clinton vs. sanders your vote?

[ErikJ972]

The great thing about Bernie Sanders is you don't really have to wonder where he stands on DeBlasio's platform. His record speaks for itself.

Bernie Sanders to Introduce Bill to Make College Tuition-Free

[Liza's Headband]

....And meanwhile the deceit, lies, and false transparency courtesy of Hillary Rodham Clinton continues....

NY Post: New York Times Report Confirms Second Secret Clinton Email Address

[PalJoey]

Doesn't everyone have a few secret email addresses? 

[Liza's Headband]

Probably. You do. I do.

But did we sign, under oath, a government form asking for us to disclose this? 

[ErikJ972]

Remember...Bernie Sanders vote NO on NAFTA.

 

The Disdain Hillary Clinton Deserves on Trade

[ErikJ972]

Robert Reich: Bernie Sanders could save higher education

[Hank]

I have been through all of this in my youth, 1968, I supported Eugene McCarthy, then the late Bobby Kennedy, and we got stuck with LBJ's vp, Hubert Humphrey who nobody was happy with, and as a result Richard Millhouse Nixon won and dragged the Vietnam war until we finally gave up 1975.

I like Bernie Sanders a lot, but we need someone who can win in November.  Worst nightmare scenario would be Jeb Busch and here comes Iraq war III.  Hillary is not my first choice, and I hope someone else comes forward, but in this partisan nation we live in these days we need to elect Democrats, and I think Hillary Clinton, the Hubert Humphrey of our day has the best chance to win in November, and hopefully we'll move forward from there.

[FindingNamo]

One Mensa member here would call you an insult for not seeing that every single politician you've named is/was EXACTLY THE SAME and would urge you to insure the Jeb victory by talking you out of your way of thinking!

[ErikJ972]

"Worst nightmare scenario would be Jeb Busch and here comes Iraq war III."

Speaking of war...

"Clinton has always been more of a hawk than Obama, whom she served under as secretary of state during his first term. But for many liberals, whose enthusiasm will be important if she runs again for president in 2016, her comments simply felt like code for Bush-era interventionism.

“She basically seems to be taking positions that are very similar to the vision of America’s role in the world that [in 2008] Democrats rejected,” explained Michael Cohen, a fellow at the progressive Century Foundation. That approach, he said, was “out of touch with Democrats in 2008, and it’s out of touch now.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-liberals-109934.html#ixzz3b3X7QWAA

There's one candidate running right now that I'm confident wouldn't drag us into unnecessary wars. He voted against the Iraq war the first time.

[Liza's Headband]

Worst nightmare scenario would be Jeb Busch (sic) and here comes Iraq war III.

Replace that name with any candidate running, except for Sanders, and it would still be true. As Erik has pointed out, Hillary is far more hawkish than many Liberals realize and she voted in favor of the Iraq War... on multiple occasions. 

[FindingNamo]

"Centrist" is the word cowards use to describe their unpalatable politics when they are too damn mean to change them.

[ErikJ972]

"Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Tuesday officially kicked off his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, laying out his populist agenda in a fiery speech to about 5,000 supporters in Burlington, Vermont.

"Today, we stand here and say loudly and clearly that enough is enough. This great nation and its government belong to all of the people, and not to a handful of billionaires, their super PACs and their lobbyists," he said."

I wonder how many lobbyists Sanders invited to his kick off? My guess...none. Unlike the other Democratic nominee.

"Today, we stand here and say loudly and clearly that enough is enough. This great nation and its government belong to all of the people, and not to a handful of billionaires, their super PACs and their lobbyists," he said.

Sanders called income inequality "grotesque" and "the great moral issue of our time." He also listed universal health care, campaign finance reform and climate change as key issues in his progressive agenda. Among the specific items on his campaign platform include establishing a $15 minimum wage, closing the gender pay gap, investing $1 trillion over five years to rebuild infrastructure, and overturning the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision."

