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LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?- Page 2

LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?

apdarcey
#25re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:14am

i know penguin! the backdrop was simply the all the sunset (or sunrise for clara's state?) color. the same one on the cd cover...

tgif, if you couldn't tell, i loved this show! i've put a lot of thought into the different aspects of it as it affected me a lot. margo, i agree about tirade, i thought musically it taught me so much about the character.

#26re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:23am

". . . seems to simply pull out her "disability" when the plot points dictate it as a necessesity."

I didn't have this experience. I do remember feeling initially that I wasn't getting clear impressions of what exactly her mental state was, but then it dawned on me that that was exactly the point. I did see this as very much about Margaret's journey, and as such, the confusion I felt trying to understand Clara's capacities only heightened and gave resonance to the challenge that Margaret faced. This led, ultimately, to the very satisfactory sense of elation I felt when Margaret was finally able to let Clara find and define her existense on her own terms.

apdarcey
#27re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:24am

wonderfully put dg. i definitely felt that the writers have put all their thought into clara as a character.

#28re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:37am

To revisit the original question, and specifically the further delineation put forth by Margo, I'm not sure of what people are using to define 'operatic' (chamber, or otherwise.) I'm not overly trained in this, so I've always somewhat simplistically looked at the use of recitative to diferentiate the forms somewhat. It seems to me that PIAZZA utilizes set song pieces (albeit, without those frequently referenced 'buttons') as opposed to being comprised primarily of vocalized narrative.

Ultimately, this may all boil down to just splitting hairs. I definitely agree that this is a piece of musical theatre, however you further classify it, as opposed to a 'play with music'.

apdarcey
#29re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:41am

well i think it's simply a musical. it's not a chamber opera, and it's definitely not a play with music. just because it's not musical comedy (even though there are parts of the show that are very funny), doesn't mean that it can't be classified as musical theatre.

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TGIF
#30re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:43am

May I ask why it is even being questioned. Is it due to lack of dancing?


I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!

#31re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:44am

I'm not sensing a big problem having musical drama classified as musical theatre - otherwise, explain CAROUSEL. I am curious, however, in what people think differentiates opera from musical.

apdarcey
#32re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 12:47am

well it's a very fine line obviously. because there are pieces of theatre that are sung-through, and thus could be considered opera (les mis, phantom, and my favorite, falsettos, which i actually did a report on for an opera class).. but there are also pieces normally categorized as opera, the singspiels, that are dialogue and music (the beggar's opera and the magic flute)

Jazzysuite82
#33re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:09am

Actually it's a line that needn't be drawn. Sondheim says it depends on what house the piece is playing for. If it's an operahouse, it's an opera. It has to do with the people who go. But people have been wondering if Sweeney Todd and Passion are operas because of the music and style. Same with Marie Christine. The authors wrote them as musicals...so I think they should be regarded as that. Sondheim claims Sweeney is a musical, not an operetta. I think it's whatever the creators intend it to be. I don't see the point in getting caught up in genres. I evaluate pieces individually. Recitative means nothing really because Caroline used it alot and it was a musical. Dessa Rose used next to none and it's considered a folk opera. I think there's a simple reason that there's too much music to be a play with music. Everything is musicalized including the book scenes.

apdarcey
#34re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:19am

interesting points jazzy. but it should be noted that many professional opera companies regard sweeney as an opera and perform it thus. not to mention the very large-scale staging la opera just gave to a little night music. i'm not saying you're wrong though or anything... also, i think it funny that sondheim originally was given the rights to sunset boulevard and said he couldn't do it because the show would have to be an opera and he couldn't write that. so then the rights went to lloyd webber. and yet some people consider some of sondheim's works operas... it's just funny to think about different people's interpretations, huh?

MargoChanning
#35re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:26am

I've heard Sondheim discuss this notion of how audience expectations play a part in how a musical work is characterized and have always found it fascinating. Had PIAZZA premiered across the Lincoln Center Plaza at City Opera as part of their season rather than at the Beaumont (with a cast of performers who have a great deal of operatic training), it would have certainly been considered a new American chamber opera and not a musical. It's all about perception -- the definitions don't mean a lot at the end of the day.


