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Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?

Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?

Soaring29 Profile Photo
Soaring29
#1Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/28/17 at 5:44am

The song Maybe This Time, as we all know, was added  to the 1972 film version of Cabaret and then added to subsequent productions.  The purpose of the song was to show Sally's sense of happiness and self worth at finally having a meaningful relationship.  And Liza's vocals/acting reflected that. 

Nowadays, the song has become the most dramatic,  belt your face off  number where the song generally   reads to me as this: A person who knows  that their relationship/situation won't work out , but their strength and hopes are convincing them that it will and they will fight like hell for it, even though it's inevitable that it won't in the end, making the person a sympathetic victim of fate. To me, the song is really about  the newly awakened feelings of love and self worth that one feels when finding what feels like true love for the first time. Obviously, it's all subjective and every performer can interpret however they want to and that's a good thing, but it's taken me aback how much the song has become a belt face your face off number about  someone fighting not to be a victim and to find happiness when that wasn't the original purpose of the song at all.  And pretty much nobody sings/acts  it the way it was intended to be, making me wish that more  people would  go back  and see the film. 

What do you guys think? 

 

 

g.d.e.l.g.i. Profile Photo
g.d.e.l.g.i.
#2Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/28/17 at 9:33am

Well, for starters, it's important to note that "Maybe This Time" wasn't initially written for Cabaret at all. It was originally written in 1964 for a different purpose, and seems to have gained its primary notice prior to its inclusion in Cabaret as a song in Liza Minnelli's act, appearing first on her debut album Liza! Liza! in 1964 and in a similar arrangement on her 1970 album New Feelin', though of course it only took off as a pop standard after she performed it in Cabaret.

So the first thing to consider is that the song may lend itself so well to multiple interpretations because it wasn't first written for a story, but as a standalone song. There's a reason critics have called it everything from a "soaring ballad" (Lincolnshire Review) and "hopeful" (Peterborough Telegraph) to "wistful" (NY Daily News) and "heartbreaking" (Niagara Falls Review). It all depends on the context in which it has been placed in the show.

The second thing to consider is that the movie and the stage musical are telling two very different stories of Cliff (Brian in the movie) and Sally's relationship. The song (when it is used in a stage production, which is not always the case) therefore does a different job of storytelling depending on the relationship being portrayed. In the movie, maybe she actually believes she's in love for the first time, but in the stage show, she's up one moment and down the next, a likely candidate for manic depression, and it's easy to believe that the song's air of hope is grounded in desperation and that she is not a frivolous girl but someone teetering on the edge of despair, wishing that this time her love affair is going to last.


Formerly gvendo2005
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joined: 5/1/05

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Updated On: 5/28/17 at 09:33 AM

Valentina3 Profile Photo
Valentina3
#3Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/28/17 at 11:01am

In a concert setting, which is where "Maybe This Time" is typically belted by Kristin and Audra - I'd honestly be bored if it were not belted. Plus they do a fierce job of adding the character's hope and desperation because they are really good performers.

I saw the touring cast (with Leigh Ann Larkin) and Broadway with Emma Stone - and neither of them belted the song. Emma because she probably couldn't, but Leigh because I think she knows how the song is supposed to be within the context of the show. Her take seems mellow, lovey dovey, but deeply skeptical of her own ability to make the relationship last. It worked for me.


Caption: Every so often there was a rare moment of perfect balance when I soared above him.

CallMeAl2 Profile Photo
CallMeAl2
#4Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/28/17 at 11:39am

All good comments about context - basically Kander & Ebb wrote a song that means different things depending on the situation.

I will just add one more note on context, and that is I think your analysis of Sally's feelings in the movie are right on - this is unrestrained happiness that Liza is bringing to the interpretation.

However, Fosse is saying something different. He cuts the song into short scenes with the the couple, and Brian is happy, but not nearly so sure of himself as Sally. He also cuts to patrons in the cabaret who have "seen it all" and are not all that moved by Sally's exuberance - as well as a shot of the M.C. - always a symbol of cynicism. So, while Liza/Sally is over the moon, Fosse is telling you "it ain't necessarily so" - she's fooling herself. That's the film's subtext - but not the actor's subtext.

Which brings me to this - I think what you are detecting (and I have certainly seen it myself) is that the interpretation has evolved into pulling the film's subtext into the performance of the song. On stage and in clubs if the singer wants that emotional ambiguity then they are going to have to do it themselves in the acting. And it's the happiness tinged with resignation/sadness that we remember experiencing in the movie theater. That also makes the song more interesting to act - doing Liza's film interpretation doesn't give the performer a whole lot of colors to play with.

