The Legacy of This Season's Musicals

[willrolandsframes]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 12:26am

So what do we think the legacy of each of this year's Tony Nominated musicals will be in about 15-20 years? What will we remember them for?

I feel like shows such as Dear Evan Hansen and Come From Away will go down with positive legacies, and the revivals of Falsettos and Miss Saigon also will not have a stained legacy. I think that Great Comet, while at first will have a good legacy, may start to lose a bit of its positives over time.

The two shows that, in my opinion, will have negative legacies are Hello, Dolly! and Groundhog Day. I think that this revival of Hello, Dolly! will go down as having been tainted by Scott Rudin, and it being such a prideful, closed-door, secret cool kid show that it will not have a good legacy. I feel like Groundhog Day will, unfortunately, be remembered for Andy Karl's ACL injury, which is unfortunate.

So what do you think the legacies of this year's shows will be?

[leighmiserables]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 1:19am

I don't see why Great Comet would have anything other than a positive "legacy," whatever that means, and will probably have a more lasting impact as a whole on Broadway then any of the other shows you mentioned. No one thinks TGC is a perfect show by any means, but it's almost definitely going to be remembered as a directorial masterpiece by Rachel Chavkin, and overall as a triumph in design elements by Mimi Lien, Bradley King, and Nicholas Pope (the set, lighting, and sound designers, respectively). Much like Rent opened the doors to a whole slew of popular musicals (most notably, In the Heights, Spring Awakening, and Next to Normal), I think ten (or hopefully maybe even less) years from now, The Great Comet is going to be the show people cite as the trailblazer for a new type of musical theatre, one that we can't really foresee now, but it'll happen. 

I mean, most people's beef with TGC is that it's style and weirdness over substance, and while I don't agree, imagine what it's going to be like when a few years from now a show opens that undeniably has style and substance. And it'll be traced back to Comet, no doubt. 

Updated On: 6/16/17 at 01:19 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 1:25am

I think the legacy of this thread will be that it is one of the most preposterous in an already crowded field. 

[froote]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 2:26am

I think Great Comet is ahead of its time and will have the most positive and long lasting 'legacy' of any new musical this year. It will be a score studied for years to come and both musically and visually will influence numerous future shows.

DEH's legacy will be the memory of Ben Platt's performance and an example of how N2N has effected Broadway rather than creating its own major impact.

Not sure about CFA, I think it could be easily forgotten due to being a non-Best Musical winner that also hasn't really brought anything new to Broadway.

Updated On: 6/16/17 at 02:26 AM

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 3:04am

willrolandsframes said: "The two shows that, in my opinion, will have negative legacies are Hello, Dolly! and Groundhog Day. I think that this revival of Hello, Dolly! will go down as having been tainted by Scott Rudin, and it being such a prideful, closed-door, secret cool kid show that it will not have a good legacy. I feel like Groundhog Day will, unfortunately, be remembered for Andy Karl's ACL injury, which is unfortunate."

That's all I hear from people coming out of seeing Dolly, that Rudin tainted it and they hate being labeled cool kids. And then most of the time they try to figure out who was the actress playing Dolly and comment that she wasn't bad.

And yeah, shame about Karl's ACL. If only he didn't have to miss 6-8 weeks to recover and somehow could have worked through it, he would have been hailed as a hero and a true professional. The show might have survived and his incredible dedication might have become the show's positive legacy or maybe that it was just a really good show and surprised people. But sadly it was just not to be. So yeah, negative legacies for both, clearly.

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 3:08am

DEH did nothing that N2N didn't already do, so its legacy won't be anything special, imo. (I'm a bit sick of people acting like DEH opened all these revolutionary doors in terms of theatre when...it didn't.) 

 

I imagine Comet will be remembered as something fresh and new and, as has been mentioned, a pioneer for whatever similar musicals come after it. 

Updated On: 6/16/17 at 03:08 AM

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 3:28am

I think that Dear Evan Hansen will have a very healthy life in regional theatre.  Next to Normal is not very easy to produce for a number of reasons and I also think that DEH has the far superior score, so I wouldn't be surprised if it took over the crowd that would typically be doing N2N.  TGC will be very hard to do at schools and community theatres, but I'm sure that the score will live on.  CFA will probably have a long life in hick town community theatres where it belongs (yes I do not love that show, please do not fight me over it) and I'm sure that Groundhog Day will be a similar situation.  

I also agree that this production of Hello, Dolly! will not have a great legacy.  A lot of people found the cast album to be mediocre and their Tony performance was embarrassing.  The actual production is magnificent, but if you weren't there to see it, you may not be very impressed.

