MY HAMILTON CANCELLATION LINE EXPERIENCE AND HOW WE ALL GOT F***ED OVER IN THE END

[Wick3]

schubox said: "Also why are people on this board so determined to shut down threads? If it is no longer interesting you, stop opening it. People want threads locked, but then are enraged when people come in and start new threads. Clearly the thread has some value since people keep responding to it."

I agree with schubox. These are chat/discussion boards, meaning people are free to digitally discuss their opinions. As long as someone wants to continue the online chat/discussion in a respectful and civil manner, there's no need to shut this thread down.

People are free to *not* click on this thread, *not* read its contents, and *not* reply to the thread.  

 

[dramamama611]

I do think it's funny that the OP stopped posting over 12 hours ago, on page 7.

[WhizzerMarvin]

I sympathize with the OP. Not so much that she didn't get any tickets, but that the producers/theater owners have allowed the line to continued being formed and managed in they way that they have. 

Obviously they knew the line had problems- otherwise they wouldn't have released a new, more thorough set of rules a few months ago. That's all well and good, but when you know you have a problem area you need to a) make sure the new rules are being enforced and b) monitor the situation to see if the new rules need additions and the initial situation improves. 

I know one of the new rules was no chairs allowed, and yet I've walked by the theater many times and seen people seated in chairs over the past few months. If you're not going to enforce the rules, why should the people on line think they have to follow them?

Clearly the people on line needed a system to make sure they could correctly and fairly reform the line when asked to leave the theater for three hours during performances. The line members took it upon themselves to create a system, but what else were they supposed to do? Clearly the people in charge were not taking responsibility for the situation that had arisen.

Either get rid of the line completely or take responsibility for the line and manage it properly and fairly. It's probably not worth their time and money to do the latter, but if they do decide to allow people to continue to wait things can't go on they way they did before. 

[Liza's Headband]

WhizzerMarvin said: "I sympathize with the OP. Not so much that she didn't get any tickets, but that the producers/theater owners have allowed the line to continued being formed and managed in they way that they have. 

Obviously they knew the line had problems- otherwise they wouldn't have released a new, more thorough set of rules a few months ago. That's all well and good, but when you know you have a problem area you need to a) make sure the new rules are being enforced and b) monitor the situation to see if the new rules need additions and the initial situation improves. 

I know one of the new rules was no chairs allowed, and yet I've walked by the theater many times and seen people seated in chairs over the past few months. If you're not going to enforce the rules, why should the people on line think they have to follow them?

Clearly the people on line needed a system to make sure they could correctly and fairly reform the line when asked to leave the theater for three hours during performances. The line members took it upon themselves to create a system, but what else were they supposed to do? Clearly the people in charge were not taking responsibility for the situation that had arisen.

Either get rid of the line completely or take responsibility for the line and manage it properly and fairly. It's probably not worth their time and money to do the latter, but if they do decide to allow people to continue to wait things can't go on they way they did before. 

 

"

Under what obligation are they to make anything fair? I ask this sincerely. It's a private, commercially-produced, for-profit enterprise taking place on private property. While I don't disagree, they cannot be compelled to treat it the way you state. They can choose 20 random people. It's not fair and it's probably not the wisest thing to do. But they can do it and I find it appalling that we're trying to mandate everything from how a production distributes tickets to what size soda I can drink. I'm sick and tired of a 'nanny state' mentality, which in fact directly feeds into the millennial mentality so many on here bash and criticize. 

[WhizzerMarvin]

Well I think they have already attempted to make things "fair" by establishing rules like there will be no holding spots in line. A rule like that signals that they are concerned with fairness and order. They have acknowledged the line as the means to get cancellation tickets through their rules and not by random draw or some other means. I think if they want to use a cancellation line as a means to dispense tickets they should manage it properly or find another means of giving out the tickets (lotto, online resale, etc). They chose this method and they have already made several attempts to make it orderly and fair- the system they put in place is flawed and (of course, in my opinion) should either fix or get rid of it altogether.  

[wonderfulwizard11]

Whizzer, I see what you're saying, but who would be in charge of having to monitor that line? Box office staff are Union, and I doubt that their leadership would be happy with that added responsibility. And I doubt the producers want to hire security to essentially babysit a line of people round the clock, especially since people are spending days waiting for tickets. I think it would be best just to get rid of the line- it's gotten too out of hand. 

[peachesthecat]

WhizzerMarvin said: "I sympathize with the OP. Not so much that she didn't get any tickets, but that the producers/theater owners have allowed the line to continued being formed and managed in they way that they have. 

Obviously they knew the line had problems- otherwise they wouldn't have released a new, more thorough set of rules a few months ago. That's all well and good, but when you know you have a problem area you need to a) make sure the new rules are being enforced and b) monitor the situation to see if the new rules need additions and the initial situation improves. 

I know one of the new rules was no chairs allowed, and yet I've walked by the theater many times and seen people seated in chairs over the past few months. If you're not going to enforce the rules, why should the people on line think they have to follow them?

Clearly the people on line needed a system to make sure they could correctly and fairly reform the line when asked to leave the theater for three hours during performances. The line members took it upon themselves to create a system, but what else were they supposed to do? Clearly the people in charge were not taking responsibility for the situation that had arisen.

