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Possible Infraction which MIGHT DQ Woolf!

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dramamama611
Broadway Legend
joined:12/4/07
Yikes...the article is listed above -- they will meet to discuss the infraction (a pamplet sent to voters without approval) and what, if anything should be done.

I will be so disappointed for them if they decide to DQ the show. It was stunning.

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
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ucjrdude902
Broadway Legend
joined:3/11/07
There's no link.
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jdrye222
Featured Actor
joined:5/28/11
I think there needs to be SOME repercussion... He clearly broke the rules. But those rules should not have been set without clear consequences. I don't think they would be wrong to disqualify the production from the Revival category, but it would be wrong to disqualify its other nominations.

I don't think it should be something that goes unpunished though. And I'm not really on either side (I voted for GOLDEN BOY).
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dramamama611
Broadway Legend
joined:12/4/07
I said listed above as it is one of BWW's articles and is one of their headlines.

HOwever, here is the link.
Here.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
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jeffmiele
Broadway Star
joined:11/6/07
I there are any repercussions for this, which I believe there should be because rules were violated, they should just DQ it from consideration for Best Revival of a Play. Granted I would hate for that to happen as it was one of my favorite shows this year but the producers are the ones, specifically Richards, who are at fault. I would hate to see the actors and director no longer eligible for their awards. That would be devastating. Especially since I really think Coon should, and has a good chance to, win.
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Joviedamian
Broadway Star
joined:11/9/10
Many write-ups on this are saying that this was an "honest" mistake. It may have been, but these producers have been producing for years...I think they know the rules by now...
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jdrye222
Featured Actor
joined:5/28/11
Jeffrey Richards KNOWS the rules. He has had one or more shows up for Tony awards MOST years in the last 15 or so...
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Jordan Catalano
Broadway Legend
joined:10/9/05
What kind of brochure was it?
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Kad
Broadway Legend
joined:11/5/05
This all just seems ridiculous to me.
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Jordan Catalano
Broadway Legend
joined:10/9/05
Did the brochure have money in it?
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jv92
Broadway Legend
joined:11/4/05
WHOOOOO CARES?!?!?!

The Tony Awards should feel HONORED to honor a production as good at ...V. WOOLF was!



Updated On: 5/17/13 at 07:14 PM
Jordan Catalano Profile Photo
Jordan Catalano
Broadway Legend
joined:10/9/05
Yeah but it was a brochure. A BROCHURE.
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Kad
Broadway Legend
joined:11/5/05
An UNAPPROVED brochure.
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Jordan Catalano
Broadway Legend
joined:10/9/05
Those are the worst kind!
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GlindatheGood22
Broadway Legend
joined:7/17/07
If he makes Morton and Letts lose their nominations his penalty should be being locked in a room while Amy yells at him as both Barbara Fordham and Martha.
I leave the room smiling.
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jv92
Broadway Legend
joined:11/4/05
LOL.

It's the Tony Awards. They're nearly as big a farce as the Golden Globes.

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CapnHook
Broadway Legend
joined:5/12/03
The Tony Admin Committee would NEVER retract the nominations for the actors, director, or designers. The only category they could retract is Best Revival of a Play, which is the PRODUCER'S category. It was a producer mistake, and that category would be the only one to penalize.

However, they won't retract the nomination. It's an interesting situation, and it will be even more interesting to see if there is any punishment. My guess is there will be a slap on the wrist, and nothing more.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
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dramamama611
Broadway Legend
joined:12/4/07
I believe the article mentioned another possible "fine" might be to discount their vote(s).
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
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brettarnett
Stand-by
joined:5/2/09
What exactly was stated or not stated in the brochure?
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John Adams
Broadway Star
joined:4/1/13
The Tony rules are not what I would define as "strict". Various rules change from season to season, and the strictest "rule" is that many rules are "at the discretion" of the Tony committee. One interesting example is the definition (or lack of) for "Classic".

What exactly is meant by the threat of "suspending the producers' votes"? Would suspending their votes possibly negatively effect other shows in categories where ...Virginia Woolf is not a contender? (In other words, can the producers only vote in the single, "Best Revival" category?)

I think a monetary fine would be appropriate, as might happen in similar circumstances outside the world of the Tonys. BUT... I gotta say, to have no established consequences in place before an infraction occurs makes the Tony committee look unprofessional and disorganized.
...because Broadway Cares
Updated On: 5/17/13 at 08:48 PM
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followspot
Broadway Star
joined:12/27/11
Let's all keep in mind that the only info on this formerly private, probably very minor kerfuffle now properly seasoned with wild speculations on possible dramatic penalties (DQ Woolf?! Puh-leez) is all coming to us via professional gossip-stirrer Michael Reidel in the New York Post. Aside from a handful of sites indiscriminately repeating the Post piece as if it were hard news, no one else has legitimately reported on this.