In Campaign Kickoff Speech, Bernie Sanders Promises To Fight 'Grotesque Level Of Inequality'

[ErikJ972]

Hillary Clinton campaign to accept lobbyist donations

[Liza's Headband]

EL OH EL. What a shock!!! F*cking sleaze-ball hypocrite. 

[FindingNamo]

[Writer/director Brad] Bird has previously dismissed any Rand comparisons as “ridiculous,” calling himself a centrist who “feel[s] like both parties can be absurd.”

Sounds familiar.

[ErikJ972]

You don't think it's a little ridiculous that the "leading" Democratic candidate is talking about addressing income inequality while taking millions of dollars from lobbyists and corporations who have a very vested interest in keeping the system exactly as it is?

[Liza's Headband]

I imagine Namo will find a way to conveniently ignore your post, Erik, and circle back around to attack me; an anonymous stranger on a virtual message board. He likes to focus on the messenger, not the message, which is a shame for someone who claims to be in high demand as a panelist & speaker. Truly horrifying. 

[FindingNamo]

No, I believe life and human beings are messy and complicated.

I also think people who say the politicians are "ALL EXACTLY THE SAME" are ignoring the important ways they're not.  

I also believe Liza'sHeadrand is a right wing trojan horse.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

circle back around to attack me; an anonymous stranger on a virtual message board

 

I'm confused.  Didn't you spend months trying to prove he was someone you knew very well?

[ErikJ972]

Life and human beings are messy and complicated? That's the explanation for Hillary Clinton's awful record? 

I think it has to do more with unmitigated greed and ambition than life being messy and complicated. The Clintons have benefited enormously from the economic system she half heartily claims she wants to reform.

[Liza's Headband]

I think it has to do more with unmitigated greed and ambition than life being messy and complicated. The Clintons have benefited enormously from the economic system she half heartily claims she wants to reform.

Bingo. 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

I get a lot of the charges people lob against her, but now her ambition is a problem?

[FindingNamo]

Well, you know, I was working with somebody who knows a LOT about how federal policies impact the poor and he was explaining how much work went into changing the rule that federal monies could not be spent on funding clean needles for people who are addicted to injecting drugs.  I'm sure you'll agree that this is, alas, LARGELY a disease of the impoverished.  Despite mountains of public health data that demonstrate that access to clean syringes and supplies drastically reduces the transmission of hepatitis C and HIV (and the astronomical expenses associated with treatment), there was a ban on people who's job it is giving away clean works.

It took forever, but there was a two year period in which that Helms-era rule was struck down.  As soon as one party (I won't specify which just to go along with the meme that it doesn't matter because they are all "exactly the same") regained power in the House, somebody went to all the trouble to get the federal ban back in place.

So, life and poverty and addiction and elections are messy.

But the more of that one unspecified party in power the much bigger negative impact on actual poor people's lives.

If that ban hadn't been back in place, the HIV outrbeak in rural Indiana last month (150 new cases in a population of 4000!) would have been much much smaller. That's all.

[Liza's Headband]

So the terribly misguided, unacceptable policy by the corrupt GOP somehow excuses or absolves Hillary Clinton of her hypocritical cronyism? 

[Liza's Headband]

Maybe we shouldn't talk about the dozens of economic and criminal justice policies put in place by the Clintons in the 1990s that oppressed the poor and minorities, leading to wide-scale poverty and income inequality, which was only compounded by Bush's failed domestic policies, and topped off by Obama turning a blind eye to the big banks and Wall Street cronyism. No President has genuinely served for the people. Every President has, however, happily served their special interest groups & backers. They are all the same two-faced traitors. 

[FindingNamo]

Okay, Ayn.  How perfect for you that your arguments, if they persuade anybody, will get the Republicans elected and picking judges!  YAY!

Which is all another way of saying I was replying to Erik.  I don't care what goalposts you move as you spend all day on a message board.