Deaths, injuries after reports of explosion at Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena

[Jane2]

My opinion is that mental illness will always be with us. Perhaps one day we will have enough information about the brain and how it works but until then, there's no way to stop it. Medication helps some people - that is if they actually take it, but there's a huge number of mentally ill who refuse to take medication.

For those who believe a person doesn't have to be mentally ill to commit these acts -well, being angry enough will suffice.

[Mister Matt]

Removing religion will not remove monstrous ideology; it will simply cause people to find another way to justify it. 

In many cases, they already do.  We already have racism and homophobia, neither of which are always blamed on religion.  When high school teens were beating Paul Broussard to death in Houston, it wasn't because they believed they were being Christian or spouting scripture or indoctrinated to literally kill gays.  Columbine wasn't an attack based in religion.  Neither was the Dark Knight shooting in Aurora.  To say that religion itself is responsible directly conflicts with saying something like "not all Muslims are terrorists".  That already disproves the notion that eradicating religion will eradicate these types of terrorist attacks.  It's not JUST about the religion.  

[PalJoey]

 

...there's a huge number of mentally ill who refuse to take medication.

 

You mean, like qolbinau?

 

[Liza's Headband]

Mister Matt - you're quick to snap at those on here suggesting ideas for eradicating this monstrous perversion of a religion, but fail to offer any substantive solutions in their place.

HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT CLAMPING THIS NEVER-ENDING VIOLENCE AND TERRORISM???? 

[Mister Matt]

I WOULD SIT ATOP MY MAGIC UNICORN AND WISH UPON A STAR WHILE CLASPING MY FOUR-LEAF CLOVER WITH THE HOPES THAT EVERYONE WOULD SIMPLY DO THINGS MY WAY, USING A COMBINATION OF BOLD AND CAPS LOCK AND ITALICS, SEEING THAT I AM A SUPERIOR PERSON DEVOID OF HYPOCRISY AND PERSONAL FRIENDS WITH EACH AND EVERY CARE BEAR, ATHEISTS FOR GLOBAL PEACE AND HARMONY AMONG SINGLE-MINDED HUMANS WITH NO FREE WILL OR THOUGHT.



Make your demands elsewhere, Headache.

[CarlosAlberto]

As usual the "cray" around here is vastly entertaining. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[madbrian]

Yet another BWW thread goes so far off-track it's barely recognizable.  Meanwhile, the incredible resilience and fortitude of the people of Manchester goes unnoticed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/manchester-man-they-want-us-to-turn-on-our-neighbors-and-it-will-never-happen_us_5925a047e4b0ec129d316699?63e&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

[kdogg36]

PalJoey said: "You mean, like qolbinau?"

What has he said that's so unhinged?

[Dave28282]

Mister Matt said: "Eradicating religion is about as feasible as sending the Care Bears to launch a rainbow attack from their bellies and if you've been paying attention, attempts to do so will lead to more extremism and violence.
 
First of all, you're attempting to police thought to conform to your ideology, which is not only immensely hypocritical, it's impossible.  The existence of so many religions, each one claiming to be the correct and true religion, is proof of that.  "


Actually, Qolbinau's post was about the opposite. About not playing thought police, but teach children beyond that. How to think, not what to think. And yes, hopefully that will eradicate religion by itself eventually. The fact that religious people mistakenly think it's their identity and display violence when it is questioned and that you feel threatened about that is not the point here.

Read the points again:

* Acknowledging the reality of the role of religious beliefs on negative behaviours, attitudes and public policy (the victims are often people in minority groups, such as gay people and women).

* Discouraging the indoctrination of Children to hold religious beliefs and identifies (as Dave pointed out this is a major, major issue). Why do we assume that it is ok for there to be such thing as a "Muslim child" or a "Christian child" - have you ever heard of a Marxist child? Or a Socialist child? It's just bizarre.

* Removing public funding to religious organisations, schools etc. and removing tax breaks for religious organisations

* Acknowledging that not all religions are equal and 'sacred'. Different religious beliefs have more intellectual or moral merit than others - different religious beliefs cause different outcomes. To put all religions in the same basket to be equal and protected as we so often do is absurd

* Introduce compulsory critical thinking classes in schools - teach people the structure of an argument the characteristics of good and bad argumentation. The main goal is teaching people how to think not what to think.

