Clinton vs. Trump: The Coming Landslide

[themysteriousgrowl]

It’s interesting that he thanked HeadButt for the link since

1. It didn’t address what PJ called her out on at all and

2. It more or less re-asserts what the Clinton supporters here have been describing as her evolution.

[BeadleDeedle]

I truly do not understand how the link the Headband posted bolsters an argument against Hillary on LGBT rights. So like the vast majority of people in the country her views on gay marraige evolved in the exact same time frame as everyone else's? And she never held anti-gay views in the first place? 

That's not evil. Or repugnant. What's repugnant is spreading misinformation and vitriol on topics one doesn't understand like this is all a damn game or something. 

[Kad]

Well, from that link Headband posted- which I suggest people actually read...

CLINTON: Well, I was fully on board with ending discrimination in the workplace on behalf of the LGBT community. I did not support gay marriage when I was in the Senate or running for president, as you know, and as President Obama and others held the same position.

Hillary on Fresh Air: June 2014.

 

[ErikJ972]

SCOTUS is not the most improtant issue of this election. I see kids die of poverty every year in the wealthiest country in the history of the world. To me that is the most important issue of this election. And they have to go to a public school system that has been sold to corporate America by Democratic lawmakers.We have a Democratic party that has largely turned it's back on the poor and has nominated a neo liberal war hawk.

This is the most depressing electioin of my lifetime. I feel despondent. Not hopeful. But I'll keep fighting evwn though the Democratic party is not.

[adamgreer]

CarlosAlberto said:If she had owed up to it and said something along the lines of "Yes, I did feel that way but now I've come to understand and I've changed my views...." then I could respect that. But this woman lies at the drop of a hat.

She does not hold herself accountable for anything she says or does...and I've seen it time and time again.

 

She's said that repeatedly about her Iraq war vote. She's gone on record as saying it was a "mistake."

 

[PalJoey]

 

Carlos--it is that NPR interview you keep referring to--in which she did NOT deny that she changed her position between the early 2000s and 2008. She did NOT deny that.

What she DID deny was Terry Gross's despicable insinuation--which you are repeating--that she did it ONLY for political gain. Do you and Terry Gross say that about Obama? About everyone's grandmother? NO you say it ONLY about Hillary Clinton.

That was beneath Terry Gross--and it's beneath you. 

Here are her words from that interview, which you are taking the wrong way:

 

“I think you’re trying to say I used to be opposed and now I’m in favor and I did it for political reasons, and that’s just flat wrong. So let me just state what I feel like you are implying and repudiate it. I have a strong record, I have a great commitment to this issue, and I am proud of what I’ve done and the progress we’re making.”
 

She is clearly saying "I repudiate your implication I that changed for political reasons." She is clearly NOT saying "I repudiate your implication that I was ever against gay marriage." 

The difference--and the crucial significance--between those two statements is the difference between respecting her and hating her.

And thank you, Kad, for pointing out that while she was coming around on marriage, she was taking the lead on other gay issues, like workplace discrimination.

 

[South Florida]

Hang in there Eric.  Hillary won't be so bad, we should rejoice that we're up against Trump.  As MadBrian and PJ have repeatedly stated for the last year, this is all about the SC.  Someday the poor will start voting and things will change in a hurry.

 

[CarlosAlberto]

PalJoey said: "Carlos--it is that NPR interview you keep referring to..."

Yes, that's the interview.

 

[CarlosAlberto]

themysteriousgrowl said: "That was in response to Headgear, dipstick..."

As it appeared right below mine it gave the impression that it was in direct response to my post.

I've never seen that interview you linked. I have a pretty good idea how video footage can be edited and manipulated to support an agenda. I used to work in television. But thanks for the "lesson"? I guess...

 

 

[BeadleDeedle]

CarlosAlberto said: "PalJoey said: "Carlos--it is that NPR interview you keep referring to..."

Yes, that's the interview.

So...you were wrong about that. Any other examples you want to share about how "evil" Hillary Clinton is? Besides how you "feel" of course. 

