Interns fired en masse for protesting dress code

[javero]

Interesting related article from AARP below.  I do think the authors pour it on a little thick though.

The Terrible 22s

[SNAFU]

To be fair, the world is a different place today. Growing up in the 60's, we said good bye to our mothers at 9 AM on a summer morning, hopped on our bikes and weren't heard from until we crashed home for lunch (if we didn't buy a slice somewhere or ate at a friends house). We really weren't expected to be seen again until summoned for dinner (each father had his own whistle or if he couldn't whistle a triangle). There were no cell phones or computer games. Hell, we weren't allowed to bring calculators to school, only slide rulers.

 If we failed a class, it was OUR Ass and not blamed on the teachers as it is today. I am sure if you looked beyond the dumb Common Core teachers required to teach, you would find them just as dedicated to their jobs today asthey were back then, always struggling with not enough money for supplies or salary for the job they do. What is different is that the responsibility for Billy getting a good grade has switched from Billy applying himself to something the teacher must be doing wrong. Awards were  given to those who worked hard and earned them and not just for showing up. We were told to try our hardest, that we might not be special but work was expected of us.

 Because the world is a more dangerous place, parents have become Helicopter Parents. Little Billy is unique and special. I remeber in very end sixth Grade my Grammar School switched to the Pass Fail system instead of normal grading. Boy did I feel rooked! Why work so hard if you were only to get a P or an F!

 I guess what I am trying to say is, Millenials themselves are not completely to blame. Changes in Parenting attitudes and Teaching play a big role in the way they learn to handle things. These Interns wanted their opinions heard, where I was taught, until you earned the privilege to voice an opinion , you kept quietand buckled down to athourity. Every generation goes through the period from High School to College where they have all the answers. I know I went through that! It takes experience and hard knocks to suddenly realize just how much you don't know.

[Jane2]

That is interesting Javero. But I'm not sure why a human being doesn't know to help a person in need. I thought it was human nature, above all else.

[MikeInTheDistrict]

Yes, just as it's not helpful to trivialize the issues of the Millennials (and, ahem, us GenXers), it's not helpful to ignore all the chaos that the Boomers went though. Yes, post-WWII, the world experienced an economic boom, the likes of which (in spite of all Donald Trump is promising) we'll probably never see again. A confluence of factors brought that about, but it ended by the 1970s during the oil crisis.

Likewise, the so-called Greatest Generation may have done an admirable job navigating the Great Depression and WWII, but they were often terrible and abusive parents. Leave It to Beaver and I Love Lucy didn't quite capture the PTSD (which the medical system hadn't quite know what to do with, beside perhaps a transorbital lobotomy, tranquilizers, or shock treatments available at the time), rampant alcoholism among the men returning home from war, and the depression that came to be commonplace the 1950s housewife. The first antidepressants became available during this time. Sylvia Plath, Anne Sexton, and Betty Friedan were among this generation. So was Joseph McCarthy. Philip Larkin was, too, and he wrote the famous lines in "This be the Verse": "They **** you up, your mum and dad/They may not mean to, but they do/They fill you with the faults they had/And add some extra, just for you."

So, every generation has its grievances with its parents and with its successors. But it's never helpful to perpetuate the cycle.

[Stage Door Sally]

What is it with all this misuse of the word "respect?" On a recent trip to Boston, I was on may way out from a store and was headed to my car, which was parked along the curb behind another car, when a young woman in her early 20's, suddenly pulled her car right up behind mine and banged into the back of it with a loud thud and jolt. She then quickly got out to go into the store. I called to her, "Hey, you just hit my car, and now I can't even get out."  She yelled at me, "RESPECT!" Hopped back into her car, moved it a foot back so I could leave and she could take my space. I put my shopping bag in the car. Then, I took my sweet time and walked to the back of my car to see if there was any damage , fortunately there wasn't. "RESPECT is a two way street," I called to her. 

[Jane2]

sally, didn't you know that respect is the word given to the wrongdoer, not the victim of their crime.

[hork]

People suck, and young people tend to suck most of all. But young people have always sucked, regardless of their generation. I once had a very similar encounter as Jane's stairway incident, but that was about 20 years ago. Entitlement and arrogance among the young is nothing new. Millennials just have more ways to express and spread their arrogance.

