Schwartz vs. Sondheim

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 8:56pm

Alright, I think I already know the answer to this question but...

Who do you prefer and why?

I like Schwartz because he has better melodies in my opinion, and his shows mean more to me than Sondheim's.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:04pm

It's like comparing Rainforest Cafe to Tavern on the Green.

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:06pm

Pray tell, why?
Updated On: 4/18/06 at 09:06 PM

[Horton]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:08pm

Because Sondheim is brilliant, yes brilliant, and Schwartz is well. Well he has never won a Tony for a reason!

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:11pm

Anyone who doesn't know the difference between pray and prey already has questionable intelligence...

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:12pm

Sondheim:

Green finch, and linnet bird,
Nightingale, blackbird,
How is it you sing?
How can you jubilate
sitting in cages
never taking wing?
Outside the sky waits
beckoning!
Beckoning!
Just beyond the bars...
How can you remain
staring at the rain
maddened by the stars?

Schwartz:

I hear she has an extra eye
That always remains awake
I hear that she can shed her skin
As easily as a snake!
I hear some rebel Animals
Are giving her food and shelter!
I hear her soul is so unclean
Pure water can melt her!

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:14pm

Yea, there isn't really a comparison... I don't think either composer would want to be compared to the other one.

kmc

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:17pm

I do have to say (despite my last post) too much of Schwartz's reputation lately has been based entirely on Wicked. Let's not forget that Schwartz also wrote Pippin, Godspell, The Baker's Wife, Children of Eden, and those Disney films -- all of which have some pretty great stuff in them. Comparable to Sondheim? No, but I don't think we need to bash Schwartz either to make the point that Sondheim is superior.

[Fabrizio2]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:17pm

FOA couldn't have said it better.

I think Sondheim puts more thought into his music. He tries to break traditions and makes it different, and does it sucessfully. Look at "Company"...."Another Hundred People" to be more exact, if you listen to those notes compared to something like Defying Gravity or...Popular....I mean there is just no comparison.

Besides the only song he has written that I liked is No Good Deed, and that is for one little part where she sings "One question haunts and hurts..too much too much to mention"

I mean what wicked is now is just a pipe dream for ****ty belters all over the world.

Compare the QUALITY of these shows...

Sweeney Todd, A Little Night Music, West Side Story

compared to shows like this.

Wicked, Captain Louie...
Updated On: 4/18/06 at 09:17 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:17pm

If you ask me, the only Schwartz songs even CLOSE to Sondheim caliber are "Meadowlark" and "Lion Tamer."

And "West End Avenue" cancels out "Lion Tamer" IMO. e_e

... and the entire score/libretto of Wicked cancels out "Meadowlark."

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:19pm

I think that Schwartz is fine musically, but the lyrics of his shows are downright painful a lot of times. Sondheim is for sure the far, far superior lyricist.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:20pm

Well, Fabrizio...WICKED and CAPTAIN LOUIE are his least challenging as far as lyrics go. He is responsible for GODSPELL and PIPPIN which are two wonderful shows. Still, not Sondheim calibur.

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:22pm

See, since you are obviously biased towards Sondheim, it is easy for you to just take his good lyrics and compare them to some of Schwartz's worst.

Also, I think we have established that Sondheim's lyrics are good. I doubt his ability to write a melody, most of his music just seems bland and runs together.

Let me also point out that Schwartz is not just Wicked. You assume that because he wrote Wicked that it's the only show he can be associated with. Pippin is much better than West Side, and Children of Eden is a work of art.
Updated On: 6/14/06 at 09:22 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:24pm

"Pippin blows West Side out of the water"

So now we OFFICIALLY know you have NO idea what you're talking about.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:24pm

Uh, Pippin is just a Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat-wannabe.

If you wanted to boast Schwartz's best show, I'd say Godspell or The Baker's Wife. But it's still not Sondheim-level (I'm not even a Sondheim-worshipper, btw.)

Updated On: 4/18/06 at 09:24 PM

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:25pm

Jasonf, because I have my own opinion, I don't know what I am talking about?

Pippin is a great show, West Side is not.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:26pm

You're in a VAST minority in that opinion.

And PIPPIN will NEVER be held on the same level as WEST SIDE. WEST SIDE is legendary and even the least theatre savvy people have heard of it. You can't say that for PIPPIN.

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:27pm

Just because people have heard of it, does that make it good?

[Fabrizio2]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:28pm

Judas, are you a teeny bopper?

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:29pm

It was good enough to tour where they live. Again, not what you can say about PIPPIN.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:29pm

What does it matter?

We like who we like...

There is a reason why someone like Schwartz can coexist with someone like Sondheim. There's a reason why a show like WICKED can play successfully just a few blocks away from SWEENEY TODD.

Each composer has their fans, and that's all that matters.


Updated On: 4/18/06 at 09:29 PM

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:31pm

Am I a teeny bopper? Sure, what the hell, lets call me a teeny bopper. If thats what I have to be branded to have my own opinion and to think outside of the mold, then sure. If I must be called a teeny bopper for liking Wicked, why not? So yes, I most certainly am.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:31pm

Judas, you DO realize that Sondheim didn't compose WSS, right? If you want to compare lyrics alone, try Rags vs. WSS.

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:31pm

First of all, what FOAnatic said is true.

Second, your point is made moot by the fact that Sondheim didn't write the music for West Side Story. Regardless of your opinion of the show, why don't you compare it to a show where Schwartz has the same credits as Sondheim - as both lyricist and composer?

Again, for the record, I love most of Schwartz's stuff, so I'm NOT looking to put him down - there's no reason to put down the works of one to appreciate the works of the other.

That said, and I think the majority of informed theater fans agree, no one can touch Sondheim when it comes to lyrics and music. To say he lacks melody in his writing is simply ignorant.

[deck925]

Posted: 4/18/06 at 9:32pm

I think it's a little presumptuous to say Pippin blows West Side Story out of the way though.


*edit*
water i mean

Updated On: 4/18/06 at 09:32 PM