Is Dolly Too Frivolous

BWAY Baby2
#1Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:03am

Friends of mine were complaining that Bette will make Dolly too broad - almost a caricature- of a real person. I agree- and am glad. Hello, Dolly has never been one of my favorite musicals- though I saw it with Channing in one of her revivals years ago. I like a musical with some heft, some emotional weight, a love story or exploration of a subject in a serious way. Hello, Dolly is not this. I think Dolly will be perfect for Midler- and was for Streisand too, though too young for the role- and why I do have my third row center seats for April. Is Dolly really anyones favorite musical just in terms of book, music and character development?

After Eight
#2Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:17am

"Hello, Dolly has never been one of my favorite musicals- though I saw it with Channing in one of her revivals years ago."

Then I suggest that you not go this time.

"I like a musical with some heft, some emotional weight, a love story or exploration of a subject in a serious way."

Goody gumdrops.

"Hello, Dolly is not this."

Then don't go to see it.

"Is Dolly really anyones favorite musical just in terms of book, music and character development?"

Yes.

 

Mildred Plotka Profile Photo
Mildred Plotka
#3Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:18am

It's one of my favorites. I'm as excited for a first-class revival as I am for Ms. Midler (who is more than capable of crating a 3 dimensional character).  I think there's plenty of there there in Dolly.  Especially for people entering a new phase in their lives or trying to move on from a closed chapter.  No, it's not August Osage County but even the lightest of musicals (which this is not) are capable of resonating with an audience in a profound way.    I'm a huge fan of the score and the book is pretty perfect.  


"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

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binau
#4Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:23am

We don't need to feel like wanting to kill ourselves after a musical for it to be enjoyable, in my opinion! Looking forward to a fun night of light comedy. 


"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022) "Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009) "Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000

BWAY Baby2
#5Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:37am

I love this board- the bitchiness is unparalleled.  Funny. Anyway, I am seeing it in April- and looking forward to it though it is not one of my favorite musicals- but Bette is one of my favorite performers. If the new Dolly were not one of my favorite performers, I would miss it. It is true, I prefer a musical like Hamilton, In The Heights, Light In The Piazza West Side Story- to name a few of my all-time favorites- but Dolly will be just fined, thank you very much. Just wanted to see if other people shared my perception. So bring on the insults and disrespectful reactions to my post- and then go vote for Trump.

Mildred Plotka Profile Photo
Mildred Plotka
#6Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:44am

So opinions that you don't agree with are unparalleled bitchiness?  Feels like you started this thread just to get a reaction.


"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

After Eight
#7Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:48am

"I love this board- the bitchiness is unparalleled."

Such as your own?

" Funny. Anyway, I am seeing it in April- and looking forward to it though it is not one of my favorite musicals-"

Odd that you're looking forward to it, then.

" If the new Dolly were not one of my favorite performers, I would miss it."

It wouldn't miss you.

"It is true, I prefer a musical like Hamilton, In The Heights, Light In The Piazza West Side Story- to name a few of my all-time favorites- but Dolly will be just fined,"

Fined how much? And for what? Being a musical with good music? Being a musical that people enjoy?

"Just wanted to see if other people shared my perception."

What perception?

 

Mildred Plotka Profile Photo
Mildred Plotka
#8Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:53am

Take it from an expert on unparalleled bitchiness. 


"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"

Jed2
#9Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 8:54am

I have been lucky to see Ms Midler in concert a few times and she can be completely over the top one second and then have you crying your heart out with raw emotion the next. If this show is even slightly like that it will be a magical evening. Just go and see it for what it is - Bette Midler, on Broadway doing Hello Dolly ... As you say, you are looking forward to it so I am not sure how much analysis from your friends is needed of that!

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 08:54 AM

Stage Door Sally Profile Photo
Stage Door Sally
#10Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 9:55am

There is depth to Hello, Dolly! The plot revolves around two women struggling to survive financially after the loss of their husbands.

