RENT: Why so much hate?- Page 5

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:37pm

Just to be clear, I don't find characters or real-life human beings less sympathetic because they are human, make errors and suffer misfortune. Per Aristotle, ALL tragic agents miscalculate and cause their own suffering; a random misfortune doesn't inspire the same pity and fear in us.

The only "perfectly innocent" victims (in the theater or in real life) are animals and children.

Updated On: 7/25/12 at 06:37 PM

[TheHappyPhantom]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:39pm

Well, there's Mimi, whom you seem to have forgotten. And, yes, I was considering Collin's and Angel as well. Safe sex was around at that time. The line during the orgy where they say "rubber, bummer" is a direct reference to them ignoring safe sex practices. Also, I'm gay. So, no I'm not associating gay with slutty.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:42pm

Except having unprotected sex does not make one slutty. It's not a wise decision, obviously, but it doesn't turn a person into some kind of harlot. And as for Mimi, the fact that she works as a stripper doesn't mean that the character is promiscuous in real life.

[broadwayfever]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:42pm

@Newintown and the rest of you philosophers.

-You guys are looking way too much into this. Some of you are worse than the critics who said Wicked would never make it on Broadway because they also tried to philosophize way too much.

Rent has been so successful because of the amazing music and the touching story...It's as simple as that. So there's no need to delve into a lot of theory and write a 10 page report as to why YOU believe it was or wasn't a great musical.

[TheHappyPhantom]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:45pm

Yeah...ok.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:45pm

The line during the orgy where they say "rubber, bummer" is a direct reference to them ignoring safe sex practices.

No, it's expressing frustration with what's required to have safer sex. Why would it be a bummer if they are ignoring it?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:46pm

Is your scroll bar not working, fever? Why do these posts bother you so much?

I barely know the show well enough to contribute, but I'm enjoying the discussion all the same.

[TheHappyPhantom]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:48pm

No, it's expressing frustration with what's required to have safer sex. Why would it be a bummer if they are ignoring it?


The interpretations I've seen, make the word "bummer" their way of saying no, they aren't going to use it. And given the makeup of the cast, they clearly not doing something right.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:51pm

"Gaveston understood my post."

What a coincidence. I decided a long time ago I wouldn't want him for a friend either.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 6:51pm

What was wrong with their make-up? Did it get smudged during the "orgy"?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 7:51pm

"Gaveston understood my post."

What a coincidence. I decided a long time ago I wouldn't want him for a friend either.

I merely interpreted a particular word choice of his. I've already said I don't agree with his point. As so often happens, I actually agree with you on the issue of who is "deserving".

Your inability to let go of a grudge--even after you've received numerous public and private apologies--ultimately hurts you more than those of us who are the targets of your unending scorn. I'm sorry you are so unhappy, Namo.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 7:56pm

Bway fever -- the thread exists to inquire about why there are people that hate the show. Would you rather people just say, "It sucks?"

This has been one of the most on topic, thoughtful and interesting discussions this board has seen.

If you can't handle your precious show being discussed, don't read the thread.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 8:00pm

Is philosophize the word you really want to use up there?

[BigMamaSangTenor]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 8:23pm

DramaMama and Galveston, and really the rest of you thank you for contributing to the conversation. I find all sides compelling. And...I actually prefer thoughtful posts but then again, who wouldn't. I am once again rambling. Sorry, anyway carry on and thanks again!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 8:29pm

You are welcome, BigMama, but the pleasure was actually mine.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 8:43pm

I just can't about this "rubber, bummer" line. But I can't stop myself--Namo is spot on, IMHO, and it seems beyond obvious. The line is about the added complication or "annoyance" about having to use a condom, but I think it means they are using them (honestly, I don't even remember who says the line). Why would they even mention it--particularly with that phrase, if they weren't? I've never heard bummer used to mean "no", or "not going to do that". It's slang for "too bad" IMHO, but a begrudging acceptance of the situation (ie "too bad we have to use condoms, but that's what you have to do").

I need stop here. Oh and anyone would be lucky to have such a well spoken, considerate, and fair poster as Gaveston as a friend, online or not.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 8:48pm

As for the idea that we shouldn't care about the characters in Rent or even wanna watch them because "they had their it coming"... I just don't understand that mentality, on many levels. But taking the reality of the situation out of it, and what a damaging view I think that is to have (as is the view of them as victims, to be fair), in the context of a piece of theatre I don't know why it's relevant. But as some others have said, I don't go to the theatre to watch perfectly nice people whose actions I completely agree with--I've never understood why "the characters are unlikeable and I wouldn't want to have them at a dinner party" is a critique that means anything to anyone. I wouldn't want Sweeney Todd over for dinner (though apparently the pies he'd bring are damn good), and he had his "fate" coming too, I suppose, but it still makes for exciting theatre. Same with half the characters in Company--to talk about people who are, like in Rent, perhaps too self absorbed, but not murderers.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 9:22pm

I can't agree with Eric more. Tennessee Williams wrote a great essay entitled, "The Timeless World of a Play", in which he basically argues that if we met Willie Loman in real life, we would treat him just as badly as Howard does. It's only because we voluntarily agree to spend two-plus hours with Loman that we come to see him with more compassion than we would feel if he interrupted our daily life. It's a question of time and focus invested.

I've always argued the same could be said of Blanche DuBois. If she were holed up in your bathroom or mine, we would find her just as annoying as Stanley does; and "I don't want reality, I want magic!" wouldn't be charming, it would be the self-serving cry of a freeloader.

Now this doesn't mean that any individual has to like the characters in RENT. That's a personal choice. But the fact that they have made mistakes in the past and make additional mistakes during the course of the action doesn't make them fundamentally different than any other dramatic characters.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 9:25pm

Oh and anyone would be lucky to have such a well spoken, considerate, and fair poster as Gaveston as a friend, online or not.

Thank you, Eric. It's been rather chilly here of late. But since the original offense was unintended and the ongoing feud is entirely one-sided, I'm interested in how long it can go on.

Whether he likes it or not, FindingNamo and I are much more likely to agree than to disagree.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 9:28pm

For the very little it's worth, I like you both.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 9:44pm

It's worth a lot, Regi, thank you. And I like Namo very much. I'm still hoping ours is a temporary misunderstanding that can be resolved.

Updated On: 7/25/12 at 09:44 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 9:59pm

Choose, Reg. Choose.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 10:03pm

Come on guys, chill.

[ZoeTheGoat]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 10:21pm

I really like RENT. I don't care that it didn't too as much for the gays/AIDS movement as other shows did (i.e. Angels in America). I didn't watch RENT then run out and donate a **** ton of money to some AIDS organization. But it DID move me, and I still enjoy listening to the music. I enjoyed being a part of the RENT community. It was fun. We all know the movie sucked.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/25/12 at 10:57pm

I dunno, I think with RENT the characters are more insufferable because they seem to think they're cooler than everyone else for living the lifestyle that they do. Well, at least Mark does. Maybe I just hate Mark?

You have to remember that most of these characters got HIV before anyone really knew how it was transmitted. I think that anyone with an HIV is a victim regardless of how they got it. I dislike the characters more for their personalities. Like I said, Mark and probably Maureen are the ones I dislike the most, and they don't have HIV.