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"Reviewing" first or very early previews

"Reviewing" first or very early previews

RaisedOnMusicals Profile Photo
RaisedOnMusicals
#1"Reviewing" first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 12:54pm

I have just finished reading Matt Windman's book The Critics Say:57 Theater Critics in NY and Beyond, so I post this feeling a bit more educated about theatrical criticism and related issues than I did before I read it. The book is long, but as the author himself says, it's written in a form that makes skipping around easy and intended. One of the issues that came up (in the context of Spider-Man primarily, was the review of early previews.

So this post is primarily intended for Whizzer, not in any way antagonistically but it a way to encourage discussion. The fact is that I look forward to his reviews. I find them on the level of many professional critics--thoughtful, well written and knowledgeable. And I recognize that unlike professional critics, he pays for his tickets and thus is completely within his rights to post anything he wants with respect to what he's seen. But the question I raise is should he?

Here is the issue: First previews (or very early previews) are often not the show that eventually opens, they are productions in a state of flux and have not been deemed ready to be reviewed by the producers who will schedule press previews once the show has been frozen. During the preview process, the director is our there taking extensive notes, and everything going on is being discussed among all the creatives and the producers. As a recent example, Whizzer reviewed the second preview of The Encounter, which he wrote was far too long and apparently there was agreement on this point as someone who saw the show recently mentioned it was down to 1:45 when he saw it.

As I see it, the "problem" is only a problem when a review of an early preview is negative. If the review is positive, it won't deter anyone from wanting to see it, but a poor review (again, to a work in progress) might well have the opposite effect. So is that right or fair. To me, it seems unfair. I think that the people who are putting on the show should have a right to have it reviewed when they deem it ready.

So my question is: should an effort be made to see the shows in previews during the press preview stage when the show has been frozen before these type of "civilian" reviews are posted, good as they may be?


CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.

10086sunset
#2"Reviewing" first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:00pm

I've found that you can tell whether a show is good or bad after a first preview...While it is likely to change to some extent, I find you can tell very early on if a show will pass the smell test...

A bad show will be bad on its first preview...It may become less bad but the odds are highly against it becoming good...

neonlightsxo
#3Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:01pm

There are no preview prices on Broadway. If they're going to charge us $145 (for example) for a preview, we have just as much right to talk about a show if we paid for it. Most shows do not indicate AT ALL at the box office or online the difference between a preview and a post opening show. We are under no obligation to them.

I say this as a person with many friends who are theater artists, and many who are journalists.

If you get a comp ticket to a first preview, that's another story.



"A bad show will be bad on its first preview...It may become less bad but the odds are highly against it becoming good..."

So true. Updated On: 9/28/16 at 01:01 PM

10086sunset
#4Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:03pm

neonlightsxo said: "There are no preview prices on Broadway. If they're going to charge us $145 (for example) for a preview, we have just as much right to talk about a show if we paid for it. Most shows do not indicate AT ALL at the box office or online the difference between a preview and a post opening show. We are under no obligation to them.
 

^ Couldn't agree more, neon...

Call_me_jorge Profile Photo
Call_me_jorge
#5Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:06pm

I really think previews are nonexistent nowadays. Now that we have tracks and and more complicated set designs it's harder to write new material for a set piece that was created for another purpose in the show. 


In our millions, in our billions, we are most powerful when we stand together. TW4C unwaveringly joins the worldwide masses, for we know our liberation is inseparably bound. Signed, Theater Workers for a Ceasefire https://theaterworkersforaceasefire.com/statement

Kad Profile Photo
Kad
#6Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:16pm

Have to agree: once you have started performances on Broadway and are charging full price, you are out of the safe development phase. Very few productions are able to make massive changes to their script or score during previews these days- shows like Shuffle Along, with extensive work being done in previews, are anomalous.

Word of mouth gets out- and why shouldn't it? There is no functional difference between the ticket for a preview and a ticket for post-opening.

 


"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

newintown Profile Photo
newintown
#7Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:17pm

Whizzer doesn't write "reviews." (Nor does anyone else on this site.)

Whizzer merely expresses an opinion in writing to be shared with a finite group of like-minded individuals.

This ultra-significant distinction makes the original question moot.

RaisedOnMusicals Profile Photo
RaisedOnMusicals
#8Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:20pm

neonlightsxo said: "There are no preview prices on Broadway. If they're going to charge us $145 (for example) for a preview, we have just as much right to talk about a show if we paid for it. Most shows do not indicate AT ALL at the box office or online the difference between a preview and a post opening show. We are under no obligation to them.

