Who do you believe killed JFK?

[Mr Roxy]

Mr Hill is not biased. He simply may have more of a right to speak from a position of first hand knowledge as he was there when it happened.

[TheatreDiva90016]

And more than 50 witnesses said they heard shots coming from the fence on the grassy knoll.

I tend to go with quantity here.

[suestorm]

PAL JOEY. REGINALD AND JIM COYLER. you gentlemen agree and are the most vocal about no conspiracy.

I respectfully ask you to watch"Trauma Room" on CSPAN3 American History.its a long interview with Dr Jones and Dr Mccallum the 2 Drs who operated on jfk at Parkland Hospital.

1. They talk about the differences in what they found and what was in the WC.
2. The differences between their findings and the findings of the Government's autopsy at Naval Hospital.
3. How they handed hundreds of gunshot wounds . The gov't Drs had not.
4The ridiculous Magic Bullet (which was found clean on an empty cot )
5. And Arlen Spectors (who I vented The Magic Bullet Theory) ridiculous suggestions to them.

[Mr Roxy]

Jones is the one I believe who has the book coming out on it

Amazing how the bullet just fell out of his head blood free onto a gurney. Were forensic tests ever done on it to prove it came from the alledged rifle?

[FindingNamo]

Hey! You were wrong about W being blocked more than Obama has been, weren't you?

[suestorm]

""Amazing how the bullet just fell out of his head blood free onto a gurney. Were forensic tests ever done on it to prove it came from the alledged rifle""

If one didn't think the Government could do no wrong one might think it was planted there

[PalJoey]

Were forensic tests ever done on it to prove it came from the alledged rifle?

Yes. The thing about the conspiracy theories is that there is not a single element to them that doesn't fall apart when analyzed.

That said, there were tens of thousands of people who wanted the president dead. And there tens of dozens of mistakes and irregularities in the various investigations. But not a single person has ever been proved to have been involved. In 50 years. Not one.

The real lazy thinkers are the ones who hear about a "new" anomaly (new to them, but after 50 years, nothing is now), and with only the slightest and most superficial of thought processes, they declare "Aha! A smoking gun!"

Clint Hill says at the end of Five Days in November that Prsident Kennedy would not have wanted his legacy to be a debate about how he died. He would want his legacy to be a discussion about the values for which he stood.

[PalJoey]

And more than 50 witnesses said they heard shots coming from the fence on the grassy knoll.

I tend to go with quantity here.

Then why did everyone else (far more than 50) look up to the right rear of the limousine, in the direction of the Texas Schoolbook Depository? And why did the police and newsman who ran to the fence immediately see nothing?

Because the shots didn't come from there and there was no one running away.

[suestorm]

""Yes. The thing about the conspiracy theories is that there is not a single element to them that doesn't fall apart when analyzed. ""

The Warren Commission falls apart faster then a cheap suit. There is no more criticized and ridiculed report in American History

[PalJoey]

And no proven alternative to its conclusion: One gun. One shooter. Three bullets.

All the rest is crazy.

[suestorm]

The govt coverup. They destroyed tons of evidence.

I guess some people will believe anything the government tells them.
Its very Soviet like.

[JohnBoy2]

JFK's head wounds are only consistent with a bullet entering from behind, at precisely where LHO was. Even if there were someone shooting from the grassy knoll (absolutely zero evidence of this), they missed. In frame 312 of the Zapruder film, the President's head fine. In frame 313 it is forward by over two inches, and brain and bone are propelled into the air, in FRONT of him. His head snaps back, after that, and the forensics proves that this is due to nerve damage in the brain, causing his back muscles to tighten, forcing his head back. There is no magic bullet, no head going the wrong way, etc. The facts are the facts, proven by evidence and science. Everything else is a fairy tale.

[PalJoey]

I guess some people will believe anything the government tells them.
Its very Soviet like.

No, it's not. It's not at all Soviet like.

[PalJoey]

Before it's shut down, here's the debate from CNN last night between "Dr." Cyril Wecht, king if the conspiracy theorists, and Gerald Posner, the author of the classic book Case Closed:

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html?/video/bestoftv/2013/11/23/ac-panel-conspiracies.cnn&video_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com

[suestorm]

If Posner is your source thats bad. Hes a liar and has no credibility. He was fired for multiple acts of plagiarism

 More Posner Plagiarism

 Veteran reporter Gerald Posner is a repeat offender. But this isn't the only example of Posner pinching copy without attribution. Slate reader Gregory Gelembuik and I have uncovered additional examples of plagiarism by Posner in the Daily Beast from the Texas Lawyer, a Miami Herald blog, a Miami Herald editorial, a Miami Herald article, and a health care journalism blog. 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2010/02/more_posner_plagiarism.html 

[PalJoey]

You lie as easily as you cut and paste.

