WAR PAINT - Pre-Broadway Thread

[A Director]

Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein are not well-known to theatergoers in 2016. Why would they be interested in seeing a show about them?

Does the show have crossover appeal for women and straight men?

[Mr. Nowack]

Because sometimes compelling theatre can be crafted around people that haven't had their names plastered on every inch of pop culture to the point of nausea??

[icecreambenjamin]

Is there a standout song in this show like Another Winter in a Summer Town or like Tuesdays, Thursdays?

[gypsy101]

A Director said: "Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein are not well-known to theatergoers in 2016. Why would they be interested in seeing a show about them?

Does the show have crossover appeal for women and straight men?"

lots of women like theater just fine without "crossover appeal"

[A Director]

"Because sometimes compelling theatre can be crafted around people that haven't had their names plastered on every inch of pop culture to the point of nausea??"

Yes, Mr. Nowack. Hamilton is an outstanding example of your point.

What is there in the lives of Elizabeth and Helena that would appeal to an audience in 2016?

[A Director]

Gypsy101, you state, "lots of women like theater just fine without "crossover appeal""

Yes. On the other hand, your comment seems to imply men don't like theatre.  There are gay men who like theatre and there are gay men who don't like theatre.  There are straight men who like theatre and there are straight men who don't like theatre.

Most of the posts in this thread tell me little about the show other than it's any evening of Diva Worship.  There is nothing wrong with this, but some people might want a little more.

[Mr. Nowack]

I'd have to disagree saying the opinions here are nothing but diva worship. Many have also given their analysis of the score and book etc as well, mostly positive. Having not seen the show I can't really attest to it but that is beside the point.

As for what these two women's stories have to offer for modern theatre audiences, well I think that is why you go see the show?? 

[adamgreer]

A Director said: "Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein are not well-known to theatergoers in 2016. Why would they be interested in seeing a show about them?

Does the show have crossover appeal for women and straight men?

 

Who'd ever be interested in a show about a woman who lost her memory during a medical procedure?

Who'd want to see a musical about a strike in a pajama factory?

How about a musical about having to pay to pee?

Good theater can come from unexpected storylines, whether or not the audience is familiar with the characters or plot.

 

[pattilupwned]

I will admit that I had little knowledge about the subject matter going in, but is that always required to enjoy a show? You don't need to have extensive knowledge about Alexander Hamilton to enjoy Hamilton. Many would say the same thing: why would someone be interested in seeing a show about Hamilton? It just kinda....works. (Although I do respect and understand that many do not enjoy Hamilton). 

The story is about two extremely strong and successful women who made their way to the top of their field, regardless of their gender and the many obstacles thrown at them as a result of it. I certainly think that premise can have appeal beyond the traditional "theater queens". I also think, if marketed well, this could bring in an older crowd who could reminisce about some of the general events and themes that occur in the show. A general theme is how beauty standards are ever-changing; what is "in" one week is "out" the other. I think anyone can understand and relate to that concept. 

A Director, what specifically would you like to know about the show? I'll admit the focus does tend to pull toward Ebersole and LuPone when giving a review, but I would be happy to share more thoughts specifically. 

[gypsy101]

I didn't mention straight men because in my experience they tend to like theater less than gay men. I didn't think that was a revolutionary point that needed mentioning.

[MrsSallyAdams]

Re: A Director.

A theme of the show I forgot to mention is the history of makeup. We learn a lot about the ingredients that have gone into it, how male marketers put the same ingredients in different packages to increase sales, and how corporations have trained men (and women) to find certain looks appealing. I found this very interesting... though of course diva worship plays a part too.

There were lots of women in the audience who laughed with recognition at some of the product names and jokes about their quality.

[qolbinau]

The show has basically been selling out at Broadway prices in a theatre that's almost as big as the Broadway theatre it is likely to transfer to. It may be slightly different in New York when it is competing with more shows, is in a bigger theatre, and in an open-ended run. But it is clear that this show is appealing to a wider audience than gay men who want to worship divas. 

