Hamilton ticket prices-seriously?

[jnb9872]

A racist wall, indeed.

[Mr Roxy]

Philly

Changing your avatar is like putting a bandaid on a wound made by a chain saw. It ain't gonna help.

Philly, I debunk your whole thesis. I am white and I cannot afford the ridiculously high prices as both my wife and I are retired & living on Social Security & a modest IRA

Kind of takes the wind out of your argument .

[Phillypinto]

I can barely afford it too but in general, they can afford it even less.

[broadwaysfguy]

 

I will avoid the philly stuff, though unfortunately not suprised...

Theatre is still affordable for most americans with all the discounting of most shows, and discounts for students, seniors, and the lotteries which i think are all great ideas.

 

I also think more musicals and theatre should be filmed and broadcast to reach even more people, and large scale live performances in big arenas and stadiums like the muny in st louis.

musical theatre is a wonderful any unqiuely american art form, and I would hate to see it de-evolve to the level of classical, ballet and opera where it can only be performed through heavy subsidies and sponsorship and crazy tix prices....

Glad to hear about the 167 mezz and side orch which is more in line with other top shows for great seats. I guess id rather have the owners and artists make money vs scalpers, and generally a supply and demand guy

was just shocked to see prices I hadnt seen since the producers and I dont think Hamilton is the producers, and will be curious to see how many tonys it actually wins.....

For anyone who has seen Hamilton is it the best musical youve ever seen or even the best musical of the 2000s?

 

[Mr Roxy]

Philly

Trying to have an intelligent discussion with you is an exercise in futility

Have fun

[Phillypinto]

Mr Roxy, go suck an egg

[Mr Roxy]

The defense rests

 

[sueb1863]

Remember how shocked people were when it cost $100 a ticket to see Nicholas Nickleby in 1981? Seems downright quaint now...

[Mr Roxy]

That it does 

The scary thing is we will be saying the same thing over these crazy prices in a few years.

[Phillypinto]

If this continues, Broadway will overprice themselves out of business

[Pauly3]

Phillypinto,

I don't know you, and I'm not ready to conclude you are a total conniving a**hole (despite the mountain of evidence that says you are exactly that), but is it not possible someone here holds slightly more wisdom than you?  You can't say "they" when referring to an entire class of people and then make a disparaging remark about "them" AND expect that to be OK.  And when you're called out on the comment (over and over again), can you not take a half step back and consider just maybe YOU were wrong?  Grown ups - and many children - can do that!

[Phillypinto]

I truly understand what you're saying, and I get where people are coming from, but they have to understand where i'm coming from as well. I live in a town that has a good amount of color in it. Doing theatre in high school with mostly black people, they wanted to go to Broadway but couldn't afford it. Of course theres white people in the same boat, but the point is, I barely ever see black people in the theatre even when seeing a show like After Midnight. Theres something to be said about that. Im not afraid to talk about it even if people on this board grill me for it. Cause i have balls!!

[Mr Roxy]

Big difference between balls & common sense

Common sense is not walking into a cage of lions

 

[Pauly3]

With a little practice, Phillypinto, you might be able to state your position, let everyone know where you're coming from and demonstrate those huge balls of yours without making everyone hate you.

Here's some constructive criticism:  No one can tell where you're coming from because much of what you choose to say emanates from a place right behind those balls of yours.  Choose your words more carefully.  If you're sincere and want to be understood, try another approach.  Your previous and current style ain't workin'.

[Phillypinto]

"No one can tell where you're coming from because much of what you choose to say emanates from a place right behind those balls of yours.  Choose your words more carefully.  If you're sincere and want to be understood, try another approach.  Your previous and current style ain't workin'."

 

thats really exactly what it is. Nobody knows the spirit in which i speak. Plus I don't really beat around the bush. People would rather me choose my words more carefully, but honestly, no matter how i say it, I still mean the same thing. 