 
Dolly Gallagher Levi and Irene Molloy are widows. Both face tough economic times. This was an era when "good" women did not work for a living, yet both have to in order to survive. For Irene, things are so bad she seeks the services of a matchmaker in order to "marry up" financially. She's so desperate, she's even willing to entertain the likes of the pompous toot of a suitor Horace Vandergelder who brings her chocolate covered peanuts, unshelled, the expensive kind. She's not attracted to him, but until Cornelius comes along, she'd have married him for his money.
 
Dolly is even sadder. She had a wonderful marriage to Ephraim. She lived the high life in New York society and loved it. Now she is skulking around in Yonkers, attempting to lure a grouchy half-a-millionaire to rescue her. Unlike Irene, Dolly has no practical skills to put to use to earn a living, so she re-invents herself as a jane of all trades — wannabe. Her desperation is especially apparent when she talks to her late husband, asking him for his blessing. Her showstopping song, Before the Parade Passes By, is a powerful affirmation that she is going to get back into life. It always makes me tear up a little.


I look forward to seeing how Bette plays this. It could be absolutely incredible.

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 09:55 AM

Oak2
#11Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:06am

People share all manner of tastes regarding media, and all are valid. You have expressed that you prefer darker and more "serious" works, which is fine. As a few people have pointed out, Hello Dolly is not as simple as many assume (I especially appreciate Stage Door Sally's analysis of it). However, even if you do take it as light fluff, there are indeed people who prefer that.

I personally enjoy my media to be more of a lighter and happier fare, and especially to have a happy ending. There's already enough darkness in the real world - I don't need more of that in my entertainment. With that said, I certainly appreciate darker, more serious, and more "intellectual" works, and there are plenty I enjoy, but when given the choice between two works, I'll most times choose the more upbeat work.

I sadly have never seen Hello Dolly on stage before (only recently got into this particular medium), and so I've only seen the movie version with Streisand recently, and enjoyed it. I have been told the stage version is superior to the movie, so I'm looking forward to seeing the stage version with Bette in May. I do love the music especially though, even before I actually saw it - my major exposure to its music (as well as that from Oklahoma and The Music Man) was in the background music to Main Street USA in Disney World - I love that music, and it eventually lead me to seek out the actual origins for the original vocal versions.

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LizzieCurry
#12Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:06am

BWAY Baby2 said: "Just wanted to see if other people shared my perception. So bring on the insults and disrespectful reactions to my post- and then go vote for Trump."

wtf


"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt

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carolineorchange21
#13Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:10am

"Ephraim, let me go. It's been long enough, Ephraim. Every evening for all these years I've put out the cat, I've locked the door, I've made myself a little rum toddy and before I went to bed I said a prayer thanking God that I was independent, that no--one else's life was mixed up with mine. Then one night an oak leaf fell out of my Bible. I placed it there when you asked me to marry you, Ephraim. A perfectly good oak leaf but without color and without life. And I suddenly realized that I was like that leaf.  For years I had not shed one tear nor had I been filled with the wonderful hope that something or other would turn out well. And so I've decided to rejoin the human race, and Ephraim, I want you to give me away...Before The Parade Passes By..."

This has always been my absolute favorite dialogue into a song. There is genuine emotion and fear in that monologue.


"...ah, gays and their wit. Hell must be a laugh a minute!" -Evie Harris
Updated On: 9/29/16 at 10:10 AM

Stage Door Sally Profile Photo
Stage Door Sally
#14Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:18am

My favorite too. Carol Channing did it beautifully.

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PalJoey
#15Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:24am

One might ask the same question of Noel Coward plays or Shakespeare's comedies or Aristophanes or Charlie Chaplin movies. There is a human truth to comedy that your question displays a lack of experience with. Your question is like asking "Is Love's Labour's Lost too frivolous?" or "Is Private Lives too frivolous?" or "Is Mickey Mouse too frivolous?"

Comedy and tragedy have existed side by side since storytelling first began. While it is easy to see the deeper ramifications of a tragic story, it takes a taste for humor and irony and metaphor--the ability to see beyond the humor to the comment being made on the human condition that underlies the humor. 