[pattilupwned]

Playbill images, as requested. This was from 7/2, so things might change. I don't recall "A Woman's Face (Reprise)" happening at the end, so there were already cuts being made that weren't fully reflected in the Playbill.



 



 



 

[Hum a tune]

As a woman, I will give you my opinion. I did not know anything about Elizabeth and Helena except their names.  My favorite shows are ones that are historical and have strong female characters (Side Show, Parade, Ragtime, etc.). Also I had never seen Patti live.  So I was excited to see this show.   Well...It was great to see the Patti/Christine diva fest and the costumes but...I have to say that the show did not meet my expectations. Although both of these women were strong, overcame adversity and created a legacy, I did not find the story is not intriguing.  Grey Gardens was intriguing and haunting. It left me with so many questions about human nature, relationships, mental illness, and on and on.  I think this show will find an audience among people who want to see Patti and Christine and women who remember the prestige of the red door salons.   **SPOILERS The parts I found most interesting were:  Elizabeth's facial masks that used electricity, how they doubled sales by putting the same makeup in two different colored jars, that Helena wasn't allowed to buy an apartment because of anti-Semitism, when World War II caused rationing of supplies the ladies became creative to keep their businesses alive, the fact that Helena had many portraits made of herself and why and the heartbreak of having to sell them, the Revlon subplot and the power of television

[pattilupwned]

SOME SPOILERS *****

Hum a Tune, as a woman as well, I also enjoyed the moments you mentioned the most. The selling the same item in two jars as "night" and "day", in particular, was great. The competition with Revlon ("Fire and Ice" was interesting to me, probably because the brand has such widespread recognition. I loved the scene of the two ladies watching Revlon on tv; Patti's comedic timing there was really great.

Are there some problems? Yes. But I honestly think between the tryout period and the break they'll have between the inevitable transfer, they can tune things up a bit and have a very successful run in NYC. 

[ljay889]

It's hopeless with "A Director." He's one of Patti's biggest haters and will do anything to bash a show that she's part of. He was brutal during 2008's Gypsy. 

[Mister Matt]

Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein are not well-known to theatergoers in 2016. Why would they be interested in seeing a show about them?

That is precisely the reason many musicals are written, regardless the year it is produced.  The creators focus on a little-known story and attempt to create a compelling reason to bring it to the public consciousness.  The fact that it is little-known is often the very reason the show is being created in the first place.  It's not as if the source material and subjects of Grey Gardens were widely known by the general public (theatre-going or otherwise).  If, in fact, you are a director, I find it rather odd that you would pose this question.  It's like the oft-posted question, "Why is this necessary?".  It seems to exist only to be contrary and devoid of actual critical thought.

[ljay889]

Mister Matt said: ".  If, in fact, you are a director, I find it rather odd that you would pose this question.  It's like the oft-posted question, "Why is this necessary?".  It seems to exist only to be contrary and devoid of actual critical thought."

 

He is only doing this to try to tear down something that Patti LuPone is involved with. He is known for this, I am sure the old posts still exist. It's best to just ignore him like we tried doing during his relentless tirades against LuPone during Gypsy.

[ljay889]

Some examples on the first and second pages of this thread. 

http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=969738&page=1

[TimesSquared]

Forget Hamilton, how many Americans in 1979 had any idea who Eva Peron was? People didn't avoid Evita because they didn't know who she was.

I just finished Lindy Woodhead's book War Paint, on which the show is based. I knew the names Arden and Rubinstein, of course, but not that they were business tycoons on a global scale from as far back as the 1920s. Not to mention the obvious fact that they were women in a time when women were rarely in charge of anything, much less corporate empires of their own design. They created an industry that really didn't exist before, both immigrants—starting with almost nothing but shrewdness and a will to succeed. Add to that, the fact they were in direct competition and spent the better part of their careers attempting to one-up each other. Sounds like a fascinating subject for a musical to me!

I think most theater goers like to learn something new while they are being entertained, and won't be put off by their unfamiliarity with the backgrounds of Arden and Rubinstein. 

[daniellesf]

I saw this a few nights ago.  WOW.  Won't say much, but there are at least 5 show-stoppers.  The Act One finale, Christine and Patti BOTH have epic 11 o clock numbers.  