I say this as a person with many friends who are theater artists, and many who are journalists.

If you get a comp ticket to a first preview, that's another story.


This is very fair point. I might be wrong, but when I was younger (perhaps much younger, I think that preview tickets were always considerably cheaper than post opening tickets  

 

 

 

 

 


CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.

neonlightsxo
#9Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:21pm

They aren't now, so there's really no point in the argument?

henrikegerman Profile Photo
henrikegerman
#10Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:23pm

Why not?  Those who read preview reviews understand the caveats you point out; that much can change.  People can't be stopped from talking about their reactions to a show even in early previews.  People are interested in word of mouth about shows at this stage, and always have been.  You can't have positive word of mouth about some shows without having less than positive.   Many shows are even professionally reviewed out of town before they are subject to these kinds of reviews in town.   And it also might be noted - to be filed under "not for nothing" if nothing else -  that many of us pay a great deal of money to see shows in early previews.

JBroadway Profile Photo
JBroadway
#11Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:26pm

Our posts on this board are not reviews, nor are we members of the press. This board is not even an informal blog. It's just a space to share opinions. These are just opinions of people who see shows. If the producers of a show don't want people to have opinions before the show ready, then they shouldn't begin performances until that point. Of course, you might argue that it's different because it's on a public online forum. But it's honestly not that different. The fact that these opinions are on an online forum only means that the information will travel faster. As it happens, I think most people do NOT make their show-seeing decisions based on Whizzer's (or other posters' Reviewing first or very early previews opinions, but even if they do, it doesn't change much. If someone is determined to make their show-seeing decisions based on word of mouth from early previews, they can do so with or without the aid of the internet. 

And as others have said, both in this thread and past threads, a preview period can rarely save a bad show. 

EDIT: I took a while to type this post, and in that time I see others have made similar points as I did. Sorry for the repetition, but consider this my agreement with those points! 

Updated On: 9/28/16 at 01:26 PM

RaisedOnMusicals Profile Photo
RaisedOnMusicals
#12Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 1:57pm

I really din't disagree with these points at all. I was just raising the issues for discussion, based in part on the Windman book. I clearly understand that these are not reviews, which I did try to note in the original post by indicating that because tickets are not free, anyone who sees the show is free to post their reactions, and by calling them "civilian" reviews, though of course review is technically not accurate. But in terms of Whizzer specifically, who as I noted I enjoy and respect very much, his comments are referred to as "reviews" on this board by virtually everyone.

I do think that changes can and are made during the preview period, though I suspect that all they can really do is make a bad show a bit better, but not into a good show.


CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.

neonlightsxo
#13Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 2:05pm

"his comments are referred to as 'reviews' on this board by virtually everyone."

 

Right, but they're not literally professional theater reviews, as understood by virtually everyone including yourself. So again, I'm not sure there's a debate here.

trpguyy
#14Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 2:08pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I really think previews are nonexistent nowadays. Now that we have tracks and and more complicated set designs it's harder to write new material for a set piece that was created for another purpose in the show. "

There are changes that can be made to show other than scenic design. For example, if you went to the first preview of Cats, you would have seen much more of Blankenbeuhler's choreography than is in the show now.

Back to designs though, I have worked on two shows in the past few seasons where designers were replaced early on in the preview process. I firmly believe that had these huge changes not been made, the shows would not have enjoyed/enjoy their respectable runs.

Updated On: 9/28/16 at 02:08 PM

Sunny11
#15Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 2:45pm

 I think that the acting of the cast at the start of previews should be view optimistically since that almost always grows over time.

Performers who are inexperienced at stage acting, like those who came in as mainly professional singers or hollywood actors, are likely to be the ones who improves more over the course of their run but are also more likely to be rough at the start. 

Updated On: 9/28/16 at 02:45 PM

neonlightsxo
#16Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:04pm

Sunny11 said: " I think that the acting of the cast at the start of previews should be view optimistically since that almost always grows over time.

Performers who are inexperienced at stage acting, like those who came in as mainly professional singers or hollywood actors, are likely to be the ones who improves more over the course of their run but are also more likely to be rough at the start. 
"

 

No one performing on Broadway at these ticket prices is entitled to a rough performance in terms of their acting. It also seems like you're telling us to give them a break? Nah.