[SNAFU]

Millennials....GET OFF MY LAWN!

[Kad]

God, this topic makes me think less of a lot of people I like on here.

 


 

[Jane2]

How's the altitude on that horse?

[hork]

Kad said: "God, this topic makes me think less of a lot of people I like on here.

 
Which topic? Internships or generation failings? Either way, it seems like an odd thing to make you change your opinion of people.

 

[qolbinau]

More on entitlement: Talking specifically about the workplace, I can't stand unwarranted entitlement. If someone does not have the requisite skills, or if the organisation does simply not have the business need, I don't believe they should expect or deserve that position, that salary or that promotion. But I am not convinced that unwarranted entitlement is largely confined to one particular generation. Perhaps people just find it ESPECIALLY annoying when it's a younger person, but I can see it everywhere. E.g., I have seen older non-university educated nursing staff complaining about younger university-educated staff because they are given more responsibilities due to their education/training - those older people are not entitled to anything simply because of their age. If they want the same responsibilities, they should seek out further education. I have seen older people mask poor technical skills behind age and 'experience' that also seem to feel entitled for roles and levels of responsibility that they aren't equipped to deal with (and indeed, unfortunately it hasn't ended well for them because of it). I feel like if the roles were reversed and these were 'millennials' complaining people would find it especially annoying. I'm just not convinced there are as larger differences between generations as people claim there are. It doesn't matter what age you are, most people want to get paid more, and most people want greater responsibility/promotions/skills. 

[HorseTears]

Jane - that couple who refused to let you pass were assholes, plain and simple.  I'm a millennial.  I would have asked you if you needed help, not stand in your way.  I know hypotheticals make people uncomfortable, but let's try this anyway.  I'm going to - for the purposes of this discussion - assume that the couple was white.  What if they had been black.  Would you have felt comfortable coming on this messageboard and complaining about how rude and inconsiderate black people are based upon a couple of unfortunate encounters you'd had with  a handful of black people?  What about Asian people?  Or gay people?  If not, why is it more acceptable for you to make these sweeping pronouncements about the largest generation of people in the US based upon a couple of anecdotal incidents?  

 

A few weeks ago an older woman (70+) shoved me out of the way to get to a seat on the LA subway (I was not impeding access to anything) and last week another older woman with one of those individual shopping carts ran right over my foot, looked me dead in the eyes and didn't even attempt to apologize.  Still, I don't think these rather inconsiderate women are representative of all women over 70.  I don't see why this is so complicated.  

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  The plural of anecdote is not data.  

[Jane2]

Horse Tears, your entire accusatory post to me is based on your assumption that this rude couple was white. You have no idea what they were now, do you? You don't because I never mentioned it. And you won't know. My complaint was about the age group of these people. Race is on YOUR mind, not mine.

I don't appreciate what you implied about me. I think you have a lot of nerve making those assumptions about me and I resent it.

Yes, I know you said it was hypothetical but you did say this - "why is it more acceptable for you to make these sweeping pronouncements about the largest generation of people in the US based upon a couple of anecdotal incidents? "

I resent that, Mr./Ms Millennial, because that's NOT WHAT I DID.

[HorseTears]

Jane - What was the point of sharing your anecdote about these (yes, inconsiderate, entitled asshole millennials) if not to share an example of behavior you feel is representative of an entire generation of people?  You're right, I have no idea what the race of this couple was.  My question to you was pretty straightforward.  You chose to focus on the ages of these people as if to suggest that their behavior was representative of all  - or, let's give you the benefit of the doubt - a significant percentage of millennials.

 

My very reasonable follow up to you was whether it would have been acceptable for you to have made the same generalization about a different characteristic of this couple - say their race, nationality, ethnic background, sexual orientation etc.  I presume you would not find that kind of sweeping generalization to be acceptable, so why then, is it acceptable to do the exact same thing based upon their age/generation?  I await your faux outrage and refusal to answer the question directly.  

[givesmevoice]

You know what really bothers me about posts like SNAFU's, fondly recalling their childhood in the 60s while bemoaning what happened when parenting millennials? If a baby boomer is a parent, their child is most likely a millennial. (In fact, millennials are called echo boomers.) So you know who allegedly screwed up parenting? The people who apparently had such a perfect childhood that they chose not to replicate their parents' parenting styles when raising their own children.

