"Faves" you've never actually seen

[EM55]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 9:03am

Been seeing posts on social media a lot more lately (with the DEH and TGC fan bases in particular) where people gush over their "all time favorite musical" and how "important" it is to them, then follow with saying things like "I hope I get to see it one day". 

And it made me wonder what your opinions are on whether you can truly call , especially in the case of non sung through musicals, an "all time favorite" with only ever hearing a cast recording?

I personally have seen shows that going in with a random knowledge of songs I liked was underwhelmed with the actual production overall, and others I went on a whim and was pleasantly surprised to fall in love with. 

Granted if you didn't grow up going to theater you likely did that with old cast albums, but there are film versions of many classics and now (I hate to even say this) bootlegs of contemporary shows, but are cast albums alone enough to determine what makes it to life-changing all time fave status ?

Do you have an all time favorite you have never seen at all? Just curious your opinions. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 9:46am

I somewhat agree that it's a bit presumptuous to declare something you've never seen as one's "favorite show of all time", but more so with musicals that aren't sung through. If a show is sung-through, it seems a bit more valid because you're essentially getting the entire story, albeit without any visuals. 

The only show I've never seen that I nonetheless consistently count among my favorites is The Woman In White. The CD reflects what I believe is quite nearly the entire show, and I love it.

Updated On: 6/25/17 at 09:46 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 11:04am

As a kid, I'm sure I had this thought. But then, I didn't have access to live theater.  I knew cast recordings and whatever shows I happen to be in. So, I suppose I can understand. 

But no, now -seeing as much theater as I do- I can't imagine feeling that way.  In fact, I seldom purchase music to shows I haven't seen...and even when I do,  often I can't really get into it.

[leighmiserables]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 12:50pm

I've never seen Next to Normal live, but I'd put it somewhere in my top five of favorite shows. I own the full script and the cast recording, have watched every clip of it I can find on YT, etc. and I do think I can pretty fully grasp the show and confidently call it one of my favorites of all time, and I don't think seeing a live performance would change that. 

As for the examples you listed with TGC and DEH – I probably listened to the original TGC soundtrack at least once a week every week from early 2015 (when I found out about it) to November 2016, when I finally got a chance to see it live. Now, prior to seeing it, I would have also put it somewhere in my top five, but with TGC especially, seeing it in person completely changes your perception of a lot of stuff, and it immediately catapulted it to around my number two spot. The same thing happened with DEH, but in the opposite direction. I wasn't a massive fan of the music itself – I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it – but figured in context maybe it'd come across better for me. However when I saw it, book and all, it only solidified my indifference towards the show (except for Ben Platt, of course, who only grew in opinion in my mind). 

So basically, long story short, I think that it's very possible to call something your "favorite show" without ever seeing it live. People usually have a pretty good sense of what they like and dislike, and unless there's something radical that happens in the live performance, I don't think seeing it live would do much to change your opinion on it. 

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 1:42pm

An interesting question.  

I bought the Broadway recording of She Loves Me before I ever saw the show.  Loved every song.  And found it to be one of the best I had heard.  Without seeing it.

Once I saw it, I was equally enchanted.  It lived up to my expectations.

Similarly I grabbed the cast recording of Will Rogers Follies after seeing the Tonys that year and listened to it repeatedly.  Loved it.  Every song.   Then I saw it on stage, and wasn't as electrified by the show as I thought I would be.  I was envisioning it completely different in some parts while listening to it from what it really was on stage.  It was a good musical, but not what I was expecting.

It's hard to tell.

Nowadays I don't buy a recording before seeing the show.  Because you never know what's going to happen.

[temms]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 1:57pm

I've thought about this a lot, actually. There are a number of older shows that I wasn't around for (some that weren't even professionally recorded) that I know from ephemera like draft scripts and scratchy bootlegs and photos from books and the Lincoln Center library and reviews and articles, and I love these shows that I've never seen. I love them the same way I love favorite shows that I have seen. 

When it's over, a show only lives on in your mind. We experience a show once (most of us) but it lives in us forever. (How's that for cheesy?) So there are unseen shows that burn as brightly in my mind as the ones I've seen, and in the end that's all we're left with anyway. 

There's also the phenomenon of where the production in your head is way better than the one you actually see. My imagined "Hair" has never been equaled by anyone actually doing it. 

[gleek4114]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 2:23pm

I cite Side Show is my favorite musical, even though I've never gotten to see it live. I own both cast albums, and I've seen bootlegs of both the original and revival. Even though I've never seen it LIVE (it's a hard one to catch), I have no reservation saying it's my absolute favorite. 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 2:38pm

I think it's totally possible to love a how you haven't seen.

If it's a play, you can read the script (in fact many were written to be read s literature without being seen) and if it's a musical you can hear the music and know the story. For me that is enough.

My top musicals are SHE LOVES ME and A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC. I saw SHE LOVES ME on Broadway last season because it was my favorite show, and it did live up to my expectations. I still haven't seen ALNM but I have no doubt in my mind that I adore it. I know the story, I've listened to the music hundreds of time and read the script, in addition to watching the NYCO video and listening to a radio broadcast or two. More shows I loved before I saw them were THE GOLDEN APPLE and THE FANTASTICKS. And I love LITTLE SHOP and ON A CLEAR DAY (the original version) without having seen them either.