But I think you rightly point out that there are times, especially in the context of the play, where that may be exactly the way to play it IF you have a director that is able to add the counterpoint emotions through different means. 

 

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 11:39 AM

helvizz Profile Photo
helvizz
#5Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/28/17 at 9:58pm

Not one of the 3 ladies who were Sally in the latest revival belted the song. Along with what you've written, maybe this has to do with the direction - this 2014 revival was a copy of the 1998 revival, which was directed by Sam Mendes. He drastically changed the direction of the show, specially because of his Sally, Natasha Richardson, who was not a good singer at all (even worse of a singer when compared to Liza Minelli, the image of Sally most people have and would compare her to). So he tried a new approach: he made Sally a terrible singer, a horrible performer. She's in complete denial about everything, including her abilities as an artist. You can check her performance of the song in the 1998 cast recording, of course. While there's some belting, I wouldn't call it a 'belt your face off number'; at times she sings the song very sweetly. Well, the critics loved her, as did the Tony committee, giving her the award for Best Actress.

 

Since then, many productions have copied this way of doing Sally - and the 2014 revival did the same, although I wouldn't really say 'copy' since it was the same director; it was the revival of a revival. They already copy the ending, why not use a Tony-winning portrayal too? All productions of Cabaret I've seen have taken this approach, and I think this could be why, at least partially.

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 09:58 PM

CallMeAl2 Profile Photo
CallMeAl2
#6Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 12:13am

helvizz said: "...Natasha Richardson, who was not a good singer at all (even worse of a singer when compared to Liza Minelli, the image of Sally most people have and would compare her to). So he tried a new approach: he made Sally a terrible singer, a horrible performer. She's in complete denial about everything, including her abilities as an artist..."

That (Richardson) is actually the correct interpretation and points to the huge flaw in the film - Liza/Sally actually would be discovered and become a film star - she was so insanely talented. There was no delusion there. Sally has to be a second rate performer for the story to make sense. Yes, it's more entertaining to have a star singer in the role, but it makes a porridge of the drama.

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#7Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 12:55am

CallMeAl2 said: "That (Richardson) is actually the correct interpretation and points to the huge flaw in the film - Liza/Sally actually would be discovered and become a film star - she was so insanely talented. There was no delusion there. Sally has to be a second rate performer for the story to make sense. Yes, it's more entertaining to have a star singer in the role, but it makes a porridge of the drama.

 

"

It's nice to have Hal Prince finally posting on this board. (Seriously, I'm not saying your interpretation isn't original to you, CallMe, but it's what Hal has been saying since 1966. And why he wouldn't cast Liza Minnelli in the OBC.)

Hal, at least, has a tendency to fall prey to spells of literalism, in which he forgets that musical theater logic is not the same as naturalistic logic. See, to take his second most famous example, his complaints about the title number in Hello, Dolly! Basically, he says Dolly lives hand-to-mouth and has never been able to afford the Harmonia Gardens in her life. There's no way she is well-known there and welcomed back by the entire staff.

He's probably right in the case of Dolly and perhaps right in the case of Sally. But in both cases he ignores the fact that musical theater (especially comedy) creates its own conventions of logic. He should read Samuel Coleridge on the "willing suspension of disbelief". Audiences understand it instinctively: they know that Dolly is played by a star and whatever the demands of realism, they aren't the least surprised that everyone on stage is thrilled to welcome Carol Channing, Pearl Bailey or Bette Midler "back where she belongs"! The reports of mid-act standing ovations in the current revival suggest audiences are putting themselves in the place of Harmonia Gardens patrons--and that is exactly how it should be. Even when Dolly isn't played by an actual star, everyone knows it's the star part and accepts her return to the Gardens on those terms.

Now back to Sally: making her a bad singer is (1) boring; and (2) an offense to my ears. I still have PTSD from watching and hearing a video of Jane Horrocks screech her way through the title song. What is far more interesting (and easier on the ear) is making Sally a GREAT singer, but one who is stuck working in a dive because she sabotages her career just as she sabotages her relationships. That is the Sally of Fosse's movie and a personality type I've met many times in New York and Los Angeles.

ETA: How do you know Sally would become a huge film star? You can't tell that from a stage performance, as Ethel Merman and Mary Martin could have told you. In my remarks above, I was assuming Sally has the talent to become a star of stage and recordings.

Updated On: 5/29/17 at 12:55 AM

Mr. Nowack Profile Photo
Mr. Nowack
#8Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 1:44am

What is far more interesting (and easier on the ear) is making Sally a GREAT singer, but one who is stuck working in a dive because she sabotages her career just as she sabotages her relationships.

This is really the way Andrea Gross played her on the recent national tour. And it was amazing!