 

[South Florida]

I meant to say Erik, now that we're left with this choice it'a all about the SC.  For many of us this was all about poverty in the wealthiest nation in the world, but that candidacy died, it's time to move on and be happy that we saw the Sanders campaign at all.  We'll be back.

 

[CarlosAlberto]

BeadleDeedle said: "CarlosAlberto said: "PalJoey said: "Carlos--it is that NPR interview you keep referring to..."

Yes, that's the interview.

So...you were wrong about that. Any other examples you want to share about how "evil" Hillary Clinton is? Besides how you "feel" of course. 

Do you want me to start on Benghazi, the e-mails or how she blatantly took campaign contributions from Wall Street big-wigs and all of a sudden is against them.

Oh no that's not so because of course y'know something something blah, blah, blah....amirite? 

 

 

[themysteriousgrowl]

CarlosAlberto said: "themysteriousgrowl said: "That was in response to Headgear, dipstick..."

As it appeared right below mine it gave the impression that it was in direct response to my post.

I've never seen that interview you linked. I have a pretty good idea how video footage can be edited and manipulated to support an agenda. I used to work in television. But thanks for the "lesson"? I guess..."

Oh, okay. Because this previous assessment of what you saw...

"I have not been brainwashed PJ. I saw an interview with Clinton where they challenged her on her past views on same sex marriage. They quoted her past statements on it and on camera she flat out denied it and then they cut away and showed the actual interview where she stated quiet clearly that she was opposed to same sex marriage and that marriage should solely be between a man and a woman."

...sounds much more like that video than the Gross interview, which contains no cuts... or, for that matter, video footage. Surely you can see how this is confusing. You must have just misremembered your experience?

[BeadleDeedle]

CarlosAlberto said: 

Do you want me to start on Benghazi, the e-mails or how she blatantly took campaign contributions from Wall Street big-wigs and all of a sudden is against them.

Oh no that's not so because of course y'know something something blah, blah, blah....amirite? 

Uh, yeah, I guess I do want you to bring those subjects up. And then show me your sources. They'll be pretty simple to discuss and repudiate. 

 

Benghazi? Really? Like, seriously? I used to think much higher of you. Wow. 

 

[PalJoey]

Do you want me to start on Benghazi, the e-mails or how she blatantly took campaign contributions from Wall Street big-wigs and all of a sudden is against them.

 

Yes! Yes, I do! And then I want you to say if Obama sent and received those emails, fully knowing she was using the same kind of serve Colin Powell and GW Bush had used and tell me if Obama was evil because he sent her emails to that server.

Was he? Was he "evil"?

And then I want you to tell me if Obama is evil because he took campaign contributions from Big Pharma--and then was all of a sudden against them with Obamacare?

Was it "evil" when Obama did it? Or just when Hillary did it?

Where do you come off with this "evil" bull****? And why is it only against her?

 

 

[South Florida]

Carlos you must be crushed BeedleDeedle thinks less of you now.  Do you guys really think the Trump campaign meant to insult Jews?  Did they lift something from a white supremacist web site, yes, did they know that the star of David was going to cause a Jewish backlash, no, are they running an understaffed, ignorant campaign, yes.  I'm not sure but I read somewhere once Trump's Dad was Jewish, and didn't his daughter convert to Judaism?  When there is so much else to go after regarding this guy and his candidacy, why invent stuff?

[CarlosAlberto]

 

LMFPRAO!!!

Okay I can't keep up the charade anymore!

I'm not a huge fan of Hilary's but I don't out and out hate the woman!

But I must admit I had a lot of fun riling some of you up! Especially PJ who actually told me to STFU!!!

I apologize to those I've offended.

I originally intended to stop with the first post and reveal I was only kidding, but then it was just to good to let go especially with all the nasty reaction I was getting.

This was waaay too easy...thanks for the laughs!

 

[BeadleDeedle]

Oh. Trolling. Cool. 

Aight! Thanks for that lameness! 

[CarlosAlberto]

BeadleDeedle said: "Oh. Trolling. Cool. 

Aight! Thanks for that lameness! 