[froote]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 3:30am

Why is N2N difficult to produce? It's had a great regional life so far. As for the score, very subjective. DEH's score is clearly very influenced by N2N's for a start.

Updated On: 6/16/17 at 03:30 AM

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 3:52am

From someone that has both directed a production of N2N and starred in a production as Diane, it is a hard score to sing.  It has a lot more singing than DEH does and it's just really difficult to perform and stage.  I think the material is pretty flawed also, which makes it rather difficult to hide those flaws.  I just think that DEH is a safer and easier show to do so long as you have a strong leading man to fill the role of Evan.  It covers a lot of the same themes and is pretty similar, so I could see some theatres choosing to do DEH over N2N.

Also, while DEH's score may seem influenced by N2N, I think that it is more just influenced by modern pop music with some inspiration from N2N, and N2N was clearly influenced by Rent.  Nothing is completely original.  Also, there are very few pop and rock chords, so all pop and rock music is basically kind of all the same thing.  This is probably why so many people are hearing so many similarities.  I happen to prefer the score of DEH to the score of N2N, simply because DEH is more melodic and has slightly better lyrics.  Neither one is perfect, but some of N2N's flaws are much more glaring to me.

[froote]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 4:00am

Fair enough. As I say though, I think your points are very subjective, other than Diana being a hard role to sing, although I think Evan is too.

N2N's score definitely takes inspiration from Rent and I don't think it's a bad thing to take inspiration from other shows like DEH does with a ton of other pop scores. For me, N2N's score is better because it's more varied, combining a range of slow, midtempo and upbeat songs, whereas I feel like DEH is very ballad-heavy. I also think the lyrics are better in the former, even if neither show has perfect lyrics. I do think it's worth nothing though that N2N never had its flaws analyzed and dissected in the way DEH is having now. To me it seems clear that DEH's flaws are far more obvious, hence the numerous articles and blog posts being written about it. 

Either way, I think there is room in regional theatre for both as I think they appeal to a slightly different audience. I certainly would be irritated to see DEH push N2N out of that, considering it wouldn't exist without N2N paving the way for it.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 4:07am

Fair enough, I just have substantial problems with N2N's structure most of all and it's musical diversity is what makes it so difficult.  All that being said, I still enjoy both shows very much.

[Gensho]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 7:26am

Yet another thread of Great Comet fans bashing DEH.  I'm going back to bed. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 7:35am

No one bashed anything or anyone.  People were having a pretty civil DISCUSSION about music.  Sheesh.

[froote]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 7:44am

Gensho said: "Yet another thread of Great Comet fans bashing DEH.  I'm going back to bed. "

Can those of you who can't bear civil discussion of this show go start a DEH message board or something and leave us to it? Thanks. 

[Gensho]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 7:54am

Leave you to what? 

Not only was DEH a part of this season, thus the title of the thread, it also won more Tonys than any other show. Im tired of the show getting written off by the members of this board. The show is sold out for a reason. 

Hello Dolly! was phenomenal. I don't really care that Rudin's a jerk. I saw Groundhogs Day in London. It was enjoyable, but not the second coming the way people talk about it. I can't see Great Comet having a long life because it will be too expensive to produce and the score and storyline are so inaccessible. 

Come From Away will tour and be performed regionally and in high schools. Anastasia seems to be doing fine on its own. That will also have a successful tour and be done regionally. 

DEH will have a successful tour. I doubt that it will be done on the West End though. N2N wasn't done on the West End either. DEH might also become a film project. 

 

Updated On: 6/16/17 at 07:54 AM

[froote]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 7:59am

Leave us to the civil discussion. Yes DEH is part of this season therefore people are sharing their views on its legacy, like the other shows. No one is denying the show's current popularity, but that's a different thing to its legacy. The opening post and your post are both negative about Great Comet yet no one is accusing anyone of bashing that show, nor accusing GeorgeandDot of bashing Next to Normal. Yet as soon as anyone doesn't lick DEH's butt, someone has to pop up to defend it and claim it's being bashed. It's getting ridiculous. This is a Broadway message board, not a DEH fan board. 

[Gensho]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 8:05am

I love N2N. I think it's s phenomenal show and most definitely paved the way for DEH. I feel like criticizing Great Comet makes one persona non grata on these boards. That's why people are forced to start DEH positivity threads. 

[froote]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 8:07am

Absolutely untrue, Great Comet has been divisive on this board from day one, just as DEH has. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 9:01am

Actually, I think there were more people that didn't care for Comet then DEH....but it might be closer to even.  I think the things peeps don't like about Comet just don't stir controversial discussion -- how much can you say about style over substance, for example.  I think, DEH fans seem to take it more personally when someone isn't in love with the show.