Keeping BroadwayWorld Illustrated

CallMeAl2 Profile Photo
CallMeAl2
#9Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 1:47am

I mentioned being a film star simply because that was Sally's stated ambition. I am saying that there is nothing keeping her from achieving that goal.

Look, if you enjoy Liza in Cabaret ("So do I", to quote a famous line from the film) that's what matters. If it works, then that's what counts. All I can say is that as much as I love seeing Liza in that part, she still comes at a cost to the drama. I have been saying that since 1972, and I still think Fosse overplayed his hand in creating rocko-socko numbers for that dingy little Berlin nightclub. If the entertainment value were really that high at the Kit Kat Club, then it would be the most exclusive club in town.

Funny, you mention Dolly because I was going to use that as a second example - though it was the film I had in mind. It's great to hear Streisand sing those songs, and she is by far the most entertaining thing in the movie. But the 20th Century Fox Hello, Dolly is a farce with no engine because there are no stakes at risk for Barbra's (and Gene Kelley's) interpretation of the character. Not only do you have the issue Hal Prince identified (where did she get all those beautiful gowns? The private horse-drawn carriage?), but she is a young, independent woman who can do what she wants and gets whatever she wants. There is no drama there. Now, Dolly gets by because it is not really a drama, and we are primarily there to see the singing and dancing.

Not so with CabaretCabaret wants to be taken seriously. If that is the standard then either the Kit Kat is the pinnacle of Berlin night life, or Liza is miscast and Fosse is indulgently showing off his choreographic skills. But, that's just my opinion.  (And Hal Prince's, apparently - but don't let that sway you.)

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#10Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 2:46am

The point we should take from Sally's talk about film stardom is that she does nothing to achieve it except f**k any man who wanders into the club and claims to have "connections". She doesn't even live in a country where she speaks the language! Perhaps my knowledge of film history is lacking (quite possible), but while a few Middle European women with limited English (Marlene Dietrich, Hedy Lamarr) became stars in the enormous Hollywood studio system, if Sally thinks she's going to become a film star in the relatively small German film industry, that is precisely the sort of self-delusion that is her specialty. Why isn't she in London or LA?

I hope it was clear I didn't mean to accuse you of plagiarism. I believe that you had the reaction you did in 1972. It's just a very famous Hal Prince story, however, so you might as well find out how often it has been told.

Now as for dramatic action: a Sally who can't sing is merely unfortunate. She is precisely equivalent to a Sally hit by a train or buried in an avalanche. Sad, but not dramatic.

A Sally who craves stardom and has the talent, but struggles to succeed is dramatic. That she sabotages herself makes her tragic.

But while we're on the subject, Annie Oakley didn't sing like Ethel Merman; Peter Pan isn't a grown woman; Magnolia doesn't have the training to sing "After the Ball"; it's unlikely your average, unemployed carnival barker could sing "Soliloquy". And if Sally is too talented for the Kit Kat, what of the Emcee? When it comes to song and dance, Joel Grey is no slouch (nor were many of the Emcees of the revival). Audiences of musical theater know that the talent of the performer has little to do with the abilities of the character.

A Director
#11Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 3:41am

When Christopher Isherwood saw Cabaret, the movie, he said Liza was miscast.

IMO, of course, it is important to cast someone as Sally who can sing.  On the other hand, I would cast not an singer who act, but an actor who sings.  Liza was wrong for Sally; Jill Hayworth and Natasha Richardson were right as Sally.

IMO, belting is overrated!

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#12Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 4:28am

Before she calcified into caricature, Liza was very much an actress who sang. See  Sterile Cuckoo and Junie Moon. It was her mother who had the one-in-a-billion set of pipes (while being a fine actress in her own right).

Perhaps we're talking about charisma here, not sheer singing ability. Maybe ya'll just want somebody in that part who isn't a star (though I think that would disqualify Richardson).

(As for Isherwood, he is the last person I'd consider authoritative. I get it: HIS Sally Bowles can't sing. But we're a long way from his Sally by the time we get to Fosse's film.)

ETA Haworth belts all her songs in Cabaret. What do you think belting is?

Updated On: 5/29/17 at 04:28 AM

rosscoe(au) Profile Photo
rosscoe(au)
#13Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 6:33am

Mr. Nowack said: "What is far more interesting (and easier on the ear) is making Sally a GREAT singer, but one who is stuck working in a dive because she sabotages her career just as she sabotages her relationships.

This is really the way Andrea Gross played her on the recent national tour. And it was amazing!


 

"

Ms Gross was outstanding 


Well I didn't want to get into it, but he's a Satanist. Every full moon he sacrifices 4 puppies to the Dark Lord and smears their blood on his paino. This should help you understand the score for Wicked a little bit more. Tazber's: Reply to Is Stephen Schwartz a Practicing Christian

imeldasturn Profile Photo
imeldasturn
#14Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 8:47am

John Kander said that Judi Dench is his favourite Sally, go listen the London cast recording and do your math.