[Jungle Red]

If he plagiarized accurate information, that still makes it accurate.

[suestorm]

JUNGLE he used other peoples material. Numerous times. Presented as his own. Thats dishonest. Thats a crime. Destroys any credibility he may have. He can't be trusted.

[Mr Roxy]

If it was not a conspiracy why the shady dealings such as the missing brain, different reports done after the shooting and the silencing of Oswald so he could not spill the beans. Ruby was known to have mob ties and got into an alledged secure place with a gun with no problem. Somebody got paid off to let him in.

[PalJoey]

He used other peoples material. Numerous times. Presented as his own. Thats dishonest. Thats a crime. Destroys any credibility he may have. He can't be trusted.

Are you speaking of yourself? Because that's what this entire board thinks of you.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Ruby was known to have mob ties and got into an alledged secure place with a gun with no problem. Somebody got paid off to let him in.

...but the whole nation presumably wanted Oswald dead at this point?

[JohnBoy2]

At 11:17 Jack Ruby was in a Western Union office and had just finished sending a money gram. On a whim, he decided to go to the police station. By 11:21, he had shot Oswald. Had the person in front of him at the Western Union office taken a minute longer, even 30 seconds longer, Oswald would not have been killed. Hardly a planned event. His sister testified that he was overwhelmed with grief at the death of Kennedy. More than the death of his own parents. On a whim, he decided he would be a hero if he killed the most hated man in America.

[Master Bates]

So, you're saying the person in front of him at the Western Union office was in on the conspiracy too?

[JohnBoy2]

Yes! There's no other explanation.

[broadwayguy2]

Again, I am not delving into whether or not there was a cover up, a plot or anything else. I only want to speak as someone who has spent time in Dealey Plaza and as someone who now lives in an urban environment..and hopefully appeal to some common experiences.
If any of us have had the experience of firing a weapon, even in an open space, the piercing crack will echo off of surfaces and sometimes be hard to place, depending on where you are. If you were standing in certain places, you would instantly be able to place the sound from the Depository and turn in time to see someone at the window. Were you near the 'grassy knoll', you'd hear more of the reflection of sound off of hard surfaces behind you. The sound would be echoed in the Plaza.

[PalJoey]

Exactly.

Today is the 50th anniversary of the day Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.

This is Gerald Posner's account from CASE CLOSED of what Jack Ruby did from the time he woke up 50 years ago this morning until the moment he shot the gun:

Ruby parked across the street from the Western Union station, only one block from police headquarters, near 11:05. He left his favorite dog, Sheba, in the car. He would only be gone a few minutes. At Western Union, he filled out the forms for sending $25 to Karen Carlin. Then he patiently waited in line while another customer completed her business. According to the clerk, Ruby was in no hurry. It was impossible for him to know that Oswald had not been transferred, since there was no television or radio at the Western Union office. There was a public telephone, but Ruby did not use it. When he got to the counter, the cost for sending the moneygram totaled $26.87. He handed over $30 and waited for his change while the clerk finished filling out the forms and then time-stamped the document “Ruby’s receipt was stamped 11:17.

When he left Western Union, he was less than two hundred steps from the entrance to police headquarters. On the third floor, police had informed Oswald shortly after 11:00 that they would take him downstairs and move him to the sheriffs jail. He asked if he could change his clothes. Captain Fritz sent for some sweaters, and when they were brought to him, Oswald put on a beige one, and then changed his mind before switching to a black sweater. Then he announced he was ready to leave. If Oswald had not decided at the last moment to get a sweater, he would have left the jail almost five minutes earlier, while Ruby was still inside the Western Union office.

Now, Ruby walked the one block along Main Street and stopped near the eight-foot-wide ramp way. It was guarded by policeman E. R. Vaughn. At 11:20, about fifty-five seconds before Oswald was shot, Lt. Rio Pierce drove a black car up the Main Street ramp as part of the decoy plan. That ramp was normally a one-way entrance into headquarters, but Pierce had to use it as an exit since the large armored truck that was originally scheduled to move Oswald was blocking the Commerce Street ramp. Officer Roy Vaughn stepped away from the center of the ramp way, into the middle of Main Street, to stop the traffic so Pierce could safely exit.

Ruby slipped inside while Vaughn was distracted. He walked down the ramp and arrived at the back of a crowd of police and press only seconds before Oswald arrived.


50 Years Ago Today: JACK RUBY: Lead up to the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald (A synopsis from Case Closed)