"Tracy... Hold Mama's waffles."
Updated On: 5/18/13 at 08:58 PM
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CapnHook
Broadway Legend
joined:5/12/03
A fine doesn't make sense. The proposed punishment is going to setup a precedent. If they fine $15,000, that just tells future producers that they can intentionally break the rules for $15k.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
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averagebwaynut
Leading Actor
joined:8/15/08
This whole issue is fraught with so many problems. Some random thoughts:

-- because of the proliferation of Tony mailings, and shows spending wild amount of money on mailings of different types of merch and printed materials to the voters in years past, the Tony folks tried to put some rules in place to control what was permitted and create a slightly more level playing field.

-- the Tony rules that were enacted allow for a show to send only four items to the voters: 1) a cast album 2) a collection of unedited reviews (essentially reprints) 3) a DVD of the show or of entire scenes intact and 4) the souvenir program.

-- the souvenir program gives the most flexibility to producers in terms of content because the Tony folks can't and don't police what a production puts in its souvenir book. The crux of the violation here is that the book sent out was never in fact the show's souvenir program sold at the theatre. The show didn't have one. This was created after the fact and since it therefore can't qualify as the show's souvenir program, the only other thing it could be is #2 above -- but it doesn't qualify as that either because the reviews are edited down and because it includes editorial content from the cast and creative team.

-- as others have noted, there are no prescribed penalties in the Tony rules and that makes the whole thing vague and somewhat toothless.

-- the assertion that this was "an honest mistake" is baloney. As someone else noted above, these are VERY experienced producers. They just got caught for something they have also done in prior years without incident.

-- per John Adams's suggestion, I'm not sure that a monetary fine works as a solution because money is the one thing producers are willing to spend to win Tony Awards. If they set a precedent of a monetary fine, it would have to be a sizeable sum ($25,000?...maybe to BC/EFA) or else producers may be willing to take their chances down the road.

-- on the flip side, if they do nothing, what kind of deterrent is that? And what sort of justice do the other nominees get?

-- unfortunately, there really is no way to unring the bell here. The voters have the book already. The other nominees don't have time (and may not have the funds) to send out an "illegal" souvenir program of their own to even things out.

-- I'd be shocked if the Committee votes to DQ the show in any category at all -- that seems like a disproportionate response, as no one can prove the efficacy of a souvenir book on voting -- but I'll be fascinated to see what they do, if anything. It does feel like they have to do something.

"No matter how much you want the part, never let 'em see you sweat." -- Old Dry Idea commercial
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John Adams
Broadway Star
joined:4/1/13
>> "A fine doesn't make sense. The proposed punishment is going to setup a precedent. If they fine $15,000, that just tells future producers that they can intentionally break the rules for $15k."

and

>> "-- per John Adams's suggestion, I'm not sure that a monetary fine works as a solution because money is the one thing producers are willing to spend to win Tony Awards. If they set a precedent of a monetary fine, it would have to be a sizeable sum ($25,000?...maybe to BC/EFA) or else producers may be willing to take their chances down the road."

Fines are a very common practice when organizations want to send a clear message that their rules "count". They're commonly used in sports, unions, and government. Personally, I think a fine is a better option than restricting voting privileges because it's unclear as to whether/not other shows might be inadvertently "punished".

For example, if Ernest Lehman (I think he produced "...Woolf") loses the privilege of voting, but was planning to vote for say, Lucky Guy in the "Best Play" category, why should Lucky Guy lose that vote because of Lehman's infraction? Maybe someone can clarify if that scenario would be a non-issue.

The key (IMO) is what averagebwaynut hinted at: the fine needs to "hurt" enough to show that the Tony committee expects adherence to its rules - of course the rules might be taken more seriously if they weren't so "fluid" from year to year. ...AND consequences should be clearly defined before an infraction occurs.

Perhaps a reasonable fine that would be flexible, yet effective would be based on a "percentage", rather than a fixed sum. Perhaps a percentage of calculated box office over a fixed period - regardless of whether the show stays open or not. The percentage should be large enough that it might cause a producer to think twice before gambling on the future of their show.

Yes, it would require some careful thought to arrive at a singular, correct percentage that would apply for all, and pose the proper threat (incentive?) to adhere to the rules. But that's pretty much the biggest issue I see as to why there's an issue right now - not enough thought was put into the rules to begin with.


...because Broadway Cares
Updated On: 5/17/13 at 10:17 PM
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ajh
Featured Actor
joined:5/6/11
This is a potential DISASTER!!! What about my Audience Rewards predictions points!?!??! FML!
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Someone in a Tree2
Broadway Star
joined:10/9/12
Thanks, averagebwaynut, for your detailed explanation. So detailed, in fact, that I'm surprised that you're really allowed to tell us all this...

Surprised and appreciative.

Excited and scared.

Updated On: 5/18/13 at 06:52 PM

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