 

Oh calm down....it's not that serious.

 

 

[BeadleDeedle]

I'm calm. Was just trying to have a conversation about politics on the message board I like to frequent. Thanks for that super lame trolling ya did there though! Very funny! 

[themysteriousgrowl]

 

So, why aren't you a huge fan?

[Kad]

South Florida said: "Carlos you must be crushed BeedleDeedle thinks less of you now.  Do you guys really think the Trump campaign meant to insult Jews?  Did they lift something from a white supremacist web site, yes, did they know that the star of David was going to cause a Jewish backlash, no, are they running an understaffed, ignorant campaign, yes.  I'm not sure but I read somewhere once Trump's Dad was Jewish, and didn't his daughter convert to Judaism?  When there is so much else to go after regarding this guy and his candidacy, why invent stuff?"

NOTHING IS BEING INVENTED.

HE SHARED A LEGITIMATELY ANTI-SEMITIC IMAGE, FROM ANTI-SEMITIC SOURCES, AND IS TRYING TO CLAIM IT'S NOT ANTI-SEMITIC.

Do you not understand why that image is anti-Semitic? Do you not understand the symbolism there?

It doesn't matter if he, personally, is not anti-Semitic. He is, and has been, more than happy to share bigoted  material, and it has been endearing him to swaths of openly racist, bigoted, white nationalists. THAT IS THE ISSUE.

 

I swear, I'm half expecting Victoria Clark to come out sometime soon and sing about how a pony kicked you.

 

 

[HorseTears]

Jesus Christ, Carlos.  I'm not an armchair psychologist, so I won't offer an unsolicited diagnosis, but, yikes.  Okay, you were just kidding...if you say so.  

 

I really feel like we (meaning, the collective populace) turn into emotional children when discussing Presidential politics.  Let's not kid ourselves.  Hillary probably personally supported marriage equality all along.  Obama, too.  Hell, Obama was on record as supporting marriage equality before he was opposed to it.  This notion that they "evolved" is probably bull****.  I think using the term "lied" leads to these unproductive emotional outbursts.  So, let's not say they "lied", but that they withheld their true core beliefs until it was politically feasible to support our community.  And, you know what, as an openly gay man who worked tirelessly for marriage equality, I get it.  If Obama had announced his support for marriage equality in 2008, we would have lived through a John McCain / Sarah Palin presidency.  Hillary and Obama are both pragmatic and, yes, lawyerly people.  They believe in incremental progress that can be sustained over the long term.  Now, progress doesn't happen without the loud, pushy activists at the fringes.  I salute those who speak truth to power and who push tirelessly for progress, but I don't think we want an activist in the White House, we want someone who will get **** done.  

 

But, yeah, if you live in a firmly blue state like California, go ahead and vote for Dr. Jill [LOL] Stein.  

 

[South Florida]

"It doesn't matter if he, personally, is not anti-Semitic."

Yes, staff members if not him personally are pulling stuff off of these websites, they're obviously incompetent, but to me it does matter if I was called things that I am not, much like PJ has done in this and other threads.

[South Florida]

Well said Horse Tears, Growlie, you're a very funny person.  I can't talk politics on Facebook because a lot of my friends and family are super conservative, and the liberal friends I have don't want to be bothered with discourse.  Thanks folks of BWW.

[HorseTears]

South Fl - pal, I know your heart is in the right place, but I think you're misinterpreting PJ's comments.  I don't think he's equating you with the likes of David Duke.  This can be difficult for my straight, white, male friends to understand, but it's not up to you when/if/how a minority group reacts to or identifies bigotry.  Stop dismissing the concerns of minority groups because you don't think it's a big deal.  

 

But, you do not need to be Jewish to recognize the classic, insidious kind of dog-whistling happening when the Trump campaign posts those types of images.  A short while ago, Dana Schwartz, a writer for the NY Observer, penned a scathing open letter to Jared Kushner, owner of the paper and Trump's son-in-law, regarding the obvious anti-semitism in the Trump campaign. I urge you to read her letter before dismissing this as political correctness or over-sensitivity.