[ggersten]

""No one can tell where you're coming from because much of what you choose to say emanates from a place right behind those balls of yours.  Choose your words more carefully.  If you're sincere and want to be understood, try another approach.  Your previous and current style ain't workin'."
 
thats really exactly what it is. Nobody knows the spirit in which i speak. Plus I don't really beat around the bush. People would rather me choose my words more carefully, but honestly, no matter how i say it, I still mean the same thing. "

 

The Hatter opened his eyes very wide on hearing this; but all he SAID was, `Why is a raven like a writing-desk?'

`Come, we shall have some fun now!' thought Alice. `I'm glad they've begun asking riddles.--I believe I can guess that,' she added aloud.

`Do you mean that you think you can find out the answer to it?' said the March Hare.

`Exactly so,' said Alice.

`Then you should say what you mean,' the March Hare went on.

`I do,' Alice hastily replied; `at least--at least I mean what I say--that's the same thing, you know.'

`Not the same thing a bit!' said the Hatter. `You might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see"!'

`You might just as well say,' added the March Hare, `that "I like what I get" is the same thing as "I get what I like"!'

`You might just as well say,' added the Dormouse, who seemed to be talking in his sleep, `that "I breathe when I sleep" is the same thing as "I sleep when I breathe"!'

`It IS the same thing with you,' said the Hatter, and here the conversation dropped, and the party sat silent for a minute, while Alice thought over all she could remember about ravens and writing-desks, which wasn't much.

[Phillypinto]

bla bla bla apples and oranges 

[nicnyc]

In response to broadwaysfguy, I've been going to Broadway shows for 34 years and have literally seen hundreds of shows over the years.  Hamilton is definitely one of the best shows I've ever seen, certainly top 5.  It is undoubtedly the most creative, original and groundbreaking show I have seen in my lifetime.  I saw it at the Public and have already bought two more sets of tickets to see it this Fall with friends who have not yet seen it (though I bought the side orchestra seats since I have yet to win the lottery).

[bilingual]

"Changing your avatar is like putting a bandaid on a wound made by a chain saw. It ain't gonna help."

 

The only good thing about Phillypinto changing his avatar every day is that it has taught me Jerry Mitchell has a hot bod.

[Phillypinto]

I thought everybody knew that. And I don't change my avatar everyday

[bilingual]

You were Barbra Streisand yesterday. It's changed several times since you returned from the abyss.

[DivaProf]

De-lurking just to respond to this thread.  I actually understand the point that is being made, I just wish it had been stated more sensitively.  It is true that a higher percentage of Blacks and Hispanics live in poverty compared to Whites, but according to national data, the majority of Blacks and Hispanics aren't poor.  So most probably have the means to attend a Broadway show on occasion.

I am African American and I love theatre, but have of course noticed the lack of diversity at most Broadway shows.  That said, when I attend shows that appeal to broader audiences (The Color Purple, A Raisin in the Sun, Stick Fly, A Streetcar Named Desire with Blair Underwood, etc...), I have noticed more diversity in the audience.  I also live in Atlanta and have seen a few plays at Kenny Leon's True Colors theatre.  The audiences are overwhelmingly Black and the runs are usually sold out.  

So I don't see the issue as a lack of disposable income, but rather a lack of appeal.  From what I've observed, when theatre appeals to Black audiences, they attend.  I saw Hamilton at the Public and will be seeing it again in July.  I do think Hamilton has the potential to attract a younger and more diverse crowd than many other Broadway shows but the price point could be off-putting to many, particularly those that aren't particularly interested in theatre.    