I think anyone who rolls their eyes and judges someone for loving a show they haven't seen are the pretentious ones. We all don't have the luxury of seeing every show that hits Broadway or New York (or even Boston, Chicago etc.) and in fact for the vast majority of theatre fans even the closest community or regional theatres are an hour or more away. And for young people if you don't drive that means no theatre for you.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 2:48pm

I counted The Most Happy Fella as among my favorites long before I got to see relatively recent productions at Da Capo Opera and Encores. But that show is very much music-driven and benefits from having two complete and extremely vivid recordings. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 7:05pm

Mr. Nowack said: "I think it's totally possible to love a how you haven't seen.

If it's a play, you can read the script (in fact many were written to be read s literature without being seen) and if it's a musical you can hear the music and know the story. For me that is enough.

My top musicals are SHE LOVES ME and A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC. I saw SHE LOVES ME on Broadway last season because it was my favorite show, and it did live up to my expectations. I still haven't seen ALNM but I have no doubt in my mind that I adore it. I know the story, I've listened to the music hundreds of time and read the script, in addition to watching the NYCO video and listening to a radio broadcast or two. More shows I loved before I saw them were THE GOLDEN APPLE and THE FANTASTICKS. And I love LITTLE SHOP and ON A CLEAR DAY (the original version) without having seen them either.

I think anyone who rolls their eyes and judges someone for loving a show they haven't seen are the pretentious ones. We all don't have the luxury of seeing every show that hits Broadway or New York (or even Boston, Chicago etc.) and in fact for the vast majority of theatre fans even the closest community or regional theatres are an hour or more away. And for young people if you don't drive that means no theatre for you.

 

I understand your point, BUT.  You were lucky, in that She Loves Me is a perfect show.  I absolutely love the score to Rags -- it is one of my absolute favorites -- but I have been assured by this board that I would have been severely let down by the original production, which was described as a mess that tried to cover too much ground, and failed as a result.  Still, the cast album remains a favorite that I play at lead sty every few weeks, something I don't do for some of my all-time favorites that I have seen, e.g., ironically ALNM.  

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 7:28pm

True that SHE LOVES ME is a hard show to mess up.

The original version of ON A CLEAR DAY is a show I looove despite assurance that it was a mess and tedious/nonsensical at times. I still find thew story and themes fascinating, and the music is some of the best the Golden Age has to offer. I hope to see it someday

[Emmaloucbway]

Posted: 6/25/17 at 7:49pm

Chess is one of my favorite scores, and even though I've watched the DVD of the Royal Albert Hall concert I've never seen the show live (hopefully in a little over a year that will change if the revival rumors are true)! 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 2:23am

We can only know what we know, right? LI'L ABNER is one of my favorite musical comedies, but I don't think it's had a first-class production since I was in kindergarten. Still I saw at least three high school productions when I was a kid, and I have a DVD of the largely faithful film. I play the CD at least once per month.

Am I supposed to pretend I have no opinion about it?

I do--when it matters for the sake of clarity and honesty--try to acknowledge in discussions what my experience of a show is or isn't.

[jo]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 6:49am

Lot666 said: 

The only show I've never seen that I nonetheless consistently count among my favorites is The Woman In White. The CD reflects what I believe is quite nearly the entire show, and I love it.

"

If I recall right, the CD was a live recording at the Palace Theatre in London of an actual production. So, it would include most of the entire show, except maybe for some editing to fit CD content restrictions.

I saw the show both in London and on Broadway, but with Michael Ball as Count Fosco. Michael Crawford was the original cast but had taken sick during the London run. 

It's one of my favorite ALWebber musical theatre albums.

 

 

[Lot666]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 10:46am

jo said: "Lot666 said: 

The only show I've never seen that I nonetheless consistently count among my favorites is The Woman In White. The CD reflects what I believe is quite nearly the entire show, and I love it."

If I recall right, the CD was a live recording at the Palace Theatre in London of an actual production. So, it would include most of the entire show, except maybe for some editing to fit CD content restrictions.

I saw the show both in London and on Broadway, but with Michael Ball as Count Fosco. Michael Crawford was the original cast but had taken sick during the London run. 

It's one of my favorite ALWebber musical theatre albums."

Thanks for chiming in - it's nice to meet someone else who appreciates this score!

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 12:58pm

It's complicated.

On the one hand, there are scores I loved on hearing from shows I've later seen and not loved or even been very disappointed by.
And vice versa - there are scores that didn't thrill me from shows which I surprisingly later saw and loved.  To the point sometimes where my feelings about the show as a whole made me appreciate the score very much.