Updated On: 5/29/17 at 08:47 AM

Smaxie Profile Photo
Smaxie
#15Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/29/17 at 9:25am

>This is really the way Andrea Gross played her on the recent national tour. And it was amazing!<

It's Andrea Goss. 


Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#16Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 2:18am

imeldasturn said: "John Kander said that Judi Dench is his favourite Sally, go listen the London cast recording and do your math.

 

"

Like BWW posters (including myself at times), theater people tend to get carried away with their accolades. When it came time to record the "museum" recording of the entire score, Kander cast Dench as Fraulein Kost (or whatever her name is), not Sally Bowles. His Sally (Maria Friedman) sings just fine.

But I don't think anybody is saying a great actress like Dame Dench couldn't make a passable, even thrilling Sally. Dench can carry a tune and I have no doubt her acting compensated for any deficiencies. That hardly proves we need a screeching Sally or one who deliberately sings off-key.

Sally Durant Plummer Profile Photo
Sally Durant Plummer
#17Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 2:56am

Darling Gaveston, while Miss Dench did record the entire score as Fräulein Schneider in the 90s, she WAS the original Sally Bowles in London (196Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted? . The recording of her is quite thrilling - here's her rendition of the title song:

Cabaret

Personally, I think she's wonderful (on record, at least), though I do love Richardson and Haworth.


"Sticks and stones, sister. Here, have a Valium." - Patti LuPone, a Memoir

Sally Durant Plummer Profile Photo
Sally Durant Plummer
#18Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 2:58am

Here's her rehearsing the role:

Judi Dench in Cabaret

And a bootleg of "Don't Tell Mama" in rehearsal and on stage:

Don't Tell Mama


"Sticks and stones, sister. Here, have a Valium." - Patti LuPone, a Memoir
Updated On: 5/30/17 at 02:58 AM

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#19Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 3:31am

Thank you, Sally, for the links and the correction of the Fraulein's name.

My point wasn't whether Judi Dench made a thrilling Sally Bowles; I'm sure she did. And I very much enjoy the clips. (I forget we can get such things from YouTube these days.)

But I would equate Dench-in-a-musical with someone like Barbara Harris, whom I love on recordings and in films. Not Barbara Cook, but not the horror show that was Horrocks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw-CdMSJNPM

I haven't seen the Sam Mendes remake, but that clip is what I think of when people start talking about how Sally Bowles has to be a third-rate singer. There are plenty of excellent singers who never get beyond the chorus or even their community theater. But even if you think a real Berlin nightclub singer would be inferior, why should we demand verisimilitude from Sally Bowles that we don't demand from the Emcee or countless other musical characters? Particularly when a talented Sally is ultimately more interesting than an untalented one.

Updated On: 5/30/17 at 03:31 AM

imeldasturn Profile Photo
imeldasturn
#20Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 3:32am

When it came time to record the "museum" recording of the entire score, Kander cast Dench as Fraulein Kost (or whatever her name is), not Sally Bowles. His Sally (Maria Friedman) sings just 

In 1999 Judi Dench was 65, a bit too old for Sally, don't you think?

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#21Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 3:42am

^^^^ Live or on film, yes. For a recording, I'm not sure. She sounded pretty mature back in the 1960s.

Anyway, I want to add that I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Beginning with the OP and without exception, every poster has had something intelligent and articulate to add to the discussion. Since I'm not in New York and not concerned with obtaining tickets, threads like these are the reason I come to BWW.com.

A Director
#22Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 3:59am

GavestonPS -  This is an article from 2014. https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/oct/27/how-we-made-cabaret-judi-dench-john-kander

Yes, the actor who plays Sally needs to carry a tune, but she does not need to be a great singer.  Judi Dench can carry a tune, but she is not a great singer.

By the way, Judi Dench was cast as Grizabella in CATS, but had with withdrew before opening because of a torn Achilles Tendon.

If Liza is your Gold Standard Sally, well bless your little heart.

Soaring29 Profile Photo
Soaring29
#23Has Maybe This Time Been Misinterpreted?
Posted: 5/30/17 at 7:37am

Yeah, there are plenty of talented singers who don't get work- It's a tough, tough business and Sally talks a lot about her aspirations,  but it seems to me that she is enjoying the life  she has and feels no real drive to get out of her situation. The Kit Kat Club may be seedy, but I'd think there are definitely clubs out there that have strong talent, but aren't necessarily the pinnacle of the community, although the Kit Kat club seems fairly popular.