stand-by
joined:12/16/05
I just think the demographic for all shows is different. You see more old biddies getting in line for Phantom and more teeny boppers in line for Rent & Wicked. Right now, I'd say Wicked fans are the most insane (b/c it's the 'hot' show mainly) but Rent fans are not too far behind.

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tinadoll
Swing
joined:9/14/06
I am going to give my own perseptive on this so bare with me


I have seen all three and i must say each of their fan bases are different

I will start with the Wicked fans. I have seen the show. The production is phenominal. The songs are ok. They also have a really screwed up discount ticket system. And they are kinda stuck up at the theatre. I would be too if i have to deal with the fans. Everytime i am there its the same crowd. Pre teen and teen girls from the Midwest. Thats all i see. They show is not even that memorable.

Then there are the RENT fans. Either teen gay kids or stuck up yuppies/hippies who go to NYU. The music sucks and there is only one set.Even though I don't pay full price,if i was to pay full price it would be a rip off. Like the Drousy Chapeorne. Thats another story.Don't even get me started about RENT the movie. Did i mention the stars are stuck up? I had to deliver tickets to Anthony Rapp once, he was a major douche bag. And this is after i saw the show. I wasn't impressed.

I am a Phantom "Phan" as you can see by the avatar i have. But i have also enjoyed many many other Broadway shows including Cabaret,The Wedding Singer,1776, Sweeny Todd ETC. I love Rogers and Hammerstein as well as Candor and Ebb,So that accusation is actually non existent with me. I have dealt with a lot of Phans- Very normal and nice bunch of ladies. That doesn't mean there aren't wackos. Some follow certial actors who have played the role with a passion. An example of this is the "Panarophiles" Who follow former phantom Hugh Panaro. I have met and worked for productions he has been in,he is a nice fellow and he was very good in the role of the Phantom. But his "fans" tick me off. They are obsessive and don't know when to quit.I even know the keep giving stupid gifts.You wouldn't believe the stuff i had to throw out that they brought him. He is a grown man. Quit bringing him flowers and stuffed animals. Can you believe they have the nerve to constantly enter the Equity and pester people so the Lestat soundtrack can come out
Um no sorry not happening. Unless you want to hear Eltons version. But whatever i have the bootleg.

Thats actually my biggest problem with the Rent/Wicked fans ,as well as any "devoted" fans.Its not just about just one show. And quit acting like snobs




Updated On: 9/14/06 at 02:18 PM
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KQuill
Broadway Star
joined:6/4/06
haha oh yeah the Panarophiles. I thought it was interesting how they pronounced themselves as Hugh's "fan club", but with no real way of getting into it...just to be one of their friends I guess. Anyways, at first I found it annoying that I could not be part of Hugh's fan club, but then I realized that I don't really want to be lumped in with them...
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SDav 10495
Broadway Star
joined:7/21/06
I STRONGLY disagree with the notion that Phantom is not a "broadway musical".

That's not exactly what I meant when I said Phantom isn't really a "Broadway" show. Believe me, I'm not out to get Phantom.

First off, let me get this off my chest--I think it's my first time saying it on BWW--although I love many other shows by many other composers, and although I recognize that Phantom is nowhere near the be all and end all of theatre, it is (admittedly mostly for sentimental purposes) my favorite musical of all time. It's turned out to be the one thing I can come back to over and over again, even after year-long stretches of not listening to the music. Although I understand where many of the show's (and ALW's) detractors come from, it frustrates me to see Phantom denounced the way it is by the "elite", many of whom fail to see the show's artistic strengths simply because they don't want to. There. I said it.

