The Grammar Thread (updated)

[Yero my Hero]

Just noticed this slightly old post:

It's pretty astonishing that it's been almost four years and no one has noticed that in the original post there was a horrifying mistake involving quoatation marks and the placing of a period...

Yikes.

All examples will also work if you replace "Wicked" for "Brooklyn".

One way is correct in American English, the other is correct in British English. Since this is an international message board, I don't think that counts as a "horrifying mistake."

[Mister Matt]

Yero my Hero is my hero.

[Yero my Hero]

Aww, thanks. *blushes*

I think hypercorrection bugs me even more than plain old bad grammar.

[Mister Matt]

I think it's time for a refresher.

[Mister Matt]

I had to add more updates because things seem to be getting worse before they get better.

[iflip4musicals]

One of the things I do at my day job is type daily notes the staff writes about what the clients do each day, and I have found some doozies.

"[Client] road a public transportation to work today."
"[Client] was a lot rude. She had a great day."

Thanks Jane. It's multiple staff members writing the reports, so then wouldn't it be "the staff write"?

[Jane2]

^ there's an error in your own statement. It should be "the staff writes" not write.

[Jane2]

No, iflip, you're talking about one staff that writes, not several staffs.

[dramamama611]

Jane is correct. There is ONE staff comprised of many members.

[iflip4musicals]

Color me embarrassed, we've been saying it wrong for years then!

[Jane2]

Oh, don't worry. It's a common error, you see it a lot here.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Actually, either is correct, and if you're stressing that individual members write individual reports, I'd probably go with "the staff write" (though adding "members" would make it clearer). If they write them as a team, I'd say "the staff writes."

Also, strictly speaking the whole comprises the parts, so it would be "There is one staff comprising many members," but dramamamma's usage is becoming more and more common.

[Jane2]

Rules of grammar may have changed since I've been in school. I was going by what I was taught!

What is Dramamamma's usage? I thought she was agreeing with me.

[Reginald Tresilian]

I think grammar "rules" are a bit more fluid than they used to be, not least because a bunch them were just made up by grammar school teachers (such as not splitting an infinitive--because you can't split one in Latin!) in the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries.

"Staff writes" is certainly more common--possibly even more likely to be correct--but "staff write" isn't automatically wrong.

I was talking about Dramamamma's usage of "comprise."

[PalJoey]

"Comprised of" is NEVER correct.

You can say "There is one staff composed of many members" or "Many members comprise the staff" but to say "There is ONE staff comprised of many members" is a hypercorrection: a grammatical mistake made in an attempt to sound authoritative.

[dramamama611]

I am. (Reginald's post just confuses me.)

[Reginald Tresilian]

Sorry about that!

Both posts? Any particular part(s)?

[artscallion]

Regarding the word, "staff", I think it can be used two ways, as Reg says. If it is used as a singular group writing something together, then, "the staff writes..." If they, as individuals in this group, are producing individual efforts, "the staff write..." In the second sense of the word, it's comparable to the word, "people". Yes it's a group, but you wouldn't say, "the people writes..."

Is that clear? I needed an awful lot of punctuation in there and likely got something wrong.

[Jane2]

oy. I'm here to say I'm sticking with what I was taught. The subject of the original sentence is singular (staff), so the predicate agrees (writes). Simple!

[Mister Matt]

The Collective Noun

[Jane2]

Go away, Matt.

[Mister Matt]

I wasn't taking sides! I was just clearing up the issue.

Much love to all parties involved. Now, if only the people who actually need this thread would read it.

[Reginald Tresilian]

That's actually very helpful, Mister Matt!

"Collective nouns can be either singular or plural, depending on context." That was the point I was trying to make.

[iflip4musicals]

Thanks Mister Matt! Sorry for starting this, but glad we could all get some closure.

[John Adams]

>> "glad we could all get some closure."

When referring to the cast of the Elton John musical:
* Billys?
* Billies? or
* "Billy"s?

[Mister Matt]

Billys.

And currently, Matildas.

For this reason, there is no such show as Cat's. Or Pixar film known as Car's.