[Jane2]

I'm not answering your question because it's ridiculous. You're ridiculous.

This is wasting my time, good evening.

 

[HorseTears]

I'm shocked.  

 

[insert Liz Lemon eyeroll GIF because, yes, all we darn millennials can do is post memes]

[MikeInTheDistrict]

LOL! You did your best, HorseTears.

Edit: Actually I don't want to be mean. I'll just say that sometimes people just don't get it, and you can only do so much to make them see your point.

[javero]

"So you know who allegedly screwed up parenting? The people who apparently had such a perfect childhood that they chose not to replicate their parents' parenting styles when raising their own children."

Oh boy...givesmevoice has alluded to the elephant in the room...boomer parenting styles.  Having grown up in the god-fearing Old South I'm comfortable suggesting that most Millenials would be disturbed by the childhoods of my fellow Boomers and me in that context.  Corporal punishment ruled the day.  In short, parents (and school teachers) were still beating their kids' (and students' azzes right and left.  Parents were the absolute authority in their kids lives as long as they all lived under the same roof.  And they did NOT drug their kids to deal with behavioral issues including attention disorders.  A paddle, belt, switch, ruler, or fist was the Greatest Generation's answer to disciplinary problems in my childhood household as well as throughout the neighborhood.  If that was not your experience, then consider yourself lucky, fellow Boomer.

In the mid-70's, the American Psychological Association made a pronouncement decrying the use of corporal punishment in schools, juvenile detention centers, and anywhere else children were temporary wards of the state.  See APA on Corporal Punishment.

Most Boomer parents with whom I'm acquainted, even in my family, were always slightly fearful of having charges of child abuse brought against them by a school official if Johnnie showed up to school with a welt from a belt.  Between liberal lawmakers rushing to enact new laws in response to the APA pronouncement and liberal talk show hosts publicly shaming parents who still put heat to the seat, many Boomers opted for time-out and other forms of behavior management with respect to their children, including the drugs.

Growing up in the Old South, I'm also comfortable suggesting that forced desegregation of public schools throughout the south played a huge part in the public's changing attitude toward corporal punishment.  I started public school in NC in 1970 the same year the state's public schools were desegregated thanks to a federal court order.  It was NOT a smooth process.  The aftermath created such tension that local townspeople were openly saying that "none of those teachers from another flock had better put a hand on my child".  My experience was similar to that of countless similarly-aged family members throughout the region so I wouldn't dismiss this as purely anecdotal.  It helps to have lived through the era.

Those of us old enough clearly remember the 60's for what they were, a toxic brew of bad race relations, the pestilence known as the Vietnam War, and the assassinations of a sitting US President, his Senator brother, and the nation's most prominent civil rights leader.  Similarly, we vividly recall the 70's as the era  marked by many women in the USA claiming their personal sovereignty at long last, some very bold souls that carried the G & L in LGBTQ willing to say "enough" to hate-mongers, Watergate that forced a sitting President to vacate the office, and the god-awful intractable Cold War that would give rise to the Reaganites of the nation.

I don't mean to discount the struggle & concerns of Millenials, but to me, some of it is in your heads; the rest is not really that novel.  Many Boomers like me bore the yolk of student loans and crawled before we were able to walk metaphorically speaking.  You didn't endure lynchings, bombings, routine police brutality, and kangaroo courts for being black (or brown), or back-room abortions or beatings at the hands of your husbands (or divorce papers) for embracing the Women's Liberation Movement, or Stonewall, routine bashings for appearing LGBTQ or the first wave of HIV/AIDS.  And because corporal punishment was very passe when you Millenials hit the scene, it's now unconscionable that any human should ever lay a hand upon you for any reason whatsoever, even in the streets here in the States.  However, reality is sometimes different than what we've been conditioned to believe.

[Marianne2]

Working in retail,  I see bad behavior from both young and old and coworkers of all ages too. As I mentioned,  I work with 2 people who always seem to believe they are being mistreated when they don't get exactly what they want.  