Updated On: 9/28/16 at 03:04 PM

nycgiraffe212
#17Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:18pm

I heard Mike Nichols say that every show he ever did the average theatregoer would not notice the difference between the first preview and opening night. I was surprised he thought that.

I also read The Thin Man musical and a pair of Al Pacino plays at Circle in The Square got in trouble for not advertising they were in previews with The NY Commissioner of Consumer Affairs. Historically shows used to have discounted preview prices. When did that practice change? 

Oak2
#18Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:26pm

If they expect audiences and critics to "give them a break" for the first few previews, then they need to likewise have the previews be at much lower cost than the post-"official" opening shows. As long as previews cost just as much as the other shows, they should be expected to be of the same quality as the post-opening shows. If they want us to expect less quality than a show later on, then it better be cheaper.

Sunny11
#19Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:30pm

Everybody who buys tickets to a preview knows that its work in progress, thats the entire purpose of them, to polish up the production. 

You can't buy a newborn puppy and then complain that it hasn't had its shots or been neutered. 

neonlightsxo
#20Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:51pm

Everybody who buys tickets to a preview knows that its work in progress, thats the entire purpose of them, to polish up the production. 

 

Did you read the thread before posting? I don't EVER recall seeing any ticketing website, or any Broadway box office explicitly state that a show is in previews, and what previews are. That is patently false. People who wander in off the street DO NOT KNOW what a preview is. Sorry for caps lock, but what you're saying is just completely wrong.

JBroadway Profile Photo
JBroadway
#21Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:53pm

You can if you're paying the same price as you would for a puppy that HAS had its shots and been neutered (I actually don't know how that whole process works as I'm not really a pet person, but that seemed to be the logical response within the metaphor)

neonlightsxo
#22Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:55pm

JBroadway, indeed!

toofunktastic2
#23Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 3:59pm

JBroadway said: "You can if you're paying the same price as you would for a puppy that HAS had its shots and been neutered (I actually don't know how that whole process works as I'm not really a pet person, but that seemed to be the logical response within the metaphor)

"

It's really a terrible comparison tbh.  Also if you buy a puppy that's sick or has undisclosed issues you can receive some or all of your money back.

 

neonlightsxo
#24Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 4:00pm

"Also if you buy a puppy that's sick or has undisclosed issues you can receive some or all of your money back."

 

In that case, I've seen a lot of musicals with undisclosed issues and I'd like my money back!

adam.peterson44 Profile Photo
adam.peterson44
#25Reviewing first or very early previews
Posted: 9/28/16 at 7:38pm

This board is really more of a case of word-of-mouth than of reviews, albeit accelerated word-of-mouth.  And i agree with what people have posted:  full-price tickets make sharing one's opinion a perfectly valid thing to do, not just legally but ethically.  Here in my city, there are a number of local theatre companies that do actually charge significantly discounted prices, e.g. either half price or sometimes even lower ($10 or $20) for a few preview shows, and then they switch to their regular pricing.  I see that much less often with Broadway shows.  A few seem to have some kind of gimmick pricing (e.g. $15.95 for a show set in 1595, etc.) for a few shows, and in that case i really would treat those performances more like protected developmental stages than the ones that are already charging the public full price. 

        Personally, i only read reviews or discussions on this board if i have already seen a show and am curious to see if others reacted similarly to how i did, or if i have decided that i won't see it due to uninteresting subject matter, or if i have never heard of it before and don't know what the thread is about.  In the latter two cases, i sometimes read discussion boards or reviews in case there is a general consensus that something great is happening, in which case i might change my mind and decide to go see it after all.  If i already know that i want to see something either because of the creative team, subject matter, or performer(s), then i don't want to know what anyone else thinks until i have formed my own opinion first with a minimum of extra information. I have ended up seeing shows that i wasn't planning to see after reading about them on here (sometimes without even having heard of them via any other channel).  But i have never decided not to see a show that i was already planning to see. 

        Social media allows shows to find more of an audience by amplifying word of mouth beyond the reaches of just local theatre-goers or the occasional tourists who happen to know other tourists seeing shows in NYC.  Shows tend to stay open longer now than in the past, causing more theatres to be occupied with long-running shows than 40-50 years ago, and ticket prices have increased faster than inflation over that time period, so producers/shows seem to be benefiting from the widespread word of mouth that the internet provides.  But the flip side is that if many people don't like the show, people may hear about that too.  But without the internet, many shows used to close quickly without finding an audience, even if they were well-liked by those who saw them.  At least now such shows have more of a fighting chance for people who might like them to actually hear about them on time.