clinton vs. sanders your vote?

[qolbinau]

PalJoey said: " 

And Donald Trump makes even more from speeches. Guess what? That's not the point.

We're electing who gets to nominate lifetime Supreme Court justices and decide whether or not to drop a nuclear bomb, not who makes more or less on the rubber-chicken circuit.

And, for the record, Jane release ONE year's tax return. One only: 2014. NOT the year she got the $200,000 golden parachute for bankrupting the college.

"

Exactly, so why are we worrying about Bernie Sanders' tax returns? His income is so low that it seems pointless to argue over what he might have claimed as a meal expense, for example, when there are more important issues - like who voted in favour for the Iraq War (which killed hundreds of thousands of people and has led to instability in the region helping the rise of ISIS) or who is claiming they want to take big money interests out of politics while at the same time accepting donations from big money interests and hiding the speeches they gave to big money interests.

I honestly hope Hillary can think of a way to overcome these criticisms in the presidential debate when Trump brings both of these issues up. It's these kinds of issues that has led to Bernie Sanders getting nearly as much following as Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump can only capitalise on this given he has been outspoken that he has always been against the Iraq War (even if that point is untrue, he will say it anyway) and that he is not 'bought' by big money interests with a self-funded campaign. 

Bernie: "Hillary, release your speeches."

Hillary: "No."

Well, no one is going to think that's suspicious. 

[qolbinau]

.

[PalJoey]

For the umpteenth time, no one cares about the speeches.

[South Florida]

Forget it qolbinau, borstal, this is PJ's fantasy land where nobody cares about speeches, e-mails, etc..., and all the voters love her.  

[Liza's Headband]

PalJoey said: "For the umpteenth time, no one cares about the speeches.

 

"

 

The majority of America -- including me -- doesn't care about the speeches. To suggest that "no one" cares, however, is just categorically false. Unless you don't consider Bernie Sander's supporters part of this country anymore... 

[PalJoey]

 

I bet these people "care" about the speeches.

 

ROLLING STONE: Pro-Bernie Trolls on Why They Harassed Nevada's Democratic Chair: Here's what several men had to say for themselves after threatening Roberta Lange and calling her a "b-tch"

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/pro-bernie-trolls-on-why-they-harassed-nevadas-democratic-chair-20160518

[Borstalboy]

Someone says "bitch" and its all the rave, a few nutjobs send death threats and my goodness people won't stop talking about it.  You'd think Nevada was a transgendered bathroom or something!  The real story and yes, everyone should care about this:

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/05/20/i_watched_hillary_clintons_forces_swipe_nevada_this_is_what_the_medias_not_telling_you/

[Borstalboy]

And here:

 

https://johnlaurits.com/2016/05/15/what-happened-at-the-nevada-democratic-state-convention/

[PalJoey]

 

That's a disgusting piece of writing--calling fellow Democrats "brownshirts."

Don't you and the author know that when you use Nazi comparisons, you disqualify yourself?

Ugh. The quicker this is wrapped up, the better for the party--and the progressive movement.

 

[BrerBear]

Only the Sanders camp cares about the speeches, which everyone knows won't contain anything scandalous, but will contain embarrassing compliments to the people she's addressing. Attendees have already characterized them as such. Perhaps she'll release them after Bernie concedes, because the majority of the country won't find that problematic.

But corporate donations and speeches is not fertile ground for attacks from Trump. He not only gave similar speeches, but he just reneged on his promise to self-finance, and now he is taking in big PAC donations.

[best12bars]

Face it, Bernie Sanders, it's over.

My sentiments exactly. Very well stated here.

[PalJoey]

The longer he stays in, the more he hurts the progressive cause.

[best12bars]

I think the biggest "WTF" from his supporters is their belief that the only reason he's losing is because of corruption in the polls, the media, the caucuses, and the primaries.

How about it's that not enough voters think he's the best choice for president? Did you ever consider that?

[Kad]

How can Hillary forces "swipe" a state she won by 5%?

[Borstalboy]

A Vote For Hillary Is A Vote For War, Part, 3,0692.  Something the Hillary-bots will gleefully ignore:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/9/hillary-clinton-threatens-war-enforce-iran-deal/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

[PalJoey]

 

What are you doing reading The Washington Times? It's a right-wing organ.

