Who do you believe killed JFK?

[PalJoey]

Exactly.

Today is the 50th anniversary of the day Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is Gerald Posner's account from CASE CLOSED of what Jack Ruby did from the time he woke up 50 years ago this morning until the moment he shot the gun:

Ruby parked across the street from the Western Union station, only one block from police headquarters, near 11:05. He left his favorite dog, Sheba, in the car. He would only be gone a few minutes. At Western Union, he filled out the forms for sending $25 to Karen Carlin. Then he patiently waited in line while another customer completed her business. According to the clerk, Ruby was in no hurry. It was impossible for him to know that Oswald had not been transferred, since there was no television or radio at the Western Union office. There was a public telephone, but Ruby did not use it. When he got to the counter, the cost for sending the moneygram totaled $26.87. He handed over $30 and waited for his change while the clerk finished filling out the forms and then time-stamped the document “Ruby’s receipt was stamped 11:17.

When he left Western Union, he was less than two hundred steps from the entrance to police headquarters. On the third floor, police had informed Oswald shortly after 11:00 that they would take him downstairs and move him to the sheriffs jail. He asked if he could change his clothes. Captain Fritz sent for some sweaters, and when they were brought to him, Oswald put on a beige one, and then changed his mind before switching to a black sweater. Then he announced he was ready to leave. If Oswald had not decided at the last moment to get a sweater, he would have left the jail almost five minutes earlier, while Ruby was still inside the Western Union office.

Now, Ruby walked the one block along Main Street and stopped near the eight-foot-wide ramp way. It was guarded by policeman E. R. Vaughn. At 11:20, about fifty-five seconds before Oswald was shot, Lt. Rio Pierce drove a black car up the Main Street ramp as part of the decoy plan. That ramp was normally a one-way entrance into headquarters, but Pierce had to use it as an exit since the large armored truck that was originally scheduled to move Oswald was blocking the Commerce Street ramp. Officer Roy Vaughn stepped away from the center of the ramp way, into the middle of Main Street, to stop the traffic so Pierce could safely exit.

Ruby slipped inside while Vaughn was distracted. He walked down the ramp and arrived at the back of a crowd of police and press only seconds before Oswald arrived.


50 Years Ago Today: JACK RUBY: Lead up to the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald (A synopsis from Case Closed)

[suestorm]

So the main witness and accussed is rubbed out before he can testified by someone who was a police informant with definite mob ties. Hhmmmm

The accused assasin just happened to get a job two weeks before not only "coincidentally" on the motorcade route, but right at the point where the motorcade has to come to an almost complete stop at an unheard of hairpin turn. Hhmmm

The motorcade route is "coincidently" changed to pass where the assasin has a job a day before. Hhmmmm

The main defender of the Warren Commission Posner is a discredited fired disgraced plagiarist. Hhmmmm

The presidential secret service detail is " coincidently" changed a few hour before hmmmm

The VP who ran against and leave st to a hated rival then made his VP and made toothless is rumoured to be off the ticeket in 64 "coincidentally" leaves his homestate as the new President while breaking the law and stealing the President s corpse so the Government that he and another kennedy hater Hoover are in charge of can conduct another autopsy in a Military Hospital that the original Drs find is diff from the o e they did. Hhmmmm

[FindingNamo]

I'm just glad Jack didn't live too see this thread or it would have killed him.

[JohnBoy2]

suestorm, if all those things make you go "Hhmmmmmm", then you know very little about what actually happened. You state each one as if there were something sinister behind them. There isn't. For example, you say the autopsy done in Bethesda contradicts findings in Dallas. Well, the doctors in Dallas didn't even turn the body over. They didn't do an autopsy in Dallas. However, someone who wants to find suspicion, without facts, can do so with just about anything.

[FindingNamo]

^^^ nailed it to the wall

[PalJoey]

Nice post, JohnBoy.

The Hmmm Game that the Troll is playing here is the mark of an essentially shallow thought process.

One can say Hmmm to almost any event and make it seem suspicious, but that does not mean it is: "You say you woke up this morning and brushed your teeth? Hmmm...? Do you always brush your teeth when you wake up? Really? Hmmmm...?"

Does the Troll even know the truth of the "changed motorcade route"?

Hmmmmmm...?

It. Was. Never. Changed.

You cannot take Main Street directly to the Stemmons Freeway. There is a CONCRETE divider there and people driving down Main are directed to take a right onto Houston and a sharp left onto Elm leading to the on-ramp for the Stemmons Freeway.

A concrete divider, hmmmm...? That had been there for years? Oh, really? Hmmm...?

But stupid people like the Troll, with no reading or comprehension skills, and only the most superficial of understandings of what truth is, they see a nugget on a website saying "The route was changed--at the last minute!" And without research or analysis, this notion becomes Reality.

But it was never true. The route was never changed. Taking Main Street to the Stemmons has always involved a right turn onto Houston and a sharp left onto Elm.

That's not evidence of a conspiracy. That's how you get onto the freeway.

[suestorm]

So telling that I am called troll. But I don't name call and insult like those hurling te insults.

Maybe its growing up overseas but I think its naive to just take whatever the government says.
Whatever the military says and take that as gospel despite so many questions.

So Joey you are calling 70% of Americans who believe the government and military is lying stupid.
You are calling RFK who told close to him he believed the Mafia did it cuz of him.
Youre also calling President Clinton who is public in his belief there is a conspiracy stupid
You are calling the house committee on the Assassination stupid.