[Rob120]

Ok, I've only ever responded on boards in an informational capacity but this nonsense is too much.  Pinto, you have proven yourself time and time again to be uneducated and misinformed when it comes to the business of Broadway.  I'll bypass the Living on Love and An American in Paris conversations and the bi-phobic drivle of the past and get onto the racist and bigoted absurdity of the day.  1: Most people not in an upper income bracket have a hard time going to Broadway shows without lotteries, rush tickets, or other discounts, especially with any regularity.  2: if you want to see more Black or Latino people at Broadway shows, check out a show that appeals to the specific audience.  Attendance from Black audience members skyrocketed when Cinderella recast the title role and Madame with Black actresses.   Also, Black patrons were largely in attendance for such productions as A Raisin in the Sun (both of the recent revivals), Fences, Stick Fly, The Color Purple, The Mountaintop, and the recent tour of Dreamgirls.  This is not a guess, this is what I saw from seeing these productions numerous times.  As for Latino audiences, the revival of West Side Story and In The Heights had huge audiences of Latino theatregoers.  You can attribute this to people wanting to see a show that strikes a chord specifically to them.  This is also why revivals of shows like A Chorus Line often have a noticeably larger homosexual audience, or why Fun Home has gotten a large lesbian audience, or why jukebox musicals bring in new and non-traditional audiences who are less likely to see the other shows mentioned.  People spend money on what appeals to them.  Perhaps the Broadway fare that appeals to you is less likely to appeal to other groups of people.  And 3: If a show actually does have the rare Mass Appeal, you will likely see people of all walks of life there, for example recently for me this was the case at The Audience.  I guess Helen Mirren can truly break barriers and bring the people together.  End Rant.

[Phillypinto]

I understand what you're saying, and I've thought about that a lot, but I have also seen shows that would be of interest to blacks and hispanics and still barely see black or hispanic people. 

[Phillypinto]

"So I don't see the issue as a lack of disposable income, but rather a lack of appeal. "

 

I'm sure money plays a huge factor as well

[EchoParker]

"You have no idea where I come from, which is the furthest place from a white town. Please explain to me how I am full of bigotry and hate?"

I love that the message board now puts numbers on our comments! This is useful. It will help me refer to certain posts above, all by a poster who goes by "Phillypinto".

In post #9, Pinto writes "How do they (producers) expect blacks and hispanics to see the show at these prices?"

In post #16: "It's a fact that blacks and hispanics don't have as much money as white people do in this world"

#20: "I'm definitely not racist"

#20: "I am for blacks and hispanics"

#24: "When I said I was 'for them' I meant I am not racist"

#24: "I don't think they can afford (theatre) as much as white people can"

#31: "Please explain to me how I am full of bigotry and hate."

Dear Pinto - regarding #31: thanks for asking! I'm happy to help. And I mean that. Honestly. Okay, I guess, more honestly, I'm happy to TRY to help. Would you like to be helped? That part is up to you. When you use the phrase "Please explain to me," are you actually asking that someone explain something to you? Quite possibly not. But... here goes.

Again - honestly - I am writing this in an effort to help. Might not help you, but it could help someone else who innocently got on this thread to read about the ticket prices at "Hamilton", and instead ended up confused as to what racism is.

First helpful fact: racism is really easy to explain, and really easy to identify. It's easy to identify when others make racist statements, and it's easy to identify when you yourself type racist statements on a comment thread, and - once you learn to identify racist statements - it's easy to go "oops! I just typed something racist!" and then delete it.

Second helpful fact: to make a racist statement is not necessarily to be bigoted or hateful. It isn't! Racism sometimes isn't even hurtful! Sometimes it's just... racist!

So, to be fair, you've asked me (well, you've asked someone) to explain to you how you're full of bigotry and hate, and I'm going to let you down there, because I don't know for certain that you're either a bigot, or hateful. And I GUESS, technically, I can't even claim to know you're a racist. But I do know that you make racist statements. You write things that are racist. You use racist language.

"I'm definitely not racist" you write in post #20. Okay. But you did WRITE something racist in post #9. And in post #16. And post #24. AND in post #20, right after you wrote "I'm definitely not racist".

So - what is racism?

Let's start with generalizations.

I go to a salad place for dinner quite often. Sometimes, there's a guy behind the counter named Ken. Ken is extremely friendly to me, he always greets me by name, and seems quite genuinely happy to see me.

True statement: Ken is very friendly.

True statement: Ken works at a salad place.

Generalization: Guys named Ken are very friendly.