 

[madbrian]

I know we have a bunch of folks on this board who were hardcore HRC suporters back in 2008.  I wonder if some of them could talk about to what extent, if any, they were anti-Obama, and describe the process by which they eventually supported him.  Maybe hearing stories like that might help folks on both sides of the current find some solace.

[PalJoey]

 

The minute Hillary said she was suspending her campaign, I was 100% for Obama--and so was she! 

I expect nothing less from Bernie and his supporters.

 

[madbrian]

PJ - what was your mindset before she suspended?

[theaterdrew]

On Face the Nation this morning, they showed a statistic that at this same time in the 2008 campaign, 60% of Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama, whereas this campaign, 73% of Sanders supporters say they will vote for Clinton.  Social media is simply giving the remainder a louder voice than their numbers deserve.  

In 2008, I was outspokenly pro-Clinton  I saw Obama as akin to Jimmy Carter as someone riding a popular wave but who would then struggle to navigate the political waters in Washington.  (aka Sanders this year.)  However, I subsequently canvassed for Obama, and in that capacity, was able to talk with registered Dems who said they weren't going to support Obama.  A good number of those people were racially motivated, as a good number this campaign as driven by either overt and implicit bias against a female candidate.  I can't say for sure, but I did feel at the time that hearing from a Clinton supporter how it was a no-brainer that we had to elect Obama made some kind of difference.

[PalJoey]

 

PJ - what was your mindset before she suspended?

 

I was hoping that she would become the candidate and he would run with her as VP, and that after the eight years of her presidency, we would have eight years of his.

It looks to me like I will get my wish--but reversed! (Or inside out?) 

But at any rate, it looks like we will have the 16 years of Democratic presidents I wished for--and maybe more!

 

...

[HorseTears]

theaterdrew said: "On Face the Nation this morning, they showed a statistic that at this same time in the 2008 campaign, 60% of Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama, whereas this campaign, 73% of Sanders supporters say they will vote for Clinton.  Social media is simply giving the remainder a louder voice than their numbers deserve.  "

 

Exactly.  You can't assume that the loudest are the most representative.  Things were pretty damn ugly late in the 2008 primary with both the Obama and Clinton campaigns saying some pretty harsh things about each other. Let's not forget when Hillary said that Obama was not Muslim... "as far as I know" or how she repeatedly said that Obama wouldn't be able to win over white voters or when Bill went around calling Obama's campaign the biggest fairy tale he'd ever seen - something many African American voters found offensive and condescending. Stupid, ugly **** gets said in an election.   Everyone licked their wounds and moved on for the better of the country.  

 

In November of this year, most of us will have long forgotten about the primary and, after a summer filled with contrasts between Hillary and Trump, I have little doubt that the vast majority of Sanders' supporters will vote for her.  

 

[PalJoey]

 

Markos at the DailyKos has the last word:

 

DAILYKOS: 11 reasons why Bernie Sanders lost this thing fair and square

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/23/1529938/-11-reasons-why-Bernie-Sanders-lost-this-thing-fair-and-square

 

[Auggie27]

The only consolation is the further marginalization of the more rabid Sanders advocates.  If FB offers anecdotal evidence of anything, and one has to be careful surveying the shifts among a particular set of "friends" as a trend, it's proof that the majority of still-gonna-win-it styled Sanders posts tend to sit "unliked" now. Among the people I know, many admittedly acquaintances, the conversations are more often generated below posted pieces like the one PalJoey cites. Disgust at the thought of this sustained acrimony putting Trump in the White House. There's a decided whiff of backlash against the stench of bitterness permeating the she-is-stealing-it mindset.  Again, anecdotal, but the winds have shifted.  

[PalJoey]

This is how I see the conversation evolving:on my social media:

 

I Can’t Make You Love Hillary, but What if We’re Both Right? The Radical Argument for Unity

I’m a Millennial guy. I’m an actor. I live in Los Angeles. I’m voting for Hillary. Bernie friends, don’t stop reading...

https://www.willhillarywin.com/2016/05/23/i-cant-make-you-love-hillary-but-what-if-were-both-right-the-radical-argument-for-unity/

[PalJoey]

 

Harry Enten at 538.com predicts that Hillary will tie up the bundle between that closing of the polls in New Jersey and the closing of the polls in California on June 7. The networks will race to declare her the nominee and the media narrative will change entirely.

 

538.com: Clinton Will Likely Clinch The Democratic Nomination In New Jersey

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-will-likely-clinch-the-democratic-nomination-in-new-jersey/