Must be great to be so much smarter and better then most of yiur country including President s

[FindingNamo]

One day it will write a book called, "I Don't Know Much, But I Know How To Search Wikipedia."

[PalJoey]

Youre also calling President Clinton who is public in his belief there is a conspiracy stupid

I would be if he was but he has never been. He asked Webster Hubbell to conduct investigations into JFK's death and UFOs not because he believed in either, but because he thought that investigations during his presidency might end the speculation.

But you just make shIt up to suit your purposes, don't you?

Bill Clinton is NOT public in his belief there is a conspiracy because he does not believe there WAS a conspiracy.

[FindingNamo]

Ha! This thread gives credence to the studies that say conspiracy believers are mentally ill.

[PalJoey]

Oliver Stone, on the other hand, does indeed believe there was a conspiracy. Or several. Or many. Or nothing but.

Which maybe proves Namo's point.

Also...NOT believing there was a conspiracy is NOT THE SAME as "believing everything the government says."

NOT believing there was a conspiracy means simply NOT believing there was a conspiracy.

[JohnBoy2]

When did believing evidence and scientific proof equate to believing everything the government and the military says? That really makes no sense, at all. I believe what the evidence tells me. I believe what the forensics proves. Nothing else. Every other conspiracy has no proof, just theory. I don't believe in theory.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts and comments, guys, I've learned a lot. Maybe the troll does have some uses. No, scratch that.

How come Oswald didn't admit to his crimes after being captured, though? Simply because he was still hoping to get away with it?

Did he really refer to himself as a "patsy" or is that another myth?

[PalJoey]

No myth, here it is: "They taking me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy."

http://youtu.be/2rBDihVHfMI

But he doesn't seem to using the word in its mobster meaning ("someone accused of something as a cover for a larger-scale crime) but in its original meaning ("someone who is easily taken advantage or blamed for something"). His issue seems to be his innocence, rather than being "framed" for someone else's guilt, as the AHA! OMG! He Said He Was a Patsy conspiracy buffs would have it.

[CATSNYrevival]

Has there ever been any forensic research done on the riffle to link Oswald to the crime? I know they couldn't really do that at the time, but if the evidence remains in a box somewhere, couldn't they do that now if they were able to retrieve a sample of his DNA or a finger print or something?

[PalJoey]

There was pretty much never any doubt that the rifle was Oswald's.

He owned the rifle.

He took the rifle to work that day, telling the guy who gave him a ride that the long wrapped-up package was "curtain rods."

He did none of his assigned work that day.

He left the rifle, fingerprints, the shell casings and the rifle bag on the boxes of the sniper's nest--and the rifle!

The rifle matched to both the bullets and the shell casings.

He was alone on the floor from which the shots were fired.

After he escaped the Depository, he used his pistol to shoot and kill Officer Tippet, who pulled him over to talk to him, and then he tried to shoot the arresting officers.

[suestorm]

Joey. Clinton expressed doubts and ordered all files made public. Much of have still not.

Besdes that, wbout the House Committee on Assassinations that concluded the WC was wrong. You keep ignoring that fact though I've brought it up 3x!! Hmmmmm

What should the 70 + % Americans. Even higher % of people your age who believe it. Are they stupid too?

What about SOS John Kerry?


Secretary of State John Kerry told Parade magazine this week that he had "serious doubts" that gunman Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in killing Kennedy, but the White House wouldn't say Monday where Obama falls on the conspiracy theory.Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/18/208928/obama-clinton-to-mark-50th-anniversary.html#storylink=cpy

Oh and yes the rifle was his. Marina was the one who told Dallas PD about it. And took the fsmous picture of ihim holding it in her yard.

[FindingNamo]

I hate to admit it, but the troll has got it together and put out a series of inchoate arguments in this thread.

#creditwhereitsdo

[JohnBoy2]

What does any of the above have to do with the facts of the case? People, including politicians, can do and think whatever they like. That alters none of the evidence or forensics in this case. Why do you keep posting the same thing? Please point us to evidence or scientific proof of whatever the hell it is you're saying. Who cares what Clinton, or anyone else thinks? What's that have to do with anything? Liz Taylor THOUGHT all her marriages were THE one. They weren't.

[Master Bates]

Did the Secret Service (or anyone) ever say why the limo was wiped clean while still at Parkland Hospital? I think that and the lost evidence (pieces of Kennedy's brain given to doctors/SS agents by Mrs. Kennedy, and I think now the brain itself is missing) in addition to the autopsy cover-up are why so many people today believe in some sort of conspiracy.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, if Oswald brought curtain rods to work that day like he said and was just a patsy, did he ever explain why there were no curtain rods left behind?

[FindingNamo]

I too have always thought it came down to the window treatments.

[Roscoe]

These various conspiracy theories get so outlandish that the idea of Oswald acting alone seems reasonable in comparison.

[FindingNamo]

^^^^ which is why the theory of Occram's Razor is always apt.

[Jane2]

"I too have always thought it came down to the window treatments."

LOL

[TheatreDiva90016]

It was done by Col. Mustard, in the dining room, with a candle stick.


Clearly.

[suestorm]

""What does any of the above have to do with the facts of the case? People, including politicians, can do and think whatever they like.""

johnboy, i agree with what you say here. my point of including RFK, Clinton etc who believe jfk was conspiracied was that our PalJoey trolled me and said I was stupid for believing so. I included some people i assume he respects showing they think like me. so either hes wrong or they are stupid too.