The Tolerance Trap

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Creepy right-wing blowhards, like Maggie Gallagher, are asking for “tolerance” for fundamentalist Christian homophobia, something I support, as long as the homophobes don’t want to get married

I love that. I'm so tired of the anti-gay folks (usually the ones of the Christian variety) going on about how they "love" everyone, which is crazy to me that you'd "love" people and want to go out of your way to things that mess with their lives (Prop 8, et al). I'd never seriously say I loved someone I didn't know, and I think I probably actually hate these people, yet I'd never support amending constitutions to prevent them from marrying or having children or think they should be fired for their beliefs of anything. But somehow these people think they are some how to moral victors because of the BS "love" they keep professing.

[Mister Matt]

FindingNamo was supposed to LOVE ME!

I got pains.

[WhizzerMarvin TrinaJasonMendel]

There is a price to pay for "normal" and making being gay somewhat mundane. You sacrifice some of the celebration of diversity, but you gain true equality in that you're treated just like everyone.

[FindingNamo]

I'm not necessarily sure I agree that that's the only definition of "true equality".

[WhizzerMarvin TrinaJasonMendel]

Well, I don't think it's only the definition. Equality under the law is different from being treated equally in daily life.

The gay rights movement seems solely obsessed with legalizing marriage like it's the endgame. After marriage is legalized (and fair hiring/firing practices are in place, etc) where will that leave the movement?

I think more emphasis needs to placed on opening minds and changing attitudes for equal treatment in day to day life. Not being invited to my cousin's wedding because of my sexuality made me feel less equal than any law ever did.

[FindingNamo]

I think that's what I was getting at in striving for something better rather than settling for average. Liberation vs assimilation.

[HorseTears]

Posted by Namo:

It's captured for me in this section:
How did we go from gay liberation to gay predisposition? Or even from gay pride to tolerance, immutability, acceptance? Such a far cry from the days of "We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it." The tolerance trap murmurs instead, "We’re here, we’re not really queer but vaguely gayish, be nice to us."

YES! A thousand times yes. While racial and sexual identity are not completely interchangeable, I think there are probably some parallels to this ambiguity some of us are feeling about "progress" and "tolerance" in the lgbt community and what some members of the civil rights movement have felt over the last couple of decades. In certain circles its verboten to even suggest that there is something more valuable than "tolerance". You see it in comments on popular lgbt blogs like Queerty and Towleroad when stories featuring a decidedly queer representation of gay men are presented -- comments like "this is how straight America sees us!", "why can't we all just act normal and stop pretending?", "how are we ever going to get marriage equality if gay men are taking off their clothes and dancing in parades?" And don't even talk about the fact that some gay couples enjoy healthy, open relationships. That drives the "tolerance" brigade up the wall!

[FindingNamo]

I was in another state note my own recently with a colleague. It's unusual for either of us to be south of the Mason-Dixon. There was some sort of anti-gay marriage thing coming up before some electoral body or another and the local newscast had comments on it. Because, you know, there's us with our lives but there's also the unyielding need to give time to "the other side" in order to demonstrate "balance" in the coverage.

So, naturally, they found an upper middle aged gay man to say, "When people find out just how normal we are it won't be as frightening to them. We are extraordinarily ordinary."

To paraphrase the young people of today, my colleague and I were just whatever.

[PalJoey]

Not being invited to my cousin's wedding because of my sexuality made me feel less equal than any law ever did.

One of the best aspects of gay marriage is the revenge aspect: Now you have the opportunity to NOT-invite that cousin to your own wedding, which will, no doubt, be much more fabulous.

[FindingNamo]

But that hinges on the presumption that every homo is getting married, doesn't it?

A friend of mine has a straight woman friend with an 8 year old boy who is a little femme guy and future homo of America. He doesn't necessarily even get what being gay is, but the kid told my friend he didn't believe my friend is gay because he's not married.

[HorseTears]

Ha! Oh, boy. Times are changing.

[FindingNamo]

Right?

Although tagging onto PalJoey's line, I wouldn't mind getting married just to get some payback on a lifetime of hetero wedding gifts!