Last week we had an incident where a customer left our restroom so disgusting.  I'm talking about a poop filled adult diaper on the floor with wet poop and the toilet stuffed with paper. The interesting part of the situation was the lack of understanding from other customers.  They were all so rude when informing us. Like acting like we left the mess on purpose. And then they had the nerve to act like it only should take 5 seconds to clean.  Had adults threaten that their children would wet their pants. Sorry,  but we can't help what another customer did and we will take time to make sure the place is sanitary.  I volunteered to help clean up as well.  Of course when I told others of the situation,  everyone else was like "I wouldn't have helped." I did to get it cleaned faster and because I felt bad for my manager there.

I also can't stand the entitlement of acting so rude to get what you want Asap. I am glad to help, but being demanding and unreasonable will not make it get done quicker. 

I guess I just find people to be jerks and entitled in general.  Obviously that is not everyone or those of certain groups.  

[Generation Gap]

After a thorough study of this thread, the Council of Generational Matters is ready to issue a ruling. 

 

While qolbinau is a terrible reflection of her generation (we'd like to see credentials attesting to her education and level of success), we have still ruled overwhelming in favor of the Millennials.  The Boomers, as they have for decades now, have overwhelmingly proven themselves to be the absolute worst.  Take comfort, Millennials and Generation X, and just know that - despite their denial - the Boomers will not live forever. It just seems that way.

 

This ruling is final.

 

 

[John Adams]

hork said: "Entitlement and arrogance among the young is nothing new. Millennials just have more ways to express and spread their arrogance."

I want to change that last phrase to "express themselves". No need to add fuel to the fire. That said, I think you've made a good point that's not just limited to millennials. If this conversation were taking place even half a generation ago, the story about those interns would have most likely been restricted to a local news source (if reported at all) and this thread wouldn't exist.

I think, too that technological advances (and the speed at which they progress) are at least partially responsible for training this and future generations that "instant gratification" can and should be expected, more so than previous generations.

The somewhat recent findings demonstrating that the human brain isn't fully developed until at least the mid-twenties, and possibly as late as the mid-thirties/early 40s (see: this article as one example. You can also google for articles RE: the research done at Dartmouth for more examples) also factor into this conversation.

A quote from the above article: "The research could explain why adults sometimes act like teenagers, sulking or having tantrums if they do not get their own way, and why some people remain socially uncomfortable until they are well out of their teens."

[SNAFU]

Givesmevoice, my parents were not Boomers. I was born in the late 50's. It is my generation  that is the cause of the shift in parenting. Yes, it is my fellow Boomers who raised the first Millennials, or the later Millennials parents. The shift did occur under our watch. It doesn't mean the shift is any more real or apparent. Some changes are for the good. No longer can you beat the crap out of your kid in public without the fear of Child Services paying a call.  Before then, that  was considered parenting. Some results are rather upsetting, the entitlement and feeling that everyone deserves a prize.

[HorseTears]

MikeInTheDistrict said: "LOL! You did your best, HorseTears.

Edit: Actually I don't want to be mean. I'll just say that sometimes people just don't get it, and you can only do so much to make them see your point."

 

 

I liked both versions, Mike, but I appreciate the generosity behind your edit.  Mike still speaks for me.  

 



 

[qolbinau]

Generation Gap said: "After a thorough study of this thread, the Council of Generational Matters is ready to issue a ruling. 

 

While qolbinau is a terrible reflection of her generation (we'd like to see credentials attesting to her education and level of success), we have still ruled overwhelming in favor of the Millennials.  The Boomers, as they have for decades now, have overwhelmingly proven themselves to be the absolute worst.  Take comfort, Millennials and Generation X, and just know that - despite their denial - the Boomers will not live forever. It just seems that way.

 

This ruling is final.
 

"

Um, the idea that you would create an account to post this is incredibly bizarre. Terrible reflection? Please. There is nothing terrible about working hard, doing well and avoiding inter-generational stereotypes/actually getting on with and respecting people from different generations - making judgements based on individual characteristics rather than age. Of course, I acknowledge I come across as potentially unnecessarily arrogant - of which is mostly trolling. The slight bit of truth is because sometimes it can be incredibly annoying to see the 'ageism/generationalism' on this forum. Most recently, for example, in the Bernie Sanders vs Hillary Clinton thread - where many posters seemed unwilling to actually listen and engage in a discussion about the issues at hand and focus on unrelated personal qualities of the posters. 

Also, I am a man.