Getting back to Dolly, what Stage Door Sally said was spot on.Here's a clip of actress Pearl Bailey, who took over the role, as you may know, during the initial Broadway run with an all-black cast. Pearl imbues the monologue that carolineorchange posted above, which leads into "Before the Parade Passes By" with a level of emotionality that I predict will shock you, startle you, shake your foundation to the core and make your realize that it isn't "Hello, Dolly" that is lacking in "heft, emotional weight, or an exploration of a subject in a serious way"--on the contrary, it was your question that was shallow.

 

Okay, ready? Watch and respond below:

 

 

 

 


Updated On: 9/29/16 at 10:24 AM

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BakerWilliams
#16Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:30am

The Matchmaker is a lot better, but Hello, Dolly! is so much fun. And musical comedy cannot be too frivolous.


"In memory, everything happens to music"

BWAY Baby2
#17Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:33am

So interesting getting these perspectives on Hello, Dolly. It helps me see the depth in it.  Thank you.

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themysteriousgrowl
#18Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 10:35am

 

I agree that it’s a misguided and/or misphrased question. My tastes gravitate toward more overtly “serious” theater, which I would prefer to describe as theater that challenges me intellectually. That said, a number of not-so-challenging musicals are among my favorites. THE PAJAMA GAME, GUYS AND DOLLS, and DAMN YANKEES come immediately to mind. And there are a number of serious-minded and challenging musicals that, for whatever reason, I have no use for. I feel as dramatically unsatisfied by HELLO, DOLLY! as I do by FIDDLER ON THE ROOF – and unsatisfied in a similar way. I don’t think degree of frivolity (if we even accept the term, and PJ makes an eloquent case against it here) is a useful metric.


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Dancingthrulife2
#19Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 11:24am

I think the question can be rephrased as whether you treat theater as an entertainment or a form of expression. If both, which is more important to you. The conclusion we can all agree on is that there's more than one side of theater and that's probably why many of us are so into the hybrid form.

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 11:24 AM

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BroadwayConcierge
#20Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 11:25am

Options. Isn't it great that Broadway gives us plenty of 'em?

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lovebwy
#21Is Dolly Too FrivolousI
Posted: 9/29/16 at 11:32am

Frivolous? I coitenly hope so!

We need a little frivolity with all that's going on in the world. I would say this Dolly is arriving right on time to sooth us and make us forget our troubles for two-and-a-half hours.

Frivolous? Yes, I pray to Christ that it's frivolous! 

 

 

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henrikegerman
#22Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 11:32am

Is Dolly too frivolous?  First, of all, what's wrong with frivolous?   Secondly, all one has to do  - with due respect to Channing et al - is watch Pearl Bailey deciding to rejoin the human race to know that Dolly is not just frivol.  

The best Dollies are expert and subtly physical comediennes, committed to the character in all respects including epoch, have a soulful hunger for life, and an exquisite charm.    Is there any reason to think that Bette won't bring all of this to her?  None at all.  

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Sally Durant Plummer
#23Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 11:51am

"Hello, Dolly!" is letter perfect. Perfect in a way very few musicals are. I can only think of "She Loves Me", and "A Little Night Music" as other examples of sheer musical perfection.

As for frivolousness, it may be true Dolly is a broad comedy, but there's a very real emotional undercurrent. Dolly speaking to her Ephraim, her desire to return to the human race - that's real. How can you fails to be moved by Dolly's oak leaf monologue? Channing owns the role, it's true. But that doesn't mean Miss Midler will fail to bring new shadings and wonderful vocals to this perfect musical. In fact, as the first Dolly opening on Broadway besides Channing, I'm sure she'll be perfect as well.


"Sticks and stones, sister. Here, have a Valium." - Patti LuPone, a Memoir

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Stage Door Sally
#24Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 12:04pm

Thanks for posting that clip. PJ. I wonder why Pearl didn't include the lines about the oak leaf. Those few sentences are very powerful.

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 12:04 PM

sng
#25Is Dolly Too Frivolous
Posted: 9/29/16 at 12:24pm

that is the most ridiculous question I've ever heard. Hello, Dolly! is not frivolous. It is joyful. They are totally different meaning. How can one see a musical like Hello, Dolly! and not realise the message behind it is beyond my understanding especially in the posted monologue and Before the Parade Passes By.