 

I loved both shows, actually, although I think I favored Comet just a tad.    I can love a show and still talk about its flaws....like blindly following religion without question, so is blind belief in perfection about a show.  There is no perfect show, (Well, maybe Kander and Ebb's stuff) nor is there any show that 100% of its audience will love.  And think how boring conversations would be....I mean, just how many times can you read/say, I love it/him/that?

[leighmiserables]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 10:17am

dramamama611 said: "Actually, I think there were more people that didn't care for Comet then DEH....but it might be closer to even.  

"

I think the thing is with TGC, people seem to either like it or hate it with no in between. With DEH people's feelings are more moderately spread. 

Updated On: 6/16/17 at 10:17 AM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 11:33am

Impossible to say but to play along...

I hope Great Comet is remembered as Dave Malloy's first foray into a string of innovative Broadway musicals. I don't think it will set off a wave of copycats or wildly change the theater landscape (unfortunately) but I hope it brings in more young performers and audience members and that people come to appreciate unique and versatile voices like Amber Gray and Grace McLean. I think part of it's legacy will be Rachel Chavkin not winning the Tony she deserved. 

To me, A Bronx Tale is the Alan Menken/Glenn Slater partnership finally finding its footing. Is it the greatest show? No. But even though there's a lot of pastiche, it convinced me that Alan Menken has one or two more great shows in him if he can find the right material (and maybe the right lyricist... OK, fine, I haven't completely gotten on board with Glenn Slater yet). 

Like the original movie, I think Anastasia will have the legacy you'd expect as a knockoff of a Disney princess movie. I think it will be similar to the Disney shows, beloved and performed in schools, just not as long lasting or iconic. I haven't seen it yet so I don't know what it means for Ahrens and Flaherty though I did not like the music for Rocky and their music wasn't nominated for Anastasia. I would love it if they still had great shows in them but they seem to be going a more commercial route. 

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is making money so no one will learn any lessons about taking a commercial property and making something with questionable artistic merit. 

I hope The Little Foxes encourages more dynamic revivals of plays. I don't know if anyone will try the role swapping anytime soon.

Amelie will likely join Tuck Everlasting in the bin of forgotten shows that aren't remembered with the fervor of a real cult fan base. Just pleasant efforts that didn't live up to their potential.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 12:07pm

While not necessarily merited artistically, I think we'll see a lot more of Anastasia, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, A Bronx Tale, and Groundhog Day than DEH, CFA, and Great Comet in regional, community, college, and HS theater in the years to come. Obviously that's only a small part of a legacy but I'm just saying

[PaulWom]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 1:07pm

 

I honestly think that Comet is ahead of its time, much in the way SITPWG, Sweeney, and Scottsboro Boys were, for example. I find the storyline , and the way music relates to it, incredibly moving - and I know a lot of others do as well. I have a feeling in a few years, we'll be talking about Comet in the same terms.  

P.S. "Stop bashing on DEH, Comet fans!" Says the poster who then immediately proceeds to bash Comet's storyline.

Honestly, I have my own problems with DEH, but I don't spend all day bashing it. I think DEH fans have confused "debate" with complete and total adoration.

 

 

 

[coreman009]

Posted: 6/16/17 at 1:07pm

The season as a whole I believe will be remembered as one of the best season's in Broadway history. There were shows not nominated for the Best Musical Tony that could've won it in other years (Bandstand and the 4 nominees are far superior to Memphis or Kinky Boots).

 

--Dear Evan Hansen: This will have the best legacy for sure. Not only will Ben Platt's performance be remembered as one of the best performances of all-time, it'll catapult him into stardom. The show itself will be remembered for its genius score and its powerful themes.

--Come From Away: This should be remembered very well, as an original way to tell a story and the brilliant casting of all types, including older and heavier than most Broadway casts. 

--The Great Comet: This will likely be remembered only for the excellent staging/lighting. People will point to this show as reasoning for trying outside-the-box environmental theater. But the score and book won't be memorable for sure. 

--Groundhog Day: Unfortunately it won't have as good of a legacy as it should, because it was swept at the Tonys and Andy Karl's ACL warrants attention. The comedy, the staging, and the catchy score made for an excellent show, but it will just blend it with other movies-turned-musicals.

--Bandstand: Depends if there's a box office bump after the Tonys. But it'll be remembered for the star turn of Corey Cott and the legitimacy of Laura Osnes as a star, both have solidified themselves as powerful leads. There's a chance the story of veterans resonates moving forward. 

--Anastasia, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and A Bronx Tale: Only remembered as fun movies-turned-musicals that weren't all that good but were still fun to see.

--In Transit: Remembered for the a capella angle and as a show that never reached its audience due to poor marketing.

--War Paint: LuPone. Ebersole. That's it.