* Introduce compulsory wide religious education in schools - all children should learn about all different kinds of religions and religious beliefs without bias or spin. In an objective historical way

* Ensure Science classes are taught accurately and are compulsory in all schools, particularly biology

* Make sure all ideas, including religious ideas, can be challenged openly and discussed openly without accusing people of being racist, bigoted, 'stupid' (this is the most hilarious idea) or subject to violence

Given we aren't still praying to the greek gods, I'm pretty confident that there will be a time where religious beliefs will become a fringe of society. We will never, ever get there though if people don't speak openly and critically about religion.

[Dave28282]

Jane2 said: "My opinion is that mental illness will always be with us. Perhaps one day we will have enough information about the brain and how it works but until then, there's no way to stop it. Medication helps some people - that is if they actually take it, but there's a huge number of mentally ill who refuse to take medication.
"

There is no medication for indoctrination.

[kdogg36]

Given that the U.K.'s population is 65 million, that means that the chance of being killed by a terrorist between 2000 and 2015 was less than 1 in 700,000. For perspective, in those same 15 years 42,000 Britons died in automobile accidents. Indeed, more Britons die annually from drowning in their bathtubs.

...[w]ith risks this low, those of us who live in western democracies should continue to forthrightly live our lives as though terrorism doesn't exist. We ultimately vanquish terrorism when we refuse to be terrorized.

Don't Be Terrorized

[Mister Matt]

Actually, Qolbinau's post was about the opposite. About not playing thought police, but teach children beyond that.

Eradication of religion IS playing thought police.  The first bullet point alone is a subjective slant on the subject.  And it makes the assumption that should people learn what the author wants them to learn, then they will desire the same goals of the author, because only the author's viewpoint is considered valid.  To say that if people only objectively knew the truth about religion, they would refuse to subscribe to one.  All the educated religious people out there disprove that theory, which is only based on the assumption and supposition fueled by the opinion of the author.  So yes, the theory, which tosses a bone to an idea of objectivity and education, is really about indoctrinating people with their atheism in order to achieve their personal goal of guiding others away from religion as a personal choice.  

The fact that religious people mistakenly think it's their identity and display violence when it is questioned and that you feel threatened about that is not the point here.

You really need to climb out of that identity rut you're in.  I've never felt threatened by the one-size-fits-all answer you keep peddling.  

[Jane2]

"There is no medication for indoctrination".

I guess not, and that's a shame

[PalJoey]

 
This is a very classy things to do, Ariana.

 

===
 

Ariana Grande reportedly offers to pay for Manchester explosion victims' funerals

 

Ariana Grande reportedly offers to pay for Manchester explosion victims' funerals

22 people died at her concert on Monday night

 

In the search for some humanity amid this tragic situation, reports of Ariana Grande apparently having reached out to the families of victims of the Manchester Arena attack have been seized upon by grieving fans.

A Twitter account devoted to the singer, Ariana Updates!, tweeted: "News on Ariana: Ariana has reached out to the families who's loves ones died last night....she is gonna pay for the funerals!'" (sic).

The post has been retweeted 32,000 times and favourited 72,000 times at the time of writing, and is now being widely reported.

We've been trying to get hold of a representative for Grande to clarify whether Ariana did indeed reach out to the families and will update this story as and when they respond.

 

 

Ariana Updates! @ArianaDailyWW

News on Ariana: Ariana has reached out to the families who's loves ones died last night....she is gonna pay for the funerals!

7:17 PM - 23 May 2017

 

A suicide bomber killed 22 people and left 119 injured at Grande's concert on Monday night. The rest of her world tour has been either postponed or cancelled.

"Broken," the singer tweeted after the concert. "From the bottom of my heart, I am so so sorry. I don't have words."

Out of respect for the victims, other acts including Blondie and Take That cancelled their planned UK concerts this week.

The UK terror threat has been raised to critical in the wake of the Manchester suicide bombing attack amid fears attacker Salman Abedi did not act alone.

Thousands of soldiers are set to bolster police forces after Theresa May raised the threat level to the highest possible rating, meaning another atrocity is expected imminently.