Second, back to the comment at hand, what I meant was that it's not a show in the typical "Broadway" style--meaning it's not the brass-woodwind-percussion all-American "jazz hands" song and dance show that most associate with the word "musical". I know that the people in the show are Broadway actors--that would be stupid of me to refute seeing as they're on Broadway, wouldn't it?--but they're mostly not "Broadway people". By that I mean that most people in the show are from a more classical background than from a traditional musical theatre background--and that's also something that would be stupid to refute, because they have to be classically trained to sing the score properly (please forget the foul-up that was the movie casting). I put "Broadway" in quotation marks to denote that I meant it in the stylistic and the cultural sense--I was not implying anything derogatory about the "status" of the show or its actors. I was merely commenting on Phantom's style, and I certainly didn't mean any disrespect.
"If there is going to be a restoration fee, there should also be a Renaissance fee, a Middle Ages fee and a Dark Ages fee. Someone must have men in the back room making up names, euphemisms for profit." (Emanuel Azenberg)
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ThankstoPhantom
Broadway Legend
joined:10/13/05
SDAV...I'm a phan for the exact reason for you loving it so much...Ic an go on for a LONG time without listening to it, but will always love it...I only consider myself a phan because it's so sentimental and special to me. I'll never tire of it, despite having had many other shows find me to be their fans...
How to properly use its/it's: Its is the possessive. It's is the contraction for it is...
actor
Broadway Legend
joined:9/14/06
I think that Wicked fans are definitely the craziest. This is because it is a show aimed at youth and young adults. I think it is no longer worthy of being called a "new musical" but more of a "hit musical". I'm not so sure it will ever be considered a classic however simply because of the rabid fans. Some people go way over the top and are really obsessed. They have dramatic fights and arguments over who is a better Elphaba and Glinda. They pay thousands of dollars for tickets to see it 25 times. Wicked is all they ever think about. The list goes on. My main point is that Wicked is a craze that will burn out quickly because of the fact that it is now on tour, in Chicago, in NYC, in the UK, and is opening all over the world. Wicked's little "empire" will soon collapse when fans grow out of Wicked and realize there are better things in life than the line "So if you care to find me" when Elphaba goes up the lift.

Second comes the Rent fans. Rent is a show that never really had rabid fans simply because of the more mature concepts. Some people really like the show simply because it's a fantastic show. No one really is obsessed with it. No one is really obsessed with one line and will sell their soul just to be a lead character in it. Rent fans are more tame and therefore Rent will run for a long time.

Third comes Phantom fans. Everyone mature enough to truly appreciate musical theatre likes Phantom (for the most part -- no offense to those who don't like it). The Phantom of the Opera is a fabulous show that will run forever and will always attract audiences of all ages. However, no one really is obsessed with Phantom because it is a very mature musical. There are no loud bangs where someone comes flying across the stage and up through a trap door. There are no scenes where someone lifts off the ground and belts at the top of their lungs. Because Phantom is more tame, it bores most young people and therefore does not have rabid fans.

That's my opinion.
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AngelDumottSchunard
Swing
joined:8/20/06
1. RENT
2. RENT
3. RENT
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vbplayer
Broadway Legend
joined:3/2/05
"It's only because a lot of the Rent fans are older now."

"Their freakiness has been subdued by Father Time. Soon, they'll all be "Rent Curmudgeons." Passive, bitchy... and generally calm."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And to this "dear" poster.......you will one day fall into this unfortunately titled category. Prepare for it. It's creeping up on you too........get ready for it. It can't be stopped.

And for the record, I can't stand "Rent".

Have a nice day.
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." -- Author Unknown
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Copeman63
Broadway Star
joined:7/18/03
If it matters, Phantom probably would win, because it's fans are still interested enough to read this page, and not to be bothered with growing pubic hair.
If Lincoln were alive today, do you think he'd be pleased with his tunnel?
Fosse76
Broadway Legend
joined:3/21/05
"I just think the demographic for all shows is different. You see more old biddies getting in line for Phantom and more teeny boppers in line for Rent & Wicked."

No, you don't. According to polling and on-site surveys, Wicked's audience is the average for all Broadway shows...i.e., the average age was in the late fories. While its fanbase may skew younger, the theater-audience makeup is typical of any standard Broadway show. The same goes for RENT. I would say that Wicked's and RENT's fanbase is passionate and loud, but Phantom's borders on psychotic. I was a phan for a few years in college, and let me tell you these people are nuts. If you dare to think the Phantom is mean or evil, they hire a hit man to silence you. If you dare to say you like Raul, they shun you. I can go on and on. But at least neither RENT nor Wicked have a had a fan legally change their name to match the name of the character (Christine Daae). They are just all out lunatics. I read a few message boards before the movie came out and nothing that was being done would please them. Lunatics!

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