[Bettyboy72]

As for the inferences to gay diva worship that isn't objective, I would have to say the audiences were primarily older straight couples and college theatre students the two nights I saw it. Standing Os both nights. You all know when a show feels like a gay Pride event with your gaydar going off left and right. This did not have that feel. These were mixed audiences. 

The music is very, very good and the story is one not many people know. It's also compelling. Like I said, I went with a female friend who abhors musicals and she really enjoyed it and we had a lot to talk about after. 

Dinosaurs could definitely be cut and I think some of the choreography could be punched up to be more thrilling. 

[Scarywarhol]

I saw it this weekend and will report more later. (Tired; tipsy.) But for now, I will say that I really enjoyed it even if it just doesn't have obviously and intensely interesting subject matter like this creative team's earlier effort, Grey Gardens. I think it is going to get much stronger. As for any notion that the sole appeal is the diva factor--entirely disagree. Right now, the performances are firing in the same way that the rest of the show is. That is, they are fantastic parts that need to be guided into serving a central SOMETHING, and that something is still embryonic. All of the individual parts are prime cut. I mean, Michael Korie's lyrics? Forget it, the man's a genius, I can just listen to his rhymes all day. Some great melodies from Frankel, and some teriffic stingers from Doug Wright's book. Hope to find time to write more thoroughly on where I think this can/should go soon. But just think of how much more focused Grey Gardens got.

[Scarywarhol]

icecreambenjamin said: "Is there a standout song in this show like Another Winter in a Summer Town or like Tuesdays, Thursdays?"

 



Slight spoilers. 

 

We get dual Big Numbers from both leading ladies leading up to the climactic scene that are maybe not independently gorgeous in the way Another Winter is, but are really damn good showcases. Christine has "Pink" as she is about to sign over her company, and it's a lovely and moving number, as she wonders if her life's work is just a color that will serve as a commodity for someone else. Patti's sounds like just another ballad when you read the title, "Forever Beautiful," but it's something more interesting, dark, and fun, as she goes through all the paintings and sculptures great artists have immortalized her through. 

The second act's songs were more memorable to me than the first's, but this score is up to the level of quality and sophistication I expect from these writers.

 

[Scarywarhol]

Oh, but Patti DOES have a great straight ballad earlier in the second act called "Now You Know." 

 

The more I think about this score, the better it gets!

[StylishCynic]

I was lucky enough to see this on Saturday night, and, in short, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. From start to finish, this is truly one of the most captivating new musicals in the past 5 years.

I should preface with someone's comment from earlier mentioning that Ms. Arden and Rubenstein don't have much name recognition in today's audiences, and I very much believe this is one of the source material's strengths. I went in knowing nothing about the women and nothing of the show's plot/musical structure. Because of this, I never once knew what would happen next or how the story would end. It's not like most biopics where the ending is known (a la Evita or Hamilton). 

 

I will say that I was almost more wowed by the book scenes than the songs. The book is top-notch, and the humor is witty, fast, and poignant. I kept telling myself to remember some of the lines. What sticks out in my head now is this:

*Arden at the St. Regis for lunch*
Freddie (waiter): "The usual today, Miss Arden?"

Arden: "Yes, Freddie, I'll have my usual --One beef bouillon cube dissolved in hot water, 4 celery sticks, and a glass of prune juice."



I know that some are not fond of the final book scene (where the women meet at last), but I found it enthralling. The tea has been boiling hot through the whole show, and we finally get to sip it in all its glory here.

What is most effective in this scene is the use of silence between the two women. It was a pinnacle moment of adrenaline, reflection, and camaraderie between two formidable women.



The 2 men, Mr. Lewis and Flemming, compliment these women well, and their send off song --"Dinosaurs"-- was a breath of fresh air. It was an "Agony" for two grown men --both topping each other's hellish experiences with humor, wit, and grief. 

My favorite song had to have been "Now You Know," which burned white hot with spite and pity. 



All in all, I'm still reflecting, but I count my pearls that I'm lucky enough to live 15 minutes away from the Goodman. I've already purchased tickets for 2 more performances.