 

 

[Dave28282]

Matt, I believe that as soon as someone thinks their religion is their identity, that means a disconnect from reality that can't be overcome. Of course those people disagree. The assumption we make is that it's better to look at things from more sides in order to make a conclusion and that that is a good idea for everybody. And if everyone would understand that, it might end religion over time and that would be a good thing. 

The threat remark was about you saying: "and if you've been paying attention, attempts to do so will lead to more extremism and violence." On which I replied that that is a pity, but not the point here.

The solutions lie in upbringing, teaching and all the points Qolbinau mentions.

[wonderfulwizard11]

PJ, while I agree that's a lovely story, it hasn't been confirmed by either Grande or her reps. It's just a fan Twitter account who very easily could have made the whole thing up. 

[Jane2]

Indoctrination seems to be the big topic here, and the reason for violence. Well, I find it hard to believe that when people join this religion, and are seemingly indoctrinated to believe that they must kill all non believers, that there aren't those who see the insanity in doing so. Hence, I maintain that the ones who do choose to obey that tenet, are demented/mental.

[Kad]

So... the cure for extremist religious indoctrination is just counter-indoctrination of an ideology that you deem acceptable. Got it.

Amazing that in the entire history of mankind, no one else ever thought of this and tried to carry it out!

[kdogg36]

Kad said: "So... the cure for extremist religious indoctrination is just counter-indoctrination of an ideology that you deem acceptable. Got it."

What I'm hearing is opposition to indoctrination in general. That's certainly my position.

[Mister Matt]

Matt, I believe that as soon as someone thinks their religion is their identity, that means a disconnect from reality that can't be overcome.

I personally know priests, pastors and scholars that disprove that theory.  It's entirely possibly to think critically and objectively and maintain a religious identity, especially when you already acknowledge that religion is faith-based.

Of course those people disagree. The assumption we make is that it's better to look at things from more sides in order to make a conclusion and that that is a good idea for everybody. And if everyone would understand that, it might end religion over time and that would be a good thing. 

And that is indoctrinating people to your opinion.

The threat remark was about you saying: "and if you've been paying attention, attempts to do so will lead to more extremism and violence." On which I replied that that is a pity, but not the point here.

I was saying that extremists are threatened by attacks on their religion and respond with violence.  

The solutions lie in upbringing, teaching and all the points Qolbinau mentions.

Well, only the views you deem acceptable to teach, based on assumption and supposition, which doesn't really make allowances for individuality or state of mind, both of which can lead to any number of choices and behaviors having nothing to do with religion or upbringing.  The theory is "the more you know" and many already know more and still choose the opposite of what you want.  

[Kad]

But it's still going toward "everyone should think for themselves... so they won't think a certain way."

[Liza's Headband]

Religion is fine. It's the perversion and radicalization of religion that is the issue. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Liza's Headband said: "Religion is fine. It's the perversion and radicalization of religion that is the issue. 

 

More truth was said in that one sentence written by Liza than in the long-winded laborious, self righteous and empty headed essays some of you feel the need subject us to.

Some of you need to step away from your damn keyboards.

[javero]

(Washington Examiner) UK slams US for 'irritating' leaks on Manchester terror attack

U.K. home minister warned the United States on Wednesday for leaking information regarding the terror attack in Manchester, England, and made it clear "it shouldn't happen again."

"The British police have been very clear they want to control the flow of information in order to protect operational integrity - the element of surprise - so it is irritating if it gets released from other sources," Home Secretary Amber Rudd said. "[A]nd I've been very clear with our friends that that should not happen again."

More at the link above...

[Dave28282]

Jane2 said: "Indoctrination seems to be the big topic here, and the reason for violence. Well, I find it hard to believe that when people join this religion, and are seemingly indoctrinated to believe that they must kill all non believers, that there aren't those who see the insanity in doing so. Hence, I maintain that the ones who do choose to obey that tenet, are demented/mental."

Lina Ahmed, 21, told MailOnline: ‘They are a Libyan Muslim family and they have been acting strangely. A couple of months ago he [Salman] was chanting the first kalma [Islamic prayer] really loudly in the street. He was chanting in Arabic.

‘He was saying ‘There is only one God and the prophet Mohammed is his messenger’.’

It seems that if someone is convinced that his god is his guide, the line of sanity/insanity easily disappears.

[javero]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.