Either get rid of the line completely or take responsibility for the line and manage it properly and fairly. It's probably not worth their time and money to do the latter, but if they do decide to allow people to continue to wait things can't go on they way they did before. 

 

"

This.

The theater clearly wants as little to do with the line as possible, while still having (largely not enforced) rules to the line. Either they need to own the line and enforce the rules or do away with the line altogether.

I did the line last month (for what felt like a long time but after reading about how the line is now, seems like no time at all), and multiple times we were basically told by people working at the theater "you don't have to go home but you can't stay here". This led to people waiting in line having no choice but to enforce the rules ourselves and keep track of each other, which led to some confusion after they told us we had to disperse for three hours despite what the posted rules said. It really is a mess and there has to be a better way. 

[artscallion]

Why don't they just have the simple rule that the line for a performance cannot begin to form until such a point when there will be no reason for the line to disperse. In other words, the line for the 8pm show cannot begin to form until 1/2 hour after the matinee has ended. If there is no matinee, it cannot begin to form until open of business that morning. That way the line is the line and if you leave, you lose.

As to the OP. I think the moment she turned down the matinee, she forfeited her place in line. End of story.

 

[WhizzerMarvin]

wonderfulwizard11 said: "Whizzer, I see what you're saying, but who would be in charge of having to monitor that line? Box office staff are Union, and I doubt that their leadership would be happy with that added responsibility. And I doubt the producers want to hire security to essentially babysit a line of people round the clock, especially since people are spending days waiting for tickets. I think it would be best just to get rid of the line- it's gotten too out of hand. 

 

Wonderfulwizard, I am in complete agreement with you about getting rid of the line. If I were in charge of this whole thing I'd be drafting a press release this morning (or rather I would have done it weeks ago) for a formal announcement that the line was done for.

If the producers continue to want to use the line as the method for ticket distribution I think they need to rethink their rules and policies. I don't think they would need to hire a 24/7 babysitter, but at least have someone present at the time the line must disperse due to a performance beginning and then reappear after the performance to line everyone up again. (If I'm understanding things correctly, the only time people aren't allowed to stand on line is during the three hour performance window. Otherwise, per the rules, no one should ever be leaving the line except for short bathroom breaks and food runs.) All of this sounds like a lot more trouble than its worth IMO, but if the producers elect to use this method then they should deal with the consequences.

 

[schubox]

artscallion said: "Why don't they just have the simple rule that the line for a performance cannot begin to form until such a point when there will be no reason for the line to disperse. In other words, the line for the 8pm show cannot begin to form until 1/2 hour after the matinee has ended. If there is no matinee, it cannot begin to form until open of business that morning. That way the line is the line and if you leave, you lose.

As to the OP. I think the moment she turned down the matinee, she forfeited her place in line. End of story.

 

 

"

People pass on tickets all the time for various reasons. It hasn't kicked people out of line. And it is sort of in the theater's best interest to keep the line somewhat civil. If it's the wild west out there something dangerous is going to happen.

And the problem with having a set time that the line can form means you're going to have a group of people waiting to get in line. So you'll have a line for the line.

[LizzieCurry]

LesMiz24601 said: "I'd love to see an in depth article in the New Yorker or the Atlantic about the self appointed line leaders of the Hamilton cancellation line. "

It'd make for a really good This American Life. Seriously. Jump on the Hamilton train while you can, Ira.

[ljay889]

adam.peterson44 said:

On a separate note, it is even possible that patrons were complaining about the odors of people camping out for four days sitting next to them in the theater, and that the theater employee choosing people 'at random' might have actually been choosing people who had probably showered within the last 24 hours, as evidenced by their not having a drastic odor."

Bingo!!

[Jallenc32]

From how I read the official rules, because there's no swapping out or leaving the line, the line OFFICIALLY begins at the conclusion of the previous show.  It seems historically people on the line agreed to an additional set of rules among themselves, but nobody is required to follow the unofficial line rules.  I have to think this is what Jeremy complained about, and he was right to do so.  The now four day long "cancellation" line is really just a line to get to join the official line when it opens. 

[adamgreer]

Jallenc32 said: "From how I read the official rules, because there's no swapping out or leaving the line, the line OFFICIALLY begins at the conclusion of the previous show.  It seems historically people on the line agreed to an additional set of rules among themselves, but nobody is required to follow the unofficial line rules.  I have to think this is what Jeremy complained about, and he was right to do so.  The now four day long "cancellation" line is really just a line to get to join the official line when it opens. 

 

Exactly!

It sounds like Lord of the Flies out there until the line "officially" begins and people have every right to not follow the unofficial rules set forth by people sitting on an unofficial line. 

[Brian07663NJ]

4 nights on the street...96 hours...for a show! Do they still produce Hallmark made for tv movies?

If the rules were that the line STARTS at the conclusion of the current performance and this is a Lord of the Flies club...too bad. Jeremy sounds like he is going to be successful in life and the O.P. not. 