"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

Jazzysuite82
#36re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:32am

Right it was an opera in an opera house.He wrote it for teh theatre. When it's on broadway to him it is a musical. Expectation to SOndheim does mean a lot. He doesn't like melodrama much, but Sweeney is def an exception. he looks at it as a horror movie though.

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Marquise
#37re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:38am

This has to be one of the most interesting threads I have read on this board in a looooong time! re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?

apdarcey
#38re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:40am

hah, thanks marquise, care to contribute your thoughts on piazza?

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TGIF
#39re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:41am

re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?


I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!

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Marquise
#40re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 1:52am

I wish I could but I haven't seen the show so I can't weigh in my opinion. The closest I've got to see was the 1962 film version which was a straight drama.

I do like your opinions on it though. They are very well thought out. The show sounds interesting.

Jon
#41re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 6:58am

Well, the Tony committee sure thinks it's a musical!

Which brings us back to the CONTACT controversy.

CONTACT premiered at the Mitzi Newhouse Theatre with the subtitle "A Dance Play". It was Susan Stroman's risky, experimental little project. Then all the major reviewers started calling it "the best musical in years" and saying how it "breathed new life into the tired musical genre", et cetera. I'm sure the creators of the show never dreamed it would transfer to the Vivian Beaumont, win a buch of Tony Awards, and run two years.

Should the folks at Lincoln Center have said, "Oh no, we're just a dance play - we're not a musical, in spite of what the critics say! Please don't even considewr nominating us for the Tony Awards!"

BwayTheatre11
#42re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 8:36am

GREAT question. We need more like this!

I wish I could asnwer, lol. I have not seen the production.


CCM '10!

#43re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:16pm


i would definitely call it a musical but most of my reasoning has already been stated by others.

i noted clara's name too.

apdarcey
#44re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:18pm

jon, excellent point about contact! i myself always considered more of a ballet, and was intrigued when it was named best new musical.. piazza, though, is surely a new musical. no, it's the same as other musicals currently playing on broadway, it's not glitzy, it's not showy, it's not comedy.. it is real dramatic musical theatre. and i for one, love it!

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TGIF
#45re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:19pm

If the show had some dancing in it, would we be questioning if it was a musical or not?


I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!

apdarcey
#46re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:25pm

haha, interesting point tgif... i for one am not questioning it all for a second. i think it's more of a musical than some other things currently on broadway... but i do have to say how much i have enjoyed this thread!

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robbiej
#47re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:42pm

Under my (and I think a relatively well accepted) definition of what a musical is, yes...PIAZZA surely does combine book, score and movement through space to tell a story. Now, we can debate how effectively it's told...but I think it would be tough to argue that this is not a musical.

Another version of a play with music is 'The International Stud', the first act of Harvey Fierstein's TORCH SONG TRILOGY. A blues singer is used to comment on the action of the play...but character is never actually revealed through song. Moods and emotions are in some ways, but the developed characters of Arnold and Ed (was that his name? I did it so long ago!) express themselves only through dialogue.


"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

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smartpenguin78
#48re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:44pm

It is certainly a musical and a well deverloped one at that, Margo I think the "Tirade" is a great example of how the lyrics and music of the show actually do more to develop the characters than the book, not that I disliked the book.

It is real, dramatic musical theatre with a lush, lovely extremely well integrated score.

DGrant:
"I did see this as very much about Margaret's journey, and as such, the confusion I felt trying to understand Clara's capacities only heightened and gave resonance to the challenge that Margaret faced..." Exactly what I was trying to say at a different point, I was still a bit disconected from Clara, and not having any idea what was going on before hand it took me some time to understand that, my comment about Clara seeming disabled more at certain times still holds up to me though.
It may be a choice, and it may be a realistic understanding of the character, but it was the one part of the show that I found flawed.


I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.

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bwaysinger
#49re: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA -- Is it a musical?
Posted: 5/20/05 at 3:50pm

I say it's a musical simply from the sheer amount of music involved.
Most plays with music would only have songs to occasionally enhance a scene or moment. This musical very standardly has a song complete a scene, or act as a scene itself.
There was a recent off-off-Broadway showcase of what I would DEFINITELY term a play with music (albeit barely) called "Joy." It was a play, but the character occasionally sang. They were standards but fit the moment and weren't intended to be diagetic (i.e. happening "in real life") but rather the natural heightening of the moment.