On top of which, I often revise how I feel about shows based on productions that I feel unlocked or understood what was there in the text; often what was there that had eluded me for years based on either my hearing of the score and or my response to productions I saw earlier.

on top of on top of that, sometimes my revised opinion of a show has more to do with how I've changed than about how a newly seen production treated the show.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 1:31pm

For years ONCE ON THIS ISLAND was among my top ten favorite musicals sight unseen, strictly based on the OBC CD. A low-rent production performed by Reprise out here in LA a few years ago did little to dim my appreciation for the show itself. High hopes that the promised Bway revival next year will prove my original assessment of the show correct.

Aside from that, I'm old enough to have seen some professional production of nearly every great musical I've ever heard about. (Still waiting for that ONE TOUCH OF VENUS revival though...)

[EM55]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 1:42pm

Thank you guys for intelligent, thoughtful responses. Its nice to know this board can still have those from time to time lol. I appreciate all your opinions!

[Valentina3]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 1:59pm

Follies. I have never seen a live version, just heard all the recordings out there (over and over again) and read Ted Chapin's excellent book about its creation. His writing transported me to the theater, and it was easy to fall in love with what I think is Sondheim's most complex and rich score. At this point, I'm almost worried about watching an actual production of the show, that it will disappoint my made-up memory of it.

Updated On: 6/26/17 at 01:59 PM

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 3:23pm

^ Be very worried, Valentina. I love the FOLLIES score, and have seen a slew of supposedly top-flight productions in the flesh: the '85 Concert at Lincoln Center, the '87 West End revival, Roundabout revival in '01, Chicago Shakespeare Festival show in '11 along with the last Bway revival (both shows in 1 intense weekend!) and I have yet to see a production that fulfills the promise of that storied original Bway show described in the Chapin book. For me personally, that's one show cursed never to work in the flesh, only on a CD.

[broadwaysfguy]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 8:16pm

Merrily We Roll Along is my "top" fave ive never seen a live production of. I did see the recently pro shot version of the UK show from a few years ago, which i thought was outstanding. Its probably not an all time "great musical", because of the backwards story line and starting the show having so little empathy or connection with the main characters. but the songs, oh my God, the wonderful songs....

 Have most versions of the cast recordings.  Our Time, Opening Doors, merrily we roll along, not a day goes by, Good thing going are all in my top 25 all time favorite sondheim songs, more than any other show.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 8:58pm

I wish the licensed version of MERRILY used the graduation framing device.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 9:13pm

Someone in a Tree2 said: "^ Be very worried, Valentina. I love the FOLLIES score, and have seen a slew of supposedly top-flight productions in the flesh: the '85 Concert at Lincoln Center, the '87 West End revival, Roundabout revival in '01, Chicago Shakespeare Festival show in '11 along with the last Bway revival (both shows in 1 intense weekend!) and I have yet to see a production that fulfills the promise of that storied original Bway show described in the Chapin book. For me personally, that's one show cursed never to work in the flesh, only on a CD.

 

"

The last Broadway revival was terrific with Victoria Clark at the Ahmanson, Someone, particularly by the end of the run. It's certainly my favorite of the productions I've seen since the original Broadway production (which I saw twice).

But the original FOLLIES was really sui generis. It was produced with no regard for cost, cast with outsized personalities and scored for those particular performers, sometimes using details from their personal lives. How could that possibly be done again and still be Sondheim and Goldman's FOLLIES?

I've seen four productions since, however, and none has disappointed me. Clark and Ron Raines' "Too Many Mornings" was nearly grand opera in scale, something glorious I'd never heard before; for the first time, the intermission which ensued seemed justified. (Not better than McMartin and Collins, but wonderfully different.)

Jan Maxwell played Phyllis as a three-dimensional character, and for the first time I realized that Alexis Smith basically wandered around looking majestic all in red and cracking one-liners. This isn't to say Smith wasn't fabulous--she was and her "Lucy and Jessie" was greatly superior. But she was "fabulous" in the original sense (i.e., like a creature from a fable, larger-than-life) more than human. In a way, it was more believable that Ben would reach out to Maxwell's human Phyllis than to Smith's "movie star" Phyllis.

And so it goes, if, as Obama liked to say, we don't let the perfect blind us to the possible.

[jtishere]

Posted: 6/26/17 at 11:39pm

Follies is one of those for me as well. The Chapin book is so fascinating and really does do as much as it can to put you in the thick of it.

There wasn't a lot of local theatre where I grew up, so I fell in love with shows through cast recordings and film musicals. I can remember buying cast albums like Ragtime, Sunset Boulevard and The Most Happy Fella and falling in love with the music and the stories. As was mentioned above, it's easier to get the gist of shows like these where so much is included on the album.

That prospect is so much more difficult on other cast recordings. For me, although I knew so much of the music as well as the basic storyline - and had even seen the Roz Russell film - I never really got Gypsy until I finally saw a live production. I wouldn't have called myself a fan of it, but sitting in the theatre, everything for that show clicked into place for me and now it looms large in my personal pantheon.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/27/17 at 8:39am

^^^ Maybe because I'd seen Merman live (in CALL ME MADAM), I was able to imagine GYPSY quite well from the cast album and photographs. Of course, it was different, but just as brilliant, with Lansbury, and there were several Jerome Robbins-inspired sequences that surprised me (in a very good way).