[Anakela]

Some friends and I were discussing what the situation outside the RR is going to look like at 10am on Wednesday, when the cancellation line "officially reopens." I'm picturing something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UdPZcXwMrQ

 

[NYadgal]

I agree with Whizzer and all those saying that new rules and regulations need to be stated and adhered to.

It's not up to the people in the line to make up their own rules.  Fair is fair.

[godlessondheimite]

Nelly posted this on reddit and tumblr too. Yowza.

[LizzieCurry]

Wow, Reddit is being nicer than I expected.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hamiltonmusical/comments/4pyt8y/my_hamilton_cancellation_line_experience_and_how/

[BroadwayConcierge]

Somebody writing ""Oh my goodness, I'm almost crying for you." in a completely earnest manner is why I don't visit Reddit.

[John Adams]

Someone needs to create an app for this.

That "someone" should be an unrelated, outside source (like NOT Ticketmaster, NOT the theater itself, etc.) with server space to manage the app. The app should be "universal" in the sense that there would be only ONE app that managed resale of cancellation tickets for ANY/ALL theaters that want to participate.

Theaters could choose to participate by paying a fee to outsource the handling of a "virtual line".

The sole purpose of the app would be to manage this virtual line. NO MONETARY TRANSACTION would take place between the app and the consumer, and no personal information need be collected. All sales would take place only at the individual theaters' box offices.

It would work like this:

    •    End Users would open the app to see a launch screen that listed the names of all participating theaters. No titles of shows would be listed - just the theater names, so that theaters would not need to update their data as shows opened or closed.
    •    End Users would click on the theater name and be taken to a screen where they would find details regarding the number of tickets available, and the time users would be able to join a “virtual line”.

THEATER’S RESPONSIBILITIES:
    1.    Establish a specific time of day that users would be able to get information RE: the number of available tickets. This information would be hard-coded into the app’s information screen.
    2.    On the day of the show, the theater would log into the app, prior to the pre-established time, and enter the number of available cancellation tickets.
    3.    In a separate field, the theater would also enter a number that represents a “no-show” buffer. The no-show buffer would accommodate for users who were assigned one of the available tickets, but failed to show up at the box office.

USER FUNCTIONS:
    1.    On the day of the show, users log-in to the app and select a theater from the launch screen.
    2.    The subsequent screen would show the following information:
         -    The the time that data RE: the number of available cancellation tickets will be available
         -    The number of available tickets (if known)
         -    a button that says, “Join the Line” (this button would be inactive until the time of day established by the theater)
    3.    If a theater has not yet entered the information, the user would see a message indicating, “Please check back later”

When the user clicks the “Enter the Line” button, their “click” would be assigned a unique ID and a time stamp, to the millisecond (in the case of any “ties”, the software randomly decides the order). The software would then generate a sequenced list (unseen by the user) based on the time stamp. This length of this list would be limited to the number of available tickets, plus the pre-established no-show buffer mentioned above.

The user would then receive an onscreen message stating the time frame they would need to be at the box office to purchase their ticket, as well as one of the following messages:
    1.    The order they appear on the list, and the Unique ID assigned to them
    2.    The order they appear on the list, the Unique ID assigned to them, plus an indicator that they are on the list as part of the no-show buffer (perhaps, simply a change of font color).
    3.    A message indicating that the quota has been reached and no more tickets are available for that performance.

The unique ID would be the key that allows the user to purchase their ticket at the box office

The theater would receive an auto-generated email that contained the ordered list, with the assigned Unique IDs. This list would then be used to sell the tickets to the patrons that present their Unique ID.

[10086sunset]

This thread is starting to rival Murin-Gate.

[Kad]

I think my favorite part of this is that the OP- and numerous others in this nonsense "unofficial line to wait in line"- could have gotten matinee tickets but decided not to because the cast attendance for that performance was not ideal for them.

The fact there is a "Hamilcamp" is absurd.

The fact it is governed by whoever is there is absurd.

The fact the people in this line expect people to obey arbitrary rules they came up with is absurd.

I don't know how much the theatre can prevent this line-to-wait-in-line from forming, but I think it should be dissolved as much as possible.

[Jordan Catalano]

I like this post from that link LOL  -


This is beyond awful. I can't imagine being the kind of person the RRT obviously employs, giving zero ****s about people who are this passionate about the show."

[Wick3]

John Adams said: "Someone needs to create an app for this.

That "someone" should be an unrelated, outside source (like NOT Ticketmaster, NOT the theater itself, etc.) with server space to manage the app. The app should be "universal" in the sense that there would be only ONE app that managed resale of cancellation tickets for ANY/ALL theaters that want to participate.

Theaters could choose to participate by paying a fee to outsource the handling of a "virtual line"."

Your app idea sounds great in theory but it fails in execution. I've done cancellation lines for Book of Mormon, Hedwig, Lion King, and Hamilton and most if not all of them sell cancellation tickets from the time the box office opens until showtime (with the majority if not all the tickets sold within the last 30-60 mins before show starts.) Also, only a few theaters would use the app since they tend to sell cancellation tickets if all other seats are sold out and if those house seats are not used.

[Kad]

They're not passionate. They're hangers on. When the next big thing comes, they'll jump ship.