Generalization: Guys who work at salad places are friendly.

Generalization: Guys who work at salad places are named Ken.

When you take a characteristic about one person, and then assign that characteristic to a whole group of people - that's a generalization.

Note that generalizations aren't necessarily offensive. They CAN be. "People who live in New Jersey are racist." See - that's offensive. Also a generalization.

But when they're not being offensive, generalizations are almost always ridiculous. "Guys who work at salad places are named Ken." Who would make such a silly, ridiculous generalization?

So... racism is a generalization (assigning the characteristic of one person to a whole group of people) when the GROUP is... a whole race of people.

Fact: Ken, the friendly salad guy, is black.

Generalization: Guys named Ken are very friendly.

Racism: Black people are very friendly.

Yup. It's as simple as that. That's a racist statement. You notice that it's not at all offensive. But it is ridiculous. It's ridiculous to assign a characteristic to a whole race of people, even if it's a positive characteristic. There ARE friendly black people. And unfriendly black people. But the entire race is neither all-friendly, or all-unfriendly. Of course it isn't. IT'S AN ENTIRE RACE OF PEOPLE. And, just as importantly, the fact that Ken is friendly has nothing to do with him being black. 

Every statement of yours I quoted above is racist. And ridiculous. 

"It's a fact that blacks and hispanics don't have as much money as white people do" is a racist statement. And a ridiculous, ludicrous, silly statement. You're assigning one income bracket (low) to the entire race of black people, and the entire race of hispanics, and another income bracket (higher than low) to another entire race of people. 

"I am for blacks and hispanics" is a racist statement. You are "for" (or "in favor of", or "on the side of") every person in both those races? Of course you're not. 

"When I said I was 'for them', I meant I am not racist." Okay, perhaps that's what you meant, but, sadly, you proved yourself racist by saying it, and then double proved it by saying it again.

And, I'm sad to tell you (but happy to educate you) that not only are the above two statements racist, they are both really, really, really offensive. To say you are 'for blacks' is offensive? Yes, yes it is. To tell any person who is black that you - in some part of your brain - lump him in with every other person who is black, just by nature of them all having the same (or similar) skin color... this is racist and offensive. To think of ALL people of any one race as a "them" - to actually USE the word "them" - is to reduce each and every one of those individuals to ONE aspect of their humanness: their race, or skin color.

#24: "I don't think they can afford theatre as much as white people can." Can you see, now, how absolutely ridiculous this statement is? (I really hope - I really, really, really hope you can.) Who is the "THEY" in this statement? Who are the white people in this statement? Are there blacks and hispanics who CAN'T afford theatre? Yup. Are there white people who can? Yup. Are there white people who can't afford theatre? Uh-oh. Yes, there are. Are there black and hispanic people who could BUY a Broadway theatre? Of course there are! Because being of one certain race does not equal being of one certain income bracket. And making a statement in which every member of a race ("white people") shares a single, personal characteristic ("can afford $400 theatre seats")... that's racism. It's also ridiculous. Right?

(By the way - a side note. The definition of "ridiculous" is "deserving of ridicule". You get so MAD when people on these boards ridicule you - when you post some statement, and suddenly 6 people are ridiculing you. Next time this happens, word to the wise: it's probably because you said something ridiculous.)

So now that you know (I really, really hope that you know) what racism is, you should be able to identify, just after you type something like #24, that you're about to post something racist. And ridiculous. And then, you can ask yourself: what if I DIDN'T make this a racist statement - what if I didn't assign a personal characteristic (low income) to a whole race of people, or two whole races of people - and another single characteristic (wealth) to another whole race of people? What if I - acknowledging that people's personal characteristics cannot be boiled down to what RACE they are - decided to remove race from my post altogether? What would my post look like then? Perhaps: "I don't think poor people can afford theatre as much as rich people can."

And there it is! An entirely racist free post! Racist free, and also true, and not at all ridiculous. 

Next week: sexism ("men are bad drivers") and ageism ("old people hate tacos").