The case with OLIVER the Musical

[Bilbo3]

Posted: 4/9/15 at 7:14pm

 I was watching the film OLIVER a few nights ago and I forgot how creepy and dark the film really is. Or at least the material.  Children sleeping in coffins, starving boys begging for food, Domestic violence. And people say Matilda isn't for children...

Despite it's darkness, It seems to be a family favorite. Many were predicting it as a possible NBC live broadcast option. So even with the dark material, what do you think makes Oliver so Popular? The catchy songs I'm sure have something to do with it.

While watching the film, I noticed that while the material is dark, the execution  is presented in a light hearted and sometimes campy way.  Which might by why it was able to nab the Oscar for Best Picture.

I just find it to be a very elusive musical, that on paper, should flop with the family and just about anyone else. Yet it soars and is a favorite for community theatres, Broadway, London and the world.  Just wanted to know your thoughts on why the film and musical exceeds in every way you think it never would.

Updated On: 4/10/15 at 07:14 PM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 2:54pm

Your post has encouraged me to listen to Oliver! for the first time in my life (the original recording). Most of it didn't interest me very much at all. I've long had an affection for As Long As He Needs Me (because of Patti LuPone), but most of the rest of the score I found irritating. I'm not sure if the actors were British, but their accents were downright obnoxious. Yes, I know it's a show that takes place in the gutter and therefore all the characters are cockney, but oy gevalt. I did like the opening about Food Glorious Food though (and hearing which of the boys could sing on pitch and which could not). On the whole, I didn't love it.

I tried to watch the movie several years ago and got about 30 minutes in before I shut it off, and that's very rare for me; I usually will try to make it through any movie.

Updated On: 4/10/15 at 02:54 PM

[Fantod]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 2:56pm

I wanna see the one woman version with Sutton Foster

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 3:26pm

Classic work of literature about a downtrodden orphan who perseveres through hardships to arrive at a happy ending by being adopted into a wealthy family.  Dickens wasn't as big on cutesy as the Little Orphan Annie adaptation, but the musical does soften much of the source material with big-hearted catchy tunes like Consider Yourself, It's a Fine Life, I'd Do Anything and Who Will Buy.

 

gypsy101 - I wasn't a huge fan of the show or the score until the 1994 London revival recording.  Then I suddenly fell in love with it and listened to it constantly for several months.  I saw the revival of that revival in 2009 (mainly to see Jodie Prenger) and absolutely loved it (except for Rowan Atkinson, who was more inclined to do his schtick rather than stay in character).

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 4:11pm

Matt, the revival of that revival (which I think had new Bourne choreography,) dropped the new prologue, right?

I dunno--Dickens has a lot of things families do love.  His stories are a big soap opera of social issues, the grotesque, mixed with often very idealized (and even bland) young romance and over the top humorous caricatures (for good and bad characters.)  Oliver! was one of the first musicals I was obsessed with when I was 4-5.  Things used to scare me badly--often ridiculous things--but it never did.  I wanted to be one of the pickpocketers (or at least share a bunk with the Artful Dodger, the first crush I can remember...)

Of course, while I think I was a fairly bright kid, Nancy's death went over my head.  I knew that Sykes beat her and I just assumed he beat her more, but not to death.

The movie has some strengths over the stage original in terms of the book and the pacing (and making songs like Oom Pah Pah have some plot purpose.)  I believe the CamMac/Sam Mendes revival Mister Matt mentions incorporated some of these (in his last years Bart also composed some new music for it--not just the prologue I mentioned.)

Updated On: 4/10/15 at 04:11 PM

[mikey2573]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 4:13pm

I wonder if that "schtick" was just Rowan Atkinson's idea or if it was encouraged by the director and producer, since most of the Fagin follow-ups kept that schtick or came up with their own.  When I saw it, Fagin even made a reference to Lady Gaga, which completely took me out of the play, despite the fact that most in the audience found it funny. 

 

 

[broadwayboy223]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 4:46pm

The best part of Oliver is Nancy and As Long As He Needs Me. The rest is terrible. 

[wonkit]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 7:22pm

Children's "literature" - especially the classic fairy tales like Grimm and H.C. Anderson - are incredibly dark and scary. Children were treated like little adults until the 20th Century and were not protected from (and often experienced) physical, sexual and mental hardships. The musical of Oliver is no where near as terrifying as the Dickens original - but the addition of music takes the edge off a lot of stories. Children tend to disregard what they don't understand so younger children these days just take in what they like and ignore the rest.

 

I happen to love the musical but have not seen a live production since 1968.

[The Other One]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 7:41pm

" Yet it sores and is a favorite for community theatres, Broadway, London and the world. "

I think you mean "soars."  I'm not one to correct every misspelled word, but "sores" just isn't what you meant to say.

Updated On: 4/10/15 at 07:41 PM

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 8:06pm

Kids are wusses now. 

[Bilbo3]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 8:56pm

"I tried to watch the movie several years ago and got about 20 minutes in before I shut it off, and that's very rare for me; I usually will try to make it through any movie"

Can't blame you for shutting it off 20 minutes in. But I encourage you to watch it all the way through. The film really picks up when Oliver meets Artful Dodger and Fagin.

The supporting performances of Ron Moody (Fagin), Nancy (Shani Wallis) and Artful Dodger ( Jack Wild) completely outshine Oliver (Mark Lester). It's a very strong supporting cast and the truth of the matter is, The character Oliver really isn't very interesting to begin with.

Ron Moody is the real star of the film. He gives a perfect blend of a subtle nuance performance mixed with a show stopping leading man. It really is a tour de force performance, no wonder he was nominated in the leading category for the Oscars. You can tell his character is on a ongoing struggle between right and wrong. His eyes spoke to the audience so well.

I also noticed while watching the film that every song is pretty much near perfection. The songs are pretty perfect and not a bad one in the whole film. The execution of the songs are very visceral and touching. Even when they are placed in the small shack of Fagin's house, the choreography and camera work are brilliant. I had Goosebumps watching "I'd do anything".

I feel that I have answered my own question. I now understand why Oliver is such a hit with the masses. It's an odd weird blend of dark and bleak mixed with an old time classic Broadway style aura. Think of Sweeney Todd  meets Hello Dolly.

I'm not sure I would say it's a perfect blend. The material shifts here and there and sometimes I felt the tone of the film wasn't always even. It would be interesting to see an R rated version of the film where the grim bleak world is really put under a magnifying glass and the horrors of what the main character has to endure are analyzed and accounted for (without the tap dancing shoes *wink*). But in all I find this G rated film close to perfect for what it is. Uneven at times but the supporting performances of Ron, Jack and Shani, make you forget about the flaws when they sparkle onscreen.

[sueb1863]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 9:08pm

I think it's always been viewed as a family sort of show - here it is in the Ed Sullivan show with Davy Jones as the Artful Dodger:

 

 

 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 10:15pm

"I think it's always been viewed as a family sort of show - here it is in the Ed Sullivan show with Davy Jones as the Artful Dodger:

 
 
 "

Fun fact: That was the same Ed Sullivan episode where The Beatles made their American TV debut.

Georgia Brown was really something in that clip. Such a natural actress.

Updated On: 4/10/15 at 10:15 PM

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 4/11/15 at 4:28pm

I wasn't a huge fan of the show or the score until the 1994 London revival recording.  Then I suddenly fell in love with it and listened to it constantly for several months."

I love that recording! I believe the '03 NET of that production was one of my first theater auditions, before they switched the premiere location from St. Paul to Denver. 

My favorites on that CR are "Who Will Buy